Rant and Rave Without Repercussion: The North Misremembers (Book Spoilers)

[RGBeyondAsshai]

And ironically could've been handled by Thorne. Sending Sam to train as a maester to replace Aemon and getting Gilly out of Castle Black fit into Good!Thorne or Evil!Thorne motivations and as acting LC he had the authority to do so. It would've added to Jon's isolation on returning, and might've foreshadowed Thorne had negative plans for Jon without Olly nods. Instead we had to get the 'heh, I got some Jon' scene?

Exactly!

So instead of fitting with Thorne's evil plan or fitting with Jon's better than shown leadership skills, it became about something else entirely.

Jon looks defeated instead of hopeful (there aren't enough Valyrian swords and I left the dragon glass you gave me at Hardhome...we're fooked)

It just didn't make sense. Even show sense.

[Daphne of House Vakarian]

Yes, this was weird.

They could have at least shown that people were aware of what happened at Hardhome but Thorne and his cronies were twisting the story, making it look like Jon was lying to justify letting the Wildlings past. Instead no one seemed aware of what happened, even Sam didn't seem that fazed by it.

Also, what is the point in even having Ghost in the show at this point. He is not Jon's pet. Why did they have him save Sam and Gilly but not show up for Jon?!

In this show, D&D just make this magically happen, coincidences,irrational character changes and characters leave their priorities behind JUST to have the story go the way they want it whether the story makes sense or not.

They could have easily squeezed a scene where Jon is in the main hall where he's gathered the NW to tell them about what happened and just show some of them booing or not believing what they hear.

Alfie would have killed it, even with a mediocre script. The thing is, when their scripts are truly lousy, no one can save it. Not Meryl Streep + Cate Blanchett combined into one would be able to save it. And no actor should have to, tbh. That said, I can't believe Theon was a tertiary character in his own arc, and one that is probably one of the finest set of chapters in the whole series.

And if they do go back to the Riverlands next year, and do finally cast some northern lords, I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ARSE ANYMORE. Too little, too fucking late.

Not only that, but what would that mean? Is this how they 'improved those awful books', by shuffling all of AFfC/ADwD chapters as one would a deck of cards, and presto! That's how it feels at times, that's why GoT *is* a Frankenstein.

All we have to do is just ignore the trolls, they'll get bored and leave. :)

EXACTLY.

The Winterfell arc was a mess, only Dorne was worst.

In my opinion they should have cut Dorne and invested in the North. Cast the northern lords (mainly Wyman Manderly) and make a good Battle of the Ice.

Sansa shouldn't be there. She should be in the Vale, even with few things to do. Fusing her character with Jeyne Poole was a bad decision.

Not only it was a bad decision, but it also FAILED to deliver.

Watching Sansa in that controversial episode was painful to watch however I thought her arc would get better.I thought we would see her "empowerement" and I hoped we would at least be able to get the psychological thriller vibes you get when you watch movies where a person tries to escape from the clutches of a psycho kidnapper.It just failed, after her rape.I felt nothing.It was a boring arc overall.Having her in the Vale would be just fine.

I'm going to rant for a minute for our forgotten friends, our missing Frey Pie in particular. It's a good thing the North remembers because the showrunners didn't. There is a tiny part of me that is happy the Manderlys and Alys and Bran etc etc weren't included so they weren't butchered, but there is a lot of "what could have been" with those great book storylines. I would have loved to see what the creative minds of S1 could have done with S5. The North is a horrible setting this late in the books but it has tiny bits of hope. Davos goes to get Rickon. Mance in disguise. Dolorous Edd being Edd. Without those bits of levity and hope, the whole region would be unbearable to read. It was made doubly clear when the show did leave out all those nice things and left all the bleak and then added a double shot of bleak every episode to every character.

...and it's a mockery when they use this slogan.

What North?There is no North, there are only Boltons.All the Northerners have disappeared from the North.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

The real and true knights in this story are not 'proper knights', like Duncan the Tall and Brienne.

Love this and agree. Also adding Davos the Onion Knight.

[Cas Stark]

Yeah, I have to say, it did feel that readers were being mocked with The North Remembers being said by an old servant woman who ends up dead and Ramsay Bolton. They might as well have him turn to the camera and say 'there is no great nothern conspiracy fools'.

[protar]

:lmao:

"Schrodinger's Balon"?

Can this be added to the book snob's glossary?

[Eurybia]

I was watching a YouTube video last night that posited that now that Sansa has run away, they'll have to find a fake Sansa. I almost screamed. If they do Jeyne Poole after making Sansa Jeyne.... (I think it's super unlikely but just the suggestion!)

In this show, D&D just make this magically happen, coincidences,irrational character changes and characters leave their priorities behind JUST to have the story go the way they want it whether the story makes sense or not.

They could have easily squeezed a scene where Jon is in the main hall where he's gathered the NW to tell them about what happened and just show some of them booing or not believing what they hear.

THIS. Would it have been SO HARD? If they'd cut the Benjen bait HYPE from the previouslies, they could have has time for this, and had Olly say, "LC, come quick! Blah blah, wights?!" instead to lure Jon out.

[Daphne of House Vakarian]

:lmao:

"Schrodinger's Balon"?

Hahaha I am usually not good with jokes but I had some imagination today.

Beyond joking though ,we know Balon(cat) was accursed by Mel's leeches (flask of poison) while he is at Pyke which we can't see on the show (sealed box) but we don't know whether he has died (consumed the poison) or not so he exists in quantum superposition until the D&D bring the Ironborn back to the show (someone opens the box to see if the cat is alive or dead) and reality finally collapses into one of the two outcomes (dead or alive)

Lol I can't believe I am using quantum physics to explain D&D's rational.

I can't even...

:lmao:

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Lol I can't believe I am using quantum physics to explain D&D's rational.

I can't even...

:lmao:

You kind of have to at this point.

[Daphne of House Vakarian]

I was watching a YouTube video last night that posited that now that Sansa has run away, they'll have to find a fake Sansa. I almost screamed. If they do Jeyne Poole after making Sansa Jeyne.... (I think it's super unlikely but just the suggestion!)

THIS. Would it have been SO HARD? If they'd cut the Benjen bait HYPE from the previouslies, they could have has time for this, and had Olly say, "LC, come quick! Blah blah, wights?!" instead to lure Jon out.

LOLWUT???????

OMG...

I just...WOW.

........................................... :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I have a question, because I don't remember this part very well, but the importance of having Theon as a hostage/reek isn't kinda based on the fact Balon is dead? Like, he's still Balon's heir, hence, he still can be used to rally the IB or keep them at bay. Hence, the Kingsmoot.

If Balon is alive, Theon's value (after Balon's reluctance to rescue him) is almost zero. :dunno:

[protar]

I have a question, because I don't remember this part very well, but the importance of having Theon as a hostage/reek isn't kinda based on the fact Balon is dead? Like, he's still Balon's heir, hence, he still can be used to rally the IB or keep them at bay. Hence, the Kingsmoot.

If Balon is alive, Theon's value (after Balon's reluctance to rescue him) is almost zero. :dunno:

Shhh!

[Daphne of House Vakarian]

Can this be added to the book snob's glossary?

hahaha I hope Chebyshov and Julia Martell see this.

I'd be honored if I knew I contributed to this glossary even by a 0.001 %.

[~DarkHorse~]

I see it as a mistake to have Thorne be a muntineer. Not only is it a significant departure, but they deprive themselves of one of the few wall characters the audience would recognize going forward.

At this point, I think that is the plan. Notice how they set it up to look like the NW turned on Jon, not just a select few. They are probably cutting Jon loose from the Night's Watch and this is easier to do if most of them are unlikable and against Jon. The only liakable NW brother we have left is Edd, the rest are dead, mutineers or extras that no one cares about. They'll probably be destroyed when the Wall comes down.

I don't think it will play out like this in the books but I can't see Jon remaining with the NW in the show. I think it would be stupid to have involved so many mutineers and then have Jon shake it off and take up being LC again. But who knows, the show have done much more illogical things.

I'm still bitter that they killed off Pyp and Grenn to be honest.....but, yippee, we got Olly. <_<

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The only liakable NW brother we have left is Edd,

A lot of Unsullied doesn't even know who he is.

[Shuvuuia]

At this point, I think that is the plan. Notice how they set it up to look like the NW turned on Jon, not just a select few. They are probably cutting Jon loose from the Night's Watch and this is easier to do if most of them are unlikable and against Jon. The only liakable NW brother we have left is Edd, the rest are dead, mutineers or extras that no one cares about. They'll probably be destroyed when the Wall comes down.

I don't think it will play out like this in the books but I can't see Jon remaining with the NW in the show. I think it would be stupid to have involved so many mutineers and then have Jon shake it off and take up being LC again. But who knows, the show have done much more illogical things.

I'm still bitter that they killed off Pyp and Grenn to be honest.....but, yippee, we got Olly. <_<

you know, I see the writers doing just that: Jon remains the Watch's LC for the good of realm and "forgives them". Or the Wildlings kill them all before Jon is back.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Realistically, in the books, the wildlings are more likely to run away from the Wall knowing/believing Jon is dead. Why would they rally for him? :dunno:

[Shuvuuia]

Realistically, in the books, the wildlings are more likely to run away from the Wall knowing/believing Jon is dead. Why would they rally for him? :dunno:

on the show? They were humanized this season, but can easily snap back into bloodthirsty savages mod for the shock value (imagine if poor Olly gets killed, the audience cares about him so much).

In the books - there would be chaos on the Wall, who knows what happens, especially with different factions of the Wildlings and among the Watch.

[The Northern Scholar]

I'm just not sure why they went the way they did with the Stannis storyline. He'd gotten the support of the Iron bank, he was known around Westeros as the military commander to beat. He is the only guy with an army that came to the Wall and took it seriously at all. Then they just shredded him with Ramsay's 20 good men in one night. Why would burning Shireen be an option when Davos AND Mel made it back to Castle Black so quickly, looking no worse for wear? When they could basically walk to Winterfell in the snow with no rations without looking the way Dany and her Dothraki did after wandering through the desert? (ie a hungry, blistered mess)

It genuinely made no sense.

And yes, Stannis and his horrible, no good, very bad day was so badly done it was almost comical. Men gone. What else? Horses gone. What else? Wife dead. What else? Mel gone. What else? Walking to Winterfell for a siege with no food or supplies or siege weapons. What else? Ramsay's 20 good men cloned themselves into a thousand...with horses. What else? All your men are magically dead in five seconds and you have a gushing leg wound. Fine. Brienne is there to kill you in the name of the true king, your little brother Renly. Hell. This day sucks.

It was like a slap in the face, even to watchers who didn't necessarily want him to end up on the iron throne.

When you type it out like that, the last days for Stannis were absolutely comical.

&amp;nbsp;&amp;

I feel like in the books, LF/Sansa will not retake Winterfell. There is too much other random Northern Lord stuff and Rickon is still around. I do think Sansa's big role in the overall narrative is leading the Vale armies to the North for the big showdown, and that very may well happen after she's disposed of LF.

So another way their deviation with Sansa is self-serving is that now we have a set up where LF gets to manipulate Royce into taking the Armies of the Vale north to 'save her', where normally Royce would likely (especially as set up in the show), tell him to fuck off. But now, LF is the 'master manipulator' at the sake of Sansa's storyline.

LF in the books is obviously a smart guy who has his hands on a lot of plots going on in the realm. But I feel like the show is trying to make him such a better "manipulator" by making everything more heavy handed and in line with that moronic "chaos is a ladder" idea.

Can we talk about Sam? Why did they do that to him? I mean, yes he had a fun speech humiliating Slynt to make Jon LC, but I think they made a huge mistake with the Oldtown conversation. Where is the immediacy? The biggest army anyone has ever seen, all undead and led by ice beings that are nearly impossible to kill are on the way. But Sam wants to leave so Gilly won't look at him badly and so he can learn about history. They giggle about sex and someone enjoying the end of the world.

Sam is not that stupid and Jon is not that bad of an LC.

Why did they change that around? One conversation that made Sam look like a runaway and Jon look incompetent. It makes sense that Jon would want more Valyrian steel or more information on all the ways WW can be killed. It would make sense that he would entrust this mission to Sam--both to keep him and the innocent baby safe AND to have someone at the Citadel gathering all the info on the subject. But instead they turned it into an episode of the vampire diaries or something. Sure the end is near, but are you getting any?

One of those changes I can't seem to wrap my head around.

Yes! My first post in this thread was about how horribly managed Sam's plot was. The "bro-like" conversation about sex with Gilly was terrible. Where was the same who struggled about breaking his vows? It was so terrible.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

on the show? They were humanized this season, but can easily snap back into bloodthirsty savages mod for the shock value (imagine if poor Olly gets killed, the audience cares about him so much).

In the books - there would be chaos on the Wall, who knows what happens, especially with different factions of the Wildlings and among the Watch.

Logically, yes. They were always against this Red Woman and her god. And remember Wun Wun was likely attacked -as they could have seen it- by Queen's men. The key there is Tormund. I doubt he's going into a killing rampage.

But, CREATIVELY, they will be all "Oh noes Jon's dead!!!" and kill the Watch.

[Annara Snow]

I have a question, because I don't remember this part very well, but the importance of having Theon as a hostage/reek isn't kinda based on the fact Balon is dead? Like, he's still Balon's heir, hence, he still can be used to rally the IB or keep them at bay. Hence, the Kingsmoot.

If Balon is alive, Theon's value (after Balon's reluctance to rescue him) is almost zero. :dunno:

Oh, but you forget, Theon was also needed to vouch to the Northern lords at the wedding that fArya is really Arya...

Oh wait... There are no northern lords on the show and no one was at the wedding, and everyone and their mother knows Sansa is Sansa. So, his presence was really necessary... because...