Rant and Rave Without Repercussion: The North Misremembers (Book Spoilers)

[Chad Brick]

What horrible thing did Stannis do? Kill one person to save many? That's not horrible - that's heroic. Anyone unwilling to do that is undeserving of ruling a kingdom.

Dany crucified 163 people for reasons that were hard to justify from any ethical perspective. Stannis burned one for reasons that easily pass muster in terms of utilitarian and consequentialism, among others. The difference? Dany killed people the audience doesn't know, one Stannis killed one we did. If you think THAT makes a difference ethically, you really need to re-examine your morals. Note that Dany's 163 murders were all of men as far as I can tell, implying she was committing genocide, not just murder.

D&D really shafted Stannis. Even if book Stannis does somehow sacrifice Shireen, given the hell he has endured, it is hard to imagine the even deeper hell required to cause him to burn his daughter. It certainly would be a lot worse than two scenes of mild snow, and a well-stocked Wall-Mart where everyone can easily flee to and/or buy food from.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Were the plans for the Bolton v Stannis battle (I won't ever call it the Battle of Ice/Winterfell) ever discussed without either of them being present?

Well the massive fanfic it got does raise that question

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

In fairness, people have been praising Thorne's expanded development on the show since season 1. He gets that speech about how useless Jon and Sam would be out in the wilderness and you see into his psyche a bit more. I think along with Shireen he's probably one of the few characters with more development on the show.

I didn't remember that difference between book Alliser and show alliser in S01. Fair enough, but there's still some truth in my last comment.

[The Northern Scholar]

Can also talk about how the Stark family is totally destroyed this season. It's not "the North" necessarily, but I get the sense that there is, if you squint, a tiny bit of hope still for the Starks in DwD. Granted much of that hope, at least for me, rests on Jon not being dead, dead.

But one thing I like is that even in the face of a whole lot of awfulness, the Starks never forget their family. Arya buries Needle thinking of her family and Jon's smile. She calls herself Cat. She dreams of Nymeria. Jon thinks of Arya before he calls for Ghost and passes out. "Stick them with the pointy end," he thinks. And Sansa thinks fondly of Jon when she hears that he was named LC and for the first time, I think, remembers him fondly as her family and not just her half-brother.

All of that is gone this season. Instead it's a season praising Rambo and his 20 good men and more Batfinger garbage.

Sigh. I sort of feel like it's inevitable. At the very least, I feel like he'll invade; they set that up, not that that means much. Maybe Sansa will actually get to do something with the Northern lords next season?

Sansa. Oh, Sansa.

It's absolutely going to happen that way. Sansa may have a role in helping to woo Northern lords, but I suspect they'll strip away much of her agency by framing it as her being under the thrall of Littlefinger and wooing them only under his explicit orders.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

The thing about Thorne is that normally he shouldn't be on FTW, but they needed known faces, so he had to take part on it.

I don't really praise Shireen's development, since it was done so we could feel more about her burning. I did like most of her scenes, and there's irony in the fact that she's a reader who got burned. That's as meta as they could get, even if unintentionally.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

The worst part of all is now we will never see Brain Blessed as Big Bucket Wull

[Ser Quork]

The worst part of all is now we will never see Brain Blessed as Big Bucket Wull

Heee. - I can just imagine him with that speech! :lmao: And now I'm sad. :crying:

[kissdbyfire]

Brian Blessed would have been a fantastic Tormund as well. The real Tormund, not the fake we got.

[protar]

Brian Blessed would have been a fantastic Tormund as well. The real Tormund, not the fake we got.

Kristopher Hivju would have been a fantastic Tormund.

[Ser Quork]

Kristopher Hivju would have been a fantastic Tormund.

Touché. :fencing:

[Mark Antony]

Kristopher Hivju would have been a fantastic Tormund.

Yeah he's younger than what I had in mind but he would have been fantastic. Tormund was one of those book characters who was made for TV. Weird how they gave him a new dull personality

[kissdbyfire]

I beg to differ. I think Tormund being older is an important part of his relationship with Jon.

[The Lord of Cinder]

Folks need to see this and appreciate... :bowdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOJpBvprRhg

That Vader scene in the end with the Stannis the Mannis theme actually gave me chills. The show's soundtrack this season was barely noticeable, and they killed the guy with IMO the most badass theme! That alone is a shame!

Kristopher Hivju would have been a fantastic Tormund.

So many actors wasted on this show. We got Ciaran Hinds, and he had like 3-4 scenes? And Dillane would have been the bestest Mannis, but instead we got Satannis :bawl:

Edit: But Brian Blessed does look more like my headcanon Tormund. Yet, one cannot but love Hivju's red, luscious beard :leer:

[protar]

I beg to differ. I think Tormund being older is an important part of his relationship with Jon.

Well Hivju is older than Harrington. And looks older still with his beard.

[kissdbyfire]

^^ He's 8 yrs older than Harington (1978 x 1986), not what I meant at all!

Maybe because Harington is so much older than book Jon, but their age difference is negligible show wise. :dunno:

[DarkRose_9]

Folks need to see this and appreciate... :bowdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOJpBvprRhg

The Brienne/Sansa montage when Stannis says "go on do your duty".

The shade is strong with this one. :lol: :lmao:

[Cas Stark]

A new subject, thanks the gods.

Is this only for season 5? or does it encompass the full scope of D&Ds crimes against the North?

Wyman Manderly. Fuck Them. Just Fuck Them. Still he is not to be cast based on the descriptions. Burn in the seven hells.

I absolutely believe LF is going to liberate Winterfell. But, we don't know what GRRM is going to do because we don't know if he really is going to have Stannis lose the battle, he does like those switchups.

Ghost. They took that name a little too seriously on the show. He's a ghost of his former self from seasons 1&2.

[protar]

^^ He's 8 yrs older than Harington (1978 x 1986), not what I meant at all!

Maybe because Harington is so much older than book Jon, but their age difference is negligible show wise. :dunno:

That's still almost a decade. And honestly no offence to Hivju but you could theoretically stretch that by quite a bit. In his full beard and wildling get up he could play 40, 45, even 50.

I'm not really seeing why Tormund's age is important though, other than him being old enough to be a respected and high ranking wildling leader.

[Shuvuuia]

I liked Thorne's scenes last season and I think his involvement in FTW would've worked if they actually developed his and Jon's relationship instead of showing attempted rape and Olly. If they established his motives and made him conflicted and crying during the FTW.

But him letting Jon and Wildlings in and then suddenly participating in the stabbing was 'Stannis-burns-his-heir-after-bonding-with-her' on a lesser scale. And didn't they say that he always was meant to be a bad guy, so his seeming development and even growing respect for Jon was a fluke?

If they cut Bowen, then they should've made Thorne, a grown-up who has difficult relationship with Jon the main antagonist, not Olly. if they like Olly so much he could've bonded with Shireen or Gilly or be friends with Wun Wun.

[Cas Stark]

I see it as a mistake to have Thorne be a muntineer. Not only is it a significant departure, but they deprive themselves of one of the few wall characters the audience would recognize going forward.