Shuvuuia Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't like Tyrion's arc not because of whitewashing, but because of lack of the progress - did his interactions with Jorah or with slavers tought him something or progressed his development? I don't think so. If they want to portray him in a very positive light - fine, but even a good, moral character can have development and interesting story. I won't call his arc this season that bad (like Dorne bad) or that boring, but his banter with Jorah could've been so much better, and it reeked of bros on a field trip. They could've used that time to develop other characters. I don't like Tyrion's ADwD chapters, but he met Moqorro and listened to his propheses, he hit the bottom and then slowly started dragging himself out of it by helping Penny and Jorah. He was put in a humiliating and dangerous position at the hands of the slavers. On the show I didn't feel any real danger from them. I don't think show-only viewers were seriously worried for their fave either. And show writers making the sex slave ask for sex with him was atrocious. I felt nearly as angry as at Shireen's burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh, good. My faith in them is restored. Perhaps they realized late in the season that 100000 shots of Olly staring and glaring might be too much, so they threw the ring in only at the very end...so we will be DOUBLE SURPRISED when the rangers find it next season, right there, glinting in the sunlight, a beacon to show them the way to the khaleesi, in case the giant black dragon is tired again or some shit or they can't follow the trail of the thousands of Dothraki.l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 While I liked the fact that the fat was cut from Tyrion's storyline, the emotional impact of his storyline felt...oddly blunted. While Arya's off getting the shit beat out of her, Cersei's being frog-marched naked through the streets of KL, Jaime and Bronn flirt with death, Stannis is burning his daughter alive because he believes he has no choice, Sansa's getting raped and tortured, Jon's fighting for his life against White Walkers and getting stabbed by his own men, etc. etc., Tyrion's ride appears relatively smooth. He's also one of the only characters to end the season better off than when he began it, and one of the characters whose character arc didn't seem to culminate in some great humbling, like Arya (blinded), Sansa (raped, forced to flee from a psychopath), Jon (stabbed by his own men), Cersei (forced to do the Walk of Shame), Margaery (imprisoned), Melisandre (proven wrong), Stannis (broken, killed), etc. Aside from Tyrion's physical safety, the season felt a lot more emotionally safe. His anger and bitterness towards others in ADWD is lacking. He's not making noises about raping and murdering Cersei. He's upset with himself and depressed, but even that feels relatively mild. He makes noises about drinking himself to death, but it sounds more like elaborate self-pity than anything genuinely suicidal. He's not muttering to himself about how disgusted the prostitutes must be by him, and he of course refrains from violently assaulting any of them or using them to wallow in self-loathing; instead, he's indulgent towards the prostitute he chats up and even sufficiently charming to get a free sex invite. Whereas Book Tyrion's speech to Jorah about how Dany might execute Jorah instead to Tyrion was steeped in malice, the same-ish speech in the show lacked the nasty edge to it. Show Tyrion doesn't really go through any sort of emotional journey. He has no Penny to bring out his kinder tendencies, but he doesn't really need one; even at his lowest earlier in the season he doesn't seem particularly nasty towards others, just morose and kind of a buzzkill. There's no sign of the venomous Tyrion we got a glimpse of at the trial. Moreover, the other characters in the show are far more benevolent to Tyrion than anyone in the books. They already have a high opinion of him, and he seems to be his own worst critic. There's no one reviling him for a kinslayer, for one. Book Jorah is incredibly hostile towards Tyrion, but TV Jorah despite socking him in the mouth seems pretty accepting and doesn't seem to hold too much of a grudge when Tyrion gets him exiled again. Varys handwaves Tyrion's attempt to point out his flaws (murdering his father, etc. etc.) with a dismissive "I never said you were perfect," as if Tyrion's main problem is that he's too hard on himself. Daario reasons that Tyrion should be in charge and everyone instantly agrees with him. Two interviews and Dany brings him into her inner circle, no further questions asked. Even in Varys' last scene with Tyrion in Season 5, Varys waxes eloquent about how well-qualified Tyrion is to run Meereen. I suppose it makes sense that TV Tyrion doesn't really get anything that looks like a redemption arc when he doesn't seem to need one, but it makes for a pretty bland character arc. I dunno whether this is just standard whitewashing to make a central character more sympathetic, as with Cersei--although Cersei had plenty of nasty moments in Season 5 (unconcerned with random dwarfs getting murdered, gets Loras arrested and imprisoned to stick it to Margaery, etc.)--or whether there's some overarching reason D&D are anxious not to sully Tyrion's character in the show. We'll see, I guess. Yep, Tyrion is so whitewashed in the show that he doesn't need to redeem himself for anything. It's like the show runners don't want any characters to actually have story arcs or go through any changes, etc. Sure makes things boring and mind-numbingly stupid! It seems to me they even reversed what little characterization and story arcs they started out developing in the early seasons. It must have just been too hard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Perhaps they realized late in the season that 100000 shots of Olly staring and glaring might be too much, so they threw the ring in only at the very end...so we will be DOUBLE SURPRISED when the rangers find it next season, right there, glinting in the sunlight, a beacon to show them the way to the khaleesi, in case the giant black dragon is tired again or some shit or they can't follow the trail of the thousands of Dothraki.l Yes, they will make the ring much more important than the dragon. The ring is their thing. Like Olly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's 20 Good Men Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Who needs good character development and story arcs when you can have buddy trip banter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I hate Penny. Everything about her story including the needless animal cruelty of killing her pig and dog. I'm glad she's gone, good riddance. But, let's just say that Tyrion bottoming out only lasted about 2.5 episodes. He's been back to his old self since Jorah captured him, outwitting the slavers wherever he goes, winning over Stormborn in 3 minutes, and being granted the rule of Meereen in another 5. This doesn't bother than much though, it's far down on my show complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's 20 Good Men Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I hate Penny. Everything about her story including the needless animal cruelty of killing her pig and dog. I'm glad she's gone, good riddance. But, let's just say that Tyrion bottoming out only lasted about 2.5 episodes. He's been back to his old self since Jorah captured him, outwitting the slavers wherever he goes, winning over Stormborn in 3 minutes, and being granted the rule of Meereen in another 5. This doesn't bother than much though, it's far down on my show complaints. I wouldn't call that bottoming out though, if you compare him in ADWD to Season 5 he's nowhere near as bad. He just seems a little down and he only needs a few compliments from Varys and a random sex slave to get himself going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Jorah and Daario banter will be painful interesting, let's see if we can predict from the obvious subtle signs. Daario was being quite nice, but Jorah was glaring at him. He's jealous. There will be a knock down drag out fist fight between them. Too bad Saint Tyrion can't appear and stop the fight, and say, Remember what's important here! And then they could say, That's right, oh, wise one. But they will pay homage to him, just the same. Good thing he's back there, setting everything right. What would Dany do without him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cornered_Wolf Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 While I liked the fact that the fat was cut from Tyrion's storyline, the emotional impact of his storyline felt...oddly blunted. While Arya's off getting the shit beat out of her, Cersei's being frog-marched naked through the streets of KL, Jaime and Bronn flirt with death, Stannis is burning his daughter alive because he believes he has no choice, Sansa's getting raped and tortured, Jon's fighting for his life against White Walkers and getting stabbed by his own men, etc. etc., Tyrion's ride appears relatively smooth. He's also one of the only characters to end the season better off than when he began it, and one of the characters whose character arc didn't seem to culminate in some great humbling, like Arya (blinded), Sansa (raped, forced to flee from a psychopath), Jon (stabbed by his own men), Cersei (forced to do the Walk of Shame), Margaery (imprisoned), Melisandre (proven wrong), Stannis (broken, killed), etc. Aside from Tyrion's physical safety, the season felt a lot more emotionally safe. His anger and bitterness towards others in ADWD is lacking. He's not making noises about raping and murdering Cersei. He's upset with himself and depressed, but even that feels relatively mild. He makes noises about drinking himself to death, but it sounds more like elaborate self-pity than anything genuinely suicidal. He's not muttering to himself about how disgusted the prostitutes must be by him, and he of course refrains from violently assaulting any of them or using them to wallow in self-loathing; instead, he's indulgent towards the prostitute he chats up and even sufficiently charming to get a free sex invite. Whereas Book Tyrion's speech to Jorah about how Dany might execute Jorah instead to Tyrion was steeped in malice, the same-ish speech in the show lacked the nasty edge to it. Show Tyrion doesn't really go through any sort of emotional journey. He has no Penny to bring out his kinder tendencies, but he doesn't really need one; even at his lowest earlier in the season he doesn't seem particularly nasty towards others, just morose and kind of a buzzkill. There's no sign of the venomous Tyrion we got a glimpse of at the trial. This is one of the things about Tyrion's season 5 arc that I find baffling and angering. Dinklage knocked that scene at the trial out of the park, imo. How often to actors chew scenery like that is such an effective fashion? Why would you underuse talent like that? It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This is one of the things about Tyrion's season 5 arc that I find baffling and angering. Dinklage knocked that scene at the trial out of the park, imo. How often to actors chew scenery like that is such an effective fashion? Why would you underuse talent like that? It makes no sense. The show has spent 4 years under using the talent of every actor on the show except possibly Charles Dance and Lena Headey. And even Lena isn't given nearly the range of stuff that she could be doing if she was playing Cersei "ima so fucking crazy" Lannister instead of tiger mom Carol Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Personally, I just find Tyrion such a bland character now. I didn't really care for the amount of chapters in ADWD that I had to read, but at least Tyrion is an interesting character. And the show travelogue wasn't interesting either; I thought the scenes were lacking in any kind of depth and were generally just there to give Tyrion screentime. I also find the complimentary cock, er, ego-stroking between Varys and Tyrion really tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Boner Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Everything about her story including the needless animal cruelty of killing her pig and dog. They went to a kindly new owner that doesn't eat pork or dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Personally, I just find Tyrion such a bland character now. I didn't really care for the amount of chapters in ADWD that I had to read, but at least Tyrion is an interesting character. And the show travelogue wasn't interesting either; I thought the scenes were lacking in any kind of depth and were generally just there to give Tyrion screentime. I also find the complimentary cock, er, ego-stroking between Varys and Tyrion really tiresome. Somewhere on the adaptation checklist where they use interchangeable characters to tick off plot points is at least one character cock-, er, ego-stroking Saint Tyrion per episode. They used Bronn as a vehicle for homage, no doubt that will continue. Like when he scolded Jaime when they were practicing sword fighting, and when he interrupted Jaime and Brienne's goodbye scene with the gift for Pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's 20 Good Men Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 They went to a kindly new owner that doesn't eat pork or dog. That's what I tell myself about Syrio as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Jorah and Daario banter will be painful interesting, let's see if we can predict from the obvious subtle signs. Daario was being quite nice, but Jorah was glaring at him. He's jealous. There will be a knock down drag out fist fight between them. Too bad Saint Tyrion can't appear and stop the fight, and say, Remember what's important here! And then they could say, That's right, oh, wise one. But they will pay homage to him, just the same. Good thing he's back there, setting everything right. What would Dany do without him? But what about greyscale? Will Daario get it? Did Missandei get it? Does it spread only when the plot demands? I like how when Jorah just discovered it it was already a huge patch, but then it didn't spread at all (I think it's possible for a real disease to act this way, but for tv it's strange not to fuel our suspense each episode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Who needs good character development and story arcs when you can have buddy trip banter? How can you have character development when you're already a paragon of humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cornered_Wolf Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 The show has spent 4 years under using the talent of every actor on the show except possibly Charles Dance and Lena Headey. And even Lena isn't given nearly the range of stuff that she could be doing if she was playing Cersei "ima so fucking crazy" Lannister instead of tiger mom Carol Lannister. I was definitely looking forward to Lena Headey doing Cersei's decent into madness, and the burning Tower of the Hand scene in particular. I never should've fooled myself into thinking it would happen. It is also fairly amazing the lack of screentime she had this season considering she should be a central character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 How can you have character development when you're already a paragon of humanity? Too bad they can't insert homage to him in all rape scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's 20 Good Men Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 How can you have character development when you're already a paragon of humanity? They could've at least had him actually follow his book character at first, then go back to being saintly at the end of the season. Any sort of development would be better than what we saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I was definitely looking forward to Lena Headey doing Cersei's decent into madness, and the burning Tower of the Hand scene in particular. I never should've fooled myself into thinking it would happen. It is also fairly amazing the lack of screentime she had this season considering she should be a central character. I was surprised by this, too. I figured their desire to get her an Emmy would ultimately outweigh their personal fanboy feelings about the character and they would write the story much closer to the book version so she could racket up the drunken paranoia in a couple of epic rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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