sologdin Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Whether one is "exercising their right to free expression" is fairly irrelevant to the question of whether one is engaged in bullying and harassment (in the non-legal sense). Lots of constitutionally or legally protected conduct can be offensive, hurtful and personally and professionally damaging. Social exclusion and name-calling by adolescents in a peer group isn't legally prohibited conduct, but that kind of bullying can still be very damaging and hurtful and have significant consequences for the victim of the conduct. nestor, seriously, which of the following is irrelevant to my critique of the worthless rhetoric of 'bullying & harassment': the fact that criticism of criminal offenses is parcel to the exercise of fundamental rights, or that "exclusion and name-calling by adolescents in a peer group isn't legally prohibited conduct"? am disagreeing, of course, that acts constituting 'bullying [sic] and harassment' are lawful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yeh, its why pitchfork mobs and public shamers have always been dangerous and very potentially harmful to whatever vague cause they are focused on and to any innocents that happen to stray into their crosshairs. singularly unhelpful, even worse than 'bully & harass.' where is the 'pitchfork mob,' literally? agreed however about 'shaming' (another rhetoric that is probably worthless); too gemeinschafty for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is it being a pitchfork and torch totting mob to way we hope this man is prosecuted for his alleged violations of the law? Probably, it's pretty low on the list of ways that are useful to African lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yeh, its why pitchfork mobs and public shamers have always been dangerous and very potentially harmful to whatever vague cause they are focused on and to any innocents that happen to stray into their crosshairs. Luckily we have you here to keep us all in check and let us know when it's okay to be outraged and to publicly shame horrible, despicable people. Oh please, eyenon15, please tell us when it will be okay to be mad about something you deem an outrageable offense again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Luckily we have you here to keep us all in check and let us know when it's okay to be outraged and to publicly shame horrible, despicable people. Oh please, eyenon15, please tell us when it will be okay to be mad about something you deem an outrageable offense again? Nah, you won't listen anyway. You'll convince yourself you are awesome and a moral compass, then start calling me a troll. so go ahead and do what you do and I'll do what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 nestor, seriously, which of the following is irrelevant to my critique of the worthless rhetoric of 'bullying & harassment': the fact that criticism of criminal offenses is parcel to the exercise of fundamental rights, or that "exclusion and name-calling by adolescents in a peer group isn't legally prohibited conduct"? am disagreeing, of course, that acts constituting 'bullying [sic] and harassment' are lawful. To the extent that I even understand what you're asking, I'm pretty sure that the post I made which you quoted in your response answers it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Nah, you won't listen anyway. You'll convince yourself you are awesome and a moral compass, then start calling me a troll. so go ahead and do what you do and I'll do what I do. And what is that? Be outraged at people who feel a sense of outrage? Aren't there more outrage-worthy issues to concern yourself with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 And what is that? Be outraged at people who feel a sense of outrage? Aren't there more outrage-worthy issues to concern yourself with? Sorry, what are you asking here??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sorry, what are you asking here??? I'm asking if what you do is express outrage that other people aren't expressing the right sort of outrage. I mean seriously, you spend more time discussing other people's outrage than actually talking about issues that you claim are more deserving of outrage. You've posted in this thread more than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Honestly, I don't understand why eyenon is so upset that Cecil was mentioned by Jimmy Kimmel instead of Samuel DuBose. The person who shot DuBose has been charged with murder, almost immediately. People were outraged about other deaths because of the official attitude of 'nothing to see here, move along'.Palmer has not been charged with anything. The USA has an excellent extradition treaty with Zimbabwe. If nothing happens, outrage will continue, until the next shocking event occurs. Palmer is just lying low, waiting for things to cool down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Nah, you won't listen anyway. You'll convince yourself you are awesome and a moral compass, then start calling me a troll. so go ahead and do what you do and I'll do what I do. Well I am awesome, but I am no moral compass. And you're not a troll, but you are a hypocrite. As Dr Pepper said, you're bitching at us - spending much much time bitching at us - for bitching about something you don't think we should bitch about. You're outraged over our outrage. And that's mostly just amusing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebla Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Nah, you won't listen anyway. You'll convince yourself you are awesome and a moral compass, then start calling me a troll. so go ahead and do what you do and I'll do what I do. Isn't your MO to argue against the majority for a few pages and then say that the majority view's attitude forced you to take the other viewpoint? i.e. "I support animal conservation but all the SJW's make me now care less about the lion" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Isn't your MO to argue against the majority for a few pages and then say that the majority view's attitude forced you to take the other viewpoint? i.e. "I support animal conservation but all the SJW's make me now care less about the lion" "If all it takes to be a trophy hunter is to think that all this outrage over Cecil the lion is overstated, then trophy hunters can't be that bad!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Isn't your MO to argue against the majority for a few pages and then say that the majority view's attitude forced you to take the other viewpoint? i.e. "I support animal conservation but all the SJW's make me now care less about the lion"I wouldn't say MO, but I definately see a real danger with angry mobs and public shaming, something that's far more important IMO than making sure some individual gets strung up for doing something I don't like. It doesn't take a genius to notice that I'm pretty consistent in recognizing dangers of groupthink, it doesn't diminish it because you think you've figured something out. I don't mean to stray away from the thread topic but you are bringing my "MO" as you put it into the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Guess I'll weigh in since there is no corner of the internet in which I can escape this story. What the guy did was wrong, full stop. Not defensible, appalling even. He should be punished in accordance with any laws that he violated. With that said, I am deeply uncomfortable with the internet being judge, jury, and executioner in a growing number of cases. I'm not really referring to this board, discussion of the event is fine. But this story is all over the fucking place and in most corners people aren't exactly taking a measured approach. This dude lost his business and I'm sure his family is thoroughly freaked out that dad is public enemy #1. Within 48 hours this guy went from suburban dentist to world famous asshole. The internet hit this family's life like a tornado, will destroy what it can, and then move on to the next target. He deserves some shit, sure, but what bugs me about it is - just who in the fuck do people think they are? Paragons of morality? Staunch defenders of endangered species? In 99% of cases - I call bullshit on both counts. Flavor of the day. People will take their shots from behind a keyboard because it is very easy to do so and then forget all about it in a couple of days, but the repercussions for the life of the family involved will go far beyond that. Killing the lion is really fucking shitty, but public shaming is also unbecoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Guess I'll weigh in since there is no corner of the internet in which I can escape this story. What the guy did was wrong, full stop. Not defensible, appalling even. He should be punished in accordance with any laws that he violated. With that said, I am deeply uncomfortable with the internet being judge, jury, and executioner in a growing number of cases. I'm not really referring to this board, discussion of the event is fine. But this story is all over the fucking place and in most corners people aren't exactly taking a measured approach. This dude lost his business and I'm sure his family is thoroughly freaked out that dad is public enemy #1. Within 48 hours this guy went from suburban dentist to world famous asshole. The internet hit this family's life like a tornado, will destroy what it can, and then move on to the next target. He deserves some shit, sure, but what bugs me about it is - just who in the fuck do people think they are? Paragons of morality? Staunch defenders of endangered species? In 99% of cases - I call bullshit on both counts. Flavor of the day. People will take their shots from behind a keyboard because it is very easy to do so and then forget all about it in a couple of days, but the repercussions for the life of the family involved will go far beyond that. Killing the lion is really fucking shitty, but public shaming is also unbecoming. Ty, this is what I've been stumbling around and trying to say. Thank you for putting it into words a lot better than I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 To the extent that I even understand what you're asking, I'm pretty sure that the post I made which you quoted in your response answers it completely. ha! that's kinda the obverse of don't wait for the translation answer me now, aye--the quotidian defense attorney answer of 'whatever it is you're alleging, we deny it'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Not to put too fine a point on it. But there are 7 billion people on this planet and approximately 20,000 lions left in the wild, 30,000 rhinos and 3,000 tigers. Perhaps we need more outrage over dead lions, not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Perhaps we need more outrage over dead lions, not less.As soon as the beast tires of piling onto this ex dentist, I hope there will be some outrage left for the declining lion population. I'm not counting on it. I'd advise anyone that really cares about it to use this precious 15 minutes where the world is paying attention and use it wisely. Is making sure this guy gets strung up really the best use of this time? Trophy hunting is just one of the many ways that humans have directly contributed to the declining lion population. It's humans in general and the massive population growth that killed the lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'd point out that behind the outrage over the murder of several lions just from this one dentist is outrage over such a gross display of wealth and privilege. This is a guy who has already thumbed his nose at the law once before because he can afford it while the average joe spends the last three days of her life in a jail cell after a cop had a power trip during a minor traffic stop. There really isn't much the average person can do to express their anger over this economic disparity save for rage on social media. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't make me angry that this guy can spend upwards of $75k on a single trip just to kill a large animal and that he will likely face no penalty or if he does that penalty will be nothing more than an infant sized wrist slap while Jane the Carpenter will have her life ruined for a minor municipal violation that results in fines she will be unable to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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