Wow, I Never Noticed That v. 13

[Isobel Harper]

You can tell which chapters occur concurrently by the cycle of the moon.

How did I never notice that??

[Walda]

Posted this in the last Never Noticed That thread before the loss of posts.

Too rich, thought Tyrion, too beautiful. It is never wise to tempt the dragons. The drowned city was all around them. A half-seen shape flapped by overhead, pale leathery wings beating at the fog. The dwarf craned his head around to get a better look, but the thing was gone as suddenly as it had appeared.

Drogon?  As per the discussion last night, it couldn't have been a bat because their means to "seeing" (echolocation) would not work in fog. 

Or perhaps Tyrion's just got dragons on the mind.

Very interesting. Pale though - shapes usually appear dark in the fog. (Leathery can possibly be heard, rather than seen, but Pale means he at least caught a quick glimpse of a wing, and fairly close).

I don't think fog (and especially not radiation fog, which is the usual type of fog that forms over the surface of a river in a warm climate - still, cool air over a warm, moist surface. Although the cold breath of the drowned damned, rising from the cold dark Rhoyne seems to produce something closer to advection fog - the pea-soup type of fog caused when (relatively) warm moist air blows over a cold surface.) is a serious obstacle for echolocation. The echo might be more damped, making the bat's ability to locate less precise, but they would still have a much less fuzzy idea of where things were than a human using eyesight. Maybe, an insectivorous microbat would have to 'shout' louder or get a little closer/react faster to catch their tiny fruit flies in fog, but the attenuation of high frequency sound in fog is nowhere near as dramatic as the loss of visibility . 

Not all bats use echolocation, anyway. I live in Brisbane, where there are heaps of flying foxes. They have excellent eyesight, and dark, leathery wings, which can sometimes look a lighter shade of brown, if they are unfurled and the sun is shining through the membrane. This almost never happens, because, like most bats, they are nocturnal, and sleep through the day unless disturbed. That is the main reason I don't think it was a bat.

The paleness of the wing rules out Drogon, as does the fact that Yandry, Ysilla, Lemore, Griff, Young Griff, and Haldon were all on deck when this thing flew over, and none of them commented, even though Griff and Lemore, at least, are somewhat on edge and hyper-vigilant. I would think the sight of a dragon would be at least as remarkable as the appearance of the Old Man of the River, especially from Tyrion's point of view.

Although, if the pale-winged creature was responsible for 

"A wail came shivering through the fog, faint and high.
Lemore whirled, trembling. “Seven save us all.”(ADwD, Ch.18 Tyrion V)

then I suppose Lemore did comment on it.

I had been hoping it was a Wyvern, even though it's too far north. They seem to like flying over drowned, ruined cities, and some have pale wings.

[cocoalover1956]

The Braavosi banker with Stannis is named Tycho Nestoris. It turns out there was a medieval astronomer named Tycho Brahe who has several things in common with Tyrion: very intelligent, lost (part of) his name, married a common woman (though Brahe's marriage went much more smoothly), and left his native land after having problems with the ruler. Brahe was raised by his uncle and Tyrion's uncle Gerion took more interest in him that Tywin did.

[Lommy's Shade]

In AGOT, Daenerys has this conversation with Jorah at the gates of Vaes Dothrak.

“Viserys says he could sweep the Seven Kingdoms with ten thousand Dothraki screamers.”

Ser Jorah snorted. “Viserys could not sweep a stable with ten thousand brooms.” Dany could not pretend to surprise at the disdain in his tone.

“What … what if it were not Viserys?” she asked. “If it were someone else who led them? Someone stronger? Could the Dothraki truly conquer the Seven Kingdoms?”

 

Later in the same chapter she compares Drogo's bloodriders to the Kingsguard.

And sometimes she found herself wishing her father had been protected by such men. In the songs, the white knights of the Kingsguard were ever noble, valiant, and true, and yet King Aerys had been murdered by one of them, the handsome boy they now called the Kingslayer, and a second, Ser Barristan the Bold, had gone over to the Usurper. She wondered if all men were as false in the Seven Kingdoms. When her son sat the Iron Throne, she would see that he had bloodriders of his own to protect him against treachery in his Kingsguard.

 

At this point Viserys is still alive so it's unlikely her son would ever inherit the throne. Yet, it seems she's already planning to put Viserys aside and take the throne for her son.

[Walda]

The Braavosi banker with Stannis is named Tycho Nestoris. It turns out there was a medieval astronomer named Tycho Brahe who has several things in common with Tyrion: very intelligent, lost (part of) his name, married a common woman (though Brahe's marriage went much more smoothly), and left his native land after having problems with the ruler. Brahe was raised by his uncle and Tyrion's uncle Gerion took more interest in him that Tywin did.

Plus, Tycho Brahe had a golden nose (probably brass, really), after he lost his real one in a duel (over maths, at a wedding. Those were the days!)

ETA: Great catch, Amp

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

The Braavosi banker with Stannis is named Tycho Nestoris. It turns out there was a medieval astronomer named Tycho Brahe who has several things in common with Tyrion: very intelligent, lost (part of) his name, married a common woman (though Brahe's marriage went much more smoothly), and left his native land after having problems with the ruler. Brahe was raised by his uncle and Tyrion's uncle Gerion took more interest in him that Tywin did.

Plus, Tycho Brahe had a golden nose (probably brass, really), after he lost his real one in a duel (over maths, at a wedding. Those were the days!)

ETA: Great catch, Amp

Tycho Brahe was such an interesting person, not sure I really see that many similarity with Tyrion other than them both loosing part of their nose.

Tycho was raised by his uncle, he was actually stolen by the uncle who claimed hos brother had promised him a son. Tycho also had a tame elk, which unfortunately died after drinking too much beer at a feast and falling down some stairs!! Those really were the days

 

[Aniel]

I'm really only commenting to get this thread to show up on my new content page again, but when I read the "pale leathery" wings part I immediately assumed it was Drogon (with the mist/light affecting the colour). Or at least a dragon. When did he make his lair though? Do we know? Was he even away from Meereen at this point? Even if it's far away from those places I don't think it's that far-fetched that he might make longer trips every now and then.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I'm really only commenting to get this thread to show up on my new content page again, but when I read the "pale leathery" wings part I immediately assumed it was Drogon (with the mist/light affecting the colour). Or at least a dragon. When did he make his lair though? Do we know? Was he even away from Meereen at this point? Even if it's far away from those places I don't think it's that far-fetched that he might make longer trips every now and then.

From Meereen to the Sorrows (or even from the Dothraki Sea to the Sorrows, an even larger distance)? That's very, very long.

It's not impossible, and I know that

the show makes Drogon show up there for a few seconds

, but in addition to the fact that the creature spotted was pale, and Drogon is not, makes me still feel that that chances that it was indeed a dragon are small.

But that's just my opinion

[Lost Melnibonean]

You can tell which chapters occur concurrently by the cycle of the moon.

How did I never notice that??

Paying attention to the cycle of the moon all helps you place a few chapters in time  relation to other chapters. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

As Theon begins to hunt Bran, he describes the Wolfswood . . .

Wisps of pale mist threaded between the trees. Sentinels and soldier pines grew thick about here, and there was nothing as dark and gloomy as an evergreen forest. The ground was uneven, and the fallen needles disguised the softness of the turf and made the footing treacherous for the horses, so they had to go slowly.

Theon IV, Clash 50

Because of this . . .

How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one. Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear.

The Mystery Knight

. . . I’m always looking for signs of Bloodraven when I reread “mist.” I’m not suggesting that Bloodraven is in every mist the author describes for us, but we have to keep our (third) eye open for these clues. Here, I was doubting that the wisps of pale mist (which Catelyn told us, in Catelyn IV, Clash 33, were called “morning ghosts” by Old Nan), were intended for anything but description, and I let it go.

Later, came across this . . .

"The wolves had to come out of the stream somewhere."

"No doubt they did. Upstream or down. We keep on, we'll find the place, but which way?"

"I never knew a wolf to run up a streambed for miles," said Reek. "A man might. If he knew he was being hunted, he might. But a wolf?"

Yet Theon wondered. These beasts were not as other wolves. I should have skinned the cursed things.

 Theon IV, Clash 50

Clearly, the author was setting up the reveal that Bran had doubled back and was hiding in the Winterfell crypts. But he was also suggesting to us that the direwolves could not have intended to disguise their trail without some sort of guidance. Clearly, none of Bran’s party remained with the direwolves, so I checked Bran VIII, Clash 69, where Bran tells us that his third eye had finally open, allowing him to go beyond mere wolf dreams and actually warg Summer, and I confirmed that happened while they hid in the dark. That suggests that it did not happen soon enough to allow Bran to cause Summer to run up a streambed for miles, the night and morning of their escape.

And then I recalled the wisps of pale mist Theon observed as he set out.

And the next time someone quotes The George’s assertion that they’re just words, recall this . . .

There were wonders here as well. He had seen sunlight flashing on icy thin waterfalls as they plunged over the lips of sheer stone cliffs, and a mountain meadow full of autumn wildflowers, blue coldsnaps and bright scarlet frostfires and stands of piper's grass in russet and gold. He had peered down ravines so deep and black they seemed certain to end in some hell, and he had ridden his garron over a wind-eaten bridge of natural stone with nothing but sky to either side. Eagles nested in the heights and came down to hunt the valleys, circling effortlessly on great blue-grey wings that seemed almost part of the sky. Once he had watched a shadowcat stalk a ram, flowing down the mountainside like liquid smoke until it was ready to pounce.

Jon VI, Clash 51

. . .  and ask yourself whether Jon Snow’s musing about a blue flower and flower named for fire was just a coincidence. 

Black and Green

Lord Stannis himself was still on the march, but his vanguard had appeared two nights ago during the black of the moon. King's Landing had woken to the sight of their tents and banners. They were five thousand, Sansa had heard, near as many as all the gold cloaks in the city. They flew the red or green apples of House Fossoway, the turtle of Estermont, and the fox-and-flowers of Florent, and their commander was Ser Guyard Morrigen, a famous southron knight who men now called Guyard the Green. His standard showed a crow in flight, its black wings spread wide against a storm-green sky. But it was the pale yellow banners that worried the city. Long ragged tails streamed behind them like flickering flames, and in place of a lord's sigil they bore the device of a god: the burning heart of the Lord of Light.

[cocoalover1956]

The Red Keep and Castle Black are directly connected by the Kingsroad, of which they're both the ends. Ties well into the Night's Watch/Kingsguard connections.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The Red Keep and Castle Black are directly connected by the Kingsroad, of which they're both the ends. Ties well into the Night's Watch/Kingsguard connections.

And black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Red Keep and Castle Black are directly connected by the Kingsroad, of which they're both the ends. Ties well into the Night's Watch/Kingsguard connections.

The Kingsroad goes further south than KL. KL is not the end.

[cocoalover1956]

The Kingsroad goes further south than KL. KL is not the end.

Oh you're right, my bad.

[Lost Melnibonean]

 

The sky was a gloom of cloud, the woods dead and frozen. Roots grabbed at Theon's feet as he ran, and bare branches lashed his face, leaving thin stripes of blood across his cheeks. He crashed through heedless, breathless, icicles flying to pieces before him. Mercy, he sobbed. From behind came a shuddering howl that curdled his blood. Mercy, mercy.

Theon V, Clash 53

Compare this opening of Theon's nightmare following the murder of the miller's boys to what Theon must have gone through when he attempted to escape the Dreadfort. Oh, and note that Ramsay is in the room with him when he wakes. And he also dreamed about havingbhis manhood gnawed off.

Theon thinks about "mercy" a lot here. Perhaps Arya "Mercy" will have the chance to slay him. 

ETA

Wow, I never noticed that Ser Brynden of House Tully of Riverrun, called the Blackfish, Warden of the Southern Marches, former Knight of the Bloody Gate, and super scout extraordinaire, had never seen Moat Cailin at the northern boundary of the Riverlands, and was surprised to see it was a ruin. 

[Isobel Harper]

Aurane, who looks like Rhaegar, is currently the same age as Rhaegar was during the Harrenhal tourney.

Wylla, the out-spoken Arya (and Lyanna) parallel is about 7-8 years younger than him, like Lyanna was to Rhaegar.

Arya and Aegon (or 18 year old (f)Aegon?) are also 7-8 years apart.

Not sure if this means anything.

ETA:
Arianne is 24 (born in 276), the same age that Rhaegar was when he died.  Not sure if this is significant either.

[Richard Writhen]

I just read The Rogue Prince for the first time, and the actual depth of HPL influence is more profound than I had thought. Leng and K'dath are actually used as the names of places in Essos ...

 

 

I had recognized The Drowned God as cthulhuesque of course ...

[SerLinginBerry]

Just thinking, lots of posters seem to think that THE dance with dragons of A Dance with Dragons hasn't happened yet. Could it be another fight/battle being referred to as a dance? Waymar Royce famously says, "Dance with me then" when engaging the Other. If the battle in the arena in Meereen is thought of as a dance, couldn't Daenerys and Drogon be the dragons?

Also, could Sansa have actually been kissed by The Hound and in her distress gotten mixed up? Still an unreliable narrator angle, but just reversed...that was a distressing situation for her, she could have not been so concerned with details while the battle raged.

[Roddy Darwin]

Just thinking, lots of posters seem to think that THE dance with dragons of A Dance with Dragons hasn't happened yet. Could it be another fight/battle being referred to as a dance? Waymar Royce famously says, "Dance with me then" when engaging the Other. If the battle in the arena in Meereen is thought of as a dance, couldn't Daenerys and Drogon be the dragons?

Absolutely. Everybody doesn't buy the Dance 2.0 thing.

Another way to look at it is that in ADwD, a lot of "dragons" are going around doing their thing (dancing, sorta), and the whole book's storyline is driven by their actions: Jon at the Wall, Dany in Slaver's Bay, fAegon (and Tyrion if you're into that) in near-Essos, Bloodraven Beyond-the-Wall, and Mel if you believe yolkboy's theory on her true identity.

Which especially makes sense imo when you think of the title as opposed to that of Feast, where no character with a Targ heritage played a leading role.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Just thinking, lots of posters seem to think that THE dance with dragons of A Dance with Dragons hasn't happened yet. Could it be another fight/battle being referred to as a dance? Waymar Royce famously says, "Dance with me then" when engaging the Other. If the battle in the arena in Meereen is thought of as a dance, couldn't Daenerys and Drogon be the dragons?

Also, could Sansa have actually been kissed by The Hound and in her distress gotten mixed up? Still an unreliable narrator angle, but just reversed...that was a distressing situation for her, she could have not been so concerned with details while the battle raged.

It's not that the title of the book makes everyone suspect that there has to be a Dance 2.0. I think that comes more from one of the sample chapters from Winds:

 

From Arianne I

It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate. "It is dragons."

"Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don’t be mad."

"I’m not. They’re coming."

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"

Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

And of course due to the ssm in which GRRM discussed it shortly.