Avlonnic Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 But there's not one statement, express or implied, in the text that skinchanging is limited to first men, is there? Nope but everyone's who is a skinchanger is mostly First Men. It's something that's been associated with the First Men. This is a fascinating topic for conjecture. The First Men came from across the sea so theoretically others from Essos/other lands might have the potential to skinchange. One example that jumps to mind is the theory (suggested by someone else whose name I cannot locate) that the Dothraki are, or were at one time, skinchangers of horses. Jorah notes that the Dothraki are better riders than any knight. Dany learns that a khal may share everything with his bloodriders, including his khaleesi, but a khal never share his horse (Dany is relieved Drogo does not share her.) Interestingly, the horse is sacrificed at the khal's death 'to accompany him into the afterlife.' This has the secondary benefit of preventing anyone else from skinchanging an animal which might contain the life essence of the khal in his 'second life'. (Examples of appropriated bonded familiars of deceased skinchangers: Varamyr takes Orell's eagle and detects a remnant of Orell's essence within the bird. In BR's cave, Bran skinchanges a raven and perceives the spirit of a previous skinchanger - BR confirms that all of the cave's ravens carry a remnant spirit.) There are legends of other populations that skinchange, although we've not seen them in the books (yet?) For example some are said to skinchange sea creatures. It is suspected that rumors regarding people who 'turn into animals' (like bats, monkeys, krakens, and so on) may actually be referring to skinchanging rather transmogrification. ETA: clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 This is a fascinating topic for conjecture. The First Men came from across the sea so theoretically others from Essos/other lands might have the potential to skinchange. One example that jumps to mind is the theory (suggested by someone else whose name I cannot locate) that the Dothraki are, or were at one time, skinchangers of horses. Jorah notes that the Dothraki are better riders than any knight. Dany learns that a khal may share everything with his bloodriders, including his khaleesi, but a khal never share his horse (Dany is relieved Drogo does not share her.) Interestingly, the horse is sacrificed at the khal's death 'to accompany him into the afterlife.' This has the secondary benefit of preventing anyone else from skinchanging an animal which might contain the life essence of the khal in his 'second life'. (Examples of appropriated bonded familiars of deceased skinchangers: Varamyr takes Orell's eagle and detects a remnant of Orell's essence within the bird. In BR's cave, Bran skinchanges a raven and perceives the spirit of a previous skinchanger - BR confirms that all of the cave's ravens carry a remnant spirit.) There are legends of other populations that skinchange, although we've not seen them in the books (yet?) For example some are said to skinchange sea creatures. It is suspected that rumors regarding people who 'turn into animals' (like bats, monkeys, krakens, and so on) may actually be referring to skinchanging rather transmogrification. ETA: clarification Some people have put forth the notion that the First Men (at least some of them) interbred with the CotF and that is why and where some of the families picked up Green Dreamers, Green Seers, and Skinchanging. One good example might be Garth Greenhand's legendary son, Brandon of the Bloody Blade (the ancestor or father of Brandon the Builder), a bloody sword has been used figuratively in the series for a bloody prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Egeman Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Who says he's reading it for the first time ? He's just destroying it, maybe because he knows he will be leaving Harrenhal soon. And Fat Walda's letters are the way Walder Frey, not Tywin, uses to communicate with Roose. For the Walda letters, I thought the plan would go from Tywin to Walder to Roose. A letter from King's Landing to Harrenhal might raise questions among other Northnerners who accompany Roose, whereas everyone in the Twins are Freys. By timing I meant Tywin leaving the book would be too early for Bolton's betrayel, IMO. We do not know when Roose turned cloak, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 By timing I meant Tywin leaving the book would be too early for Bolton's betrayel, IMO. We do not know when Roose turned cloak, though.Well, maybe the book WAS the proposition for betrayal from Tywin. Roose sends Tallhart and Glover to Duskendale then burns the book in the same Arya chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 "And yet you sit there grinning like a harvest-day pumpkin?"Tyrion VI, Clash 25 Is this an allusion to Jack o' lanterns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Tyrion VI, Clash 25 Is this an allusion to Jack o' lanterns? I think so, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Well, maybe the book WAS the proposition for betrayal from Tywin. Roose sends Tallhart and Glover to Duskendale then burns the book in the same Arya chapter. There is a big problem with the book theory. Roose recieves the from Walda and immediately sends the dispatch to Tallhart to put Darry to the sword, meet up with Glover and attack Duskendale in Robb's name (which we later learn that it was on his order). He then goes hunting wolves and after his return he reads the book and then burns it, all later in the evening. For the Walda letters, I thought the plan would go from Tywin to Walder to Roose. A letter from King's Landing to Harrenhal might raise questions among other Northnerners who accompany Roose, whereas everyone in the Twins are Freys. By timing I meant Tywin leaving the book would be too early for Bolton's betrayel, IMO. We do not know when Roose turned cloak, though. Raven mail works in a manner similar to homing pigeons, they fly from wherever they are taken back to one point (the rare raven can go to two places). So it's most likely that the ravens are likely banded for their destination, nothing would tell you where the raven came from except for seals or names on the messages themselves. Also note that by this time Qyburn is the employ of Roose and he is handling the ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Slayer Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Still doesn't explain why the corpses are being found at the same time but thanks for the feedback. I don't think he was implying that they wash up at the same time, simply that regardless of name or affiliation, they are buried side by side. As for the actual question - I do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spark of House Spark Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Are any of the anthologies which contain the D&E stories available on Kindle in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Are any of the anthologies which contain the D&E stories available on Kindle in the UK? No need to purchase the anthologies. A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is scheduled for release on 6 October according to Amazon UK. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knight-Seven-Kingdoms-Song-Prequel/dp/0007507674 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spark of House Spark Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 No need to purchase the anthologies. A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is scheduled for release on 6 October according to Amazon UK. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knight-Seven-Kingdoms-Song-Prequel/dp/0007507674 I know that they are coming out as one book, but having read rogues and dangerous women I was introduced to other authors whose work I have enjoyed, besides that, there are only 3 stories in akot7k, there are 10 times as many in the three anthologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I know that they are coming out as one book, but having read rogues and dangerous women I was introduced to other authors whose work I have enjoyed, besides that, there are only 3 stories in akot7k, there are 10 times as many in the three anthologies. The last time I checked Amazon UK, Legends, Legends 2 and Warriors were not available on kindle. Dreamsongs Vol 2 which contains THK is available on kindle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The dragon tale, not the egg tale, is very old. Probably a couple of 1000 at least if not dating back 8K. Its noted in the book that the crypts are in bad shape and the lower parts inaccessible. Its also noted that the castle is a mishmash of styles so parts were added at different times and things built over etc. The caverns could simply have been inaccessible for 1000s of years. Regardless, magma and sulphur gas and what not isn't an environment people can just go poking around in. This is all true, but dragons presumably can't survive in such conditions either: they will probably be unable to breathe in sulphur fumes (basic biology), and although they are heat-resistant they can still burn (such as in the Doom) in hot enough temperatures, for example near magma. The crypts could easily have caved in over time, especially as the tunnels were carved out. Besides, I don't think it's plausible that a dragon has lain dormant deep under Winterfell for thousands of years, for two main reasons: 1) how could the dragon sustainably heat these huge quantities of water continuously for thousands of years, and 2) surely the dragon would have died from lack of food or space. The link below leads to a webpage with an excellent hypothesis for the hot springs of Winterfell: http://web.stanford.edu/group/anthropocene/cgi-bin/wordpress/the-rise-of-the-black-mountains-60-80-mya/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spark of House Spark Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The last time I checked Amazon UK, Legends, Legends 2 and Warriors were not available on kindle. Dreamsongs Vol 2 which contains THK is available on kindle. Thanks. I wasn't sure if they had been published under a different title in the UK but never mind. Were they ever available here or have they been withdrawn to boost sales of the new book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thanks. I wasn't sure if they had been published under a different title in the UK but never mind. Were they ever available here or have they been withdrawn to boost sales of the new book? Couldn't say. I found Legends and Warriors on kindle at Amazon.com. Whenever I checked Amazon UK these titles, except for Dreamsongs Vol. 2, where not available on kindle but are available in hardcover and paperback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 After bringing Daenerys and hervparty to Qarth with Xaro and Quaithe, Pyat gave her "a jar of ointment that he swore would let her see the spirits of the air." WTF? Do we see this again? Is this a Checkov's gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 ^Perhaps that is how the worlocks helped Euron with his wide swing out to sea to hit the Shields by surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 ^Perhaps that is how the worlocks helped Euron with his wide swing out to sea to hit the Shields by surprise?So maybe it allows a sorcerer to practice aeromancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We don't have a lot to go on here but its awfully coincidental that we have a warlock saying he has a liquid that will allow you to see air spirits and then see worlocks utilize strange/unknown of wind patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We don't have a lot to go on here but its awfully coincidental that we have a warlock saying he has a liquid that will allow you to see air spirits and then see worlocks utilize strange/unknown of wind patterns.And I've seen it said they played a role in the storm during which Balon died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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