Rant & Rave without repercussion S 5/S 6 speculation continued [book and show spoilers]

[The Fattest Leech]

But why would he trust Royce that much? Unless he either knows Royce extremely well, or doesn't care about being Regent of the Vale, because he's just handed Royce his ticket to taking over. That said it makes more sense than the Sansa thing.

That seems to be the problem. One of the biggest ones at least.

In the previous season, the LD arrive at the Eryie after Lysa is killed. They do not trust Petyr very much and he has to persuade the into trusting him. In the books he does this by asking for time and then later holding a tourney. I don't think Petyr really cares about Robin all that much. He is probably truly plotting against him in the books anyway. It seems this scene is a combo of that story line. There is mention of how Robin "fights like a girl with palsy" and LF is like, "whatever, I'm outta here."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI3dpc1Qj2c

[JonCon's Red Beard]

In the books, it's very obvious that the LD don't trust Littlefinger. Even those he believes to be loyal to him because they've been bribed are in doubt for us readers. I mean, that's kinda the point of his current arc: he's very sure he had them in his pockets but we, as readers, have reasons to doubt and believe he shouldn't be so sure.

The only one we know for sure what she thinks is Sansa and despite she's grown a lot, she still hasn't completely considered the option of the Vale Lords overplaying LF. She truly believes he's dominating the situation with his tricks when it's more likely LF will be defeated by the lords having honour and remembering Ned Stark and doing it for his girl and of course, trying to protect Lord Arryn's only son. (I'm sure they aren't stupid to believe that Marillion killed Lysa). And of course, the books have a lot of hints for Royce being loyal to the Starks, for whatever reason.

I think that's kinda what Sansa's arc will be: honour/love > tricks and games.

In the show, I really don't know what they're doing. Sansa is the one who overplayed LF with the power of her cleavage and got him on her pocket because she saved his ass. She was, allegedly, playing the game the Lords and LF were playing.

In the same way, the Lords are there risking their necks protecting Sansa but doing it anyway. Either because they cared for Ned or because they believe this will be politically relevant some day.

Next season, Royce was like "whatever, Baelish: take the girl, don't care. I keep the kid that actually matters. Please, don't come back. Ah, have some soldiers, bye".

 

[Colonel Green]

The only one we know for sure what she thinks is Sansa and despite she's grown a lot, she still hasn't completely considered the option of the Vale Lords overplaying LF. She truly believes he's dominating the situation with his tricks when it's more likely LF will be defeated by the lords having honour and remembering Ned Stark and doing it for his girl and of course, trying to protect Lord Arryn's only son. (I'm sure they aren't stupid to believe that Marillion killed Lysa). And of course, the books have a lot of hints for Royce being loyal to the Starks, for whatever reason.

I don't believe that at all.  Littlefinger isn't going to be done in by a secret conspiracy of minor characters; he's Sansa's antagonist, and it will ultimately come down to her decisions.  Theories about how the LD are all secretly playing Littlefinger and that he's on the verge of defeat are wishful thinking, in my opinion.

[Le Cygne]

And a RAPIST. Which is the opposite of Book!Jaime!

And welcome, Lord Davros! 

Oh, yes, how could I forget that. Because it's not like people have a weak spot or a strong spot that's consistent or anything.

If you do one thing bad, you can do anything bad. If you do one thing good, and then another similar thing, and then another similar thing, it's not like that MEANS something to you or anything. It's all random.

Like wanting to save the queen from rape, and wanting to save Brienne from rape, and wanting to save Pia from rape. I'm sure the author who meticulously repeats things that are important wrote that by chance.

[The Fattest Leech]

 

The only one we know for sure what she thinks is Sansa and despite she's grown a lot, she still hasn't completely considered the option of the Vale Lords overplaying LF. She truly believes he's dominating the situation with his tricks when it's more likely LF will be defeated by the lords having honour and remembering Ned Stark and doing it for his girl and of course, trying to protect Lord Arryn's only son. (I'm sure they aren't stupid to believe that Marillion killed Lysa). And of course, the books have a lot of hints for Royce being loyal to the Starks, for whatever reason.

I believe it could possible have something to do with them sharing blood a few generations back. Some even have the 'Stark Looks". Waymar Royce does and this is quite possibly why he was targeted by the Others in the first prologue to the first book. But that is a whole other, detailed topic 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I don't believe that at all.  Littlefinger isn't going to be done in by a secret conspiracy of minor characters; he's Sansa's antagonist, and it will ultimately come down to her decisions.  Theories about how the LD are all secretly playing Littlefinger and that he's on the verge of defeat are wishful thinking, in my opinion.

It doesn't have to be exclusive

[Le Cygne]

It's very obvious they don't trust LF. And they suspect Sansa, too.

Myranda asking "How little is it" is a big clue. And the 20 questions she asked to trip up Sansa. After even Sansa notes, she came up the mountain just to go down again. And she tells her, she's there to find out her secrets.

[TepidHands]

It's very obvious they don't trust LF. And they suspect Sansa, too.

Myranda asking "How little is it" is a big clue. And the 20 questions she asked to trip up Sansa. After even Sansa notes, she came up the mountain just to go down again. And she tells her, she's there to find out her secrets.

THAT Myranda I'd like to have seen. And Mya.

Sigh.

 

[Le Cygne]

Now that would have been good. It's about time for LF to be tripped up. He's done too many bad things to too many people, and a lot of them are in striking distance. And Sansa has been his captive for too long, it's static.

Books and show have gone down different roads, there's no way the two can jive at this point. The show is not even telling actual stories at this point, just a bunch of disconnected vignettes, with completely different characters.

"It depends what you mean by the end. In addition to many small I have twelve main characters with twelve different endings, and not all of these will have the same end on TV as in the books. But David and Dan and I have had several discussions around this over the years, and they know the main outlines of the story. So I suppose it is the same person who is going to sit on the iron throne eventually."

http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2015/06/na-kan-det-bli-darlig-stemning/ 

(here's a better translation)

[Colonel Green]

It doesn't have to be exclusive

If the LD have been playing Littlefinger for a fool, there's not really much room for her to do anything of consequence.

It's about time for LF to be tripped up

No, it's really not.  If the bridging books hadn't been written, we'd have been literally picking up with Baelish right after he was revealed to be the chief orchestrator of the events that led to the civil war.  He has a way to rise yet.

[Le Cygne]

And of course, the books have a lot of hints for Royce being loyal to the Starks, for whatever reason.

One I particularly like here, of course. "The Lord of Runestone stood as tall as the Hound."

Also it's ironic that in her book story, she thinks Sandor is there to save her from rape once again, with Marillion. So she has a near miss, but with story relevance. It's a way to show how much she wishes Sandor was there and trusts him.

But on the show, she's just raped.

Great story, guys.

[Davros Seaworth]

And a RAPIST. Which is the opposite of Book!Jaime!

And welcome, Lord Davros! 

That too, and thanks.

 

In the books, it's very obvious that the LD don't trust Littlefinger. Even those he believes to be loyal to him because they've been bribed are in doubt for us readers. I mean, that's kinda the point of his current arc: he's very sure he had them in his pockets but we, as readers, have reasons to doubt and believe he shouldn't be so sure.

The only one we know for sure what she thinks is Sansa and despite she's grown a lot, she still hasn't completely considered the option of the Vale Lords overplaying LF. She truly believes he's dominating the situation with his tricks when it's more likely LF will be defeated by the lords having honour and remembering Ned Stark and doing it for his girl and of course, trying to protect Lord Arryn's only son. (I'm sure they aren't stupid to believe that Marillion killed Lysa). And of course, the books have a lot of hints for Royce being loyal to the Starks, for whatever reason.

I think that's kinda what Sansa's arc will be: honour/love > tricks and games.

In the show, I really don't know what they're doing. Sansa is the one who overplayed LF with the power of her cleavage and got him on her pocket because she saved his ass. She was, allegedly, playing the game the Lords and LF were playing.

In the same way, the Lords are there risking their necks protecting Sansa but doing it anyway. Either because they cared for Ned or because they believe this will be politically relevant some day.

Next season, Royce was like "whatever, Baelish: take the girl, don't care. I keep the kid that actually matters. Please, don't come back. Ah, have some soldiers, bye".

 

Well, I know they don't trust him in the books, but it's hard to tell in the show because characters don't act consistently.

As an aside, I really don't like the way the reduced the Lords Declarant down to two, partially because so many casuals assumed that Lady Waynwood was Royce's wife rather than a ruling Lady in her own right.

One I particularly like here, of course. "The Lord of Runestone stood as tall as the Hound."

Also it's ironic that in her book story, she thinks Sandor is there to save her from rape once again, with Marillion. So she has a near miss, but with story relevance. It's a way to show how much she wishes Sandor was there and trusts him.

But on the show, she's just raped.

Great story, guys.

Why oh why did they have to rape Sansa?

[Le Cygne]

It makes no sense. They wanted to shock the audience. Then why not with Joffrey? It would have been a bad story, but at least it was logical that she was there, there was a direct story involving themselves with mutual hatred, he threatened to do so, etc.  She burned her mattress to avoid it, she didn't choose to marry a family killer, quite the opposite.

[LongRider]

~~~snip~~

Why oh why did they have to rape Sansa?

It's shocking, edgy and empowering.

 

Also known as shitty TV.

[Le Cygne]

This season is going to be worse than we think it's going to be... which is pretty bad.

[Davros Seaworth]

It makes no sense. They wanted to shock the audience. Then why not with Joffrey? It would have been a bad story, but at least it was logical that she was there, there was a direct story involving themselves with mutual hatred, he threatened to do so, etc.  She burned her mattress to avoid it, she didn't choose to marry a family killer, quite the opposite.

That it makes no sense only makes it worse. I would've thought that if they'd been planning this thing for 3 years they would've put more thought into it. Not only is it horrible she was raped, but the situation surrounding it made no sense, and it doesn't make sense for character reasons either. Ramsay is not part of Sansa's story.

It's shocking, edgy and empowering.

 

Also known as shitty TV.

Ain't that the truth.

[Davros Seaworth]

This season is going to be worse than we think it's going to be... which is pretty bad.

Well, I was at first hopeful it would be slightly better. Until I heard about the Shae thing. And then almost everything since. And why couldn't Stannis be involved in Winterfell, and what are they doing with Davos?

[Le Cygne]

Why would Jaime say this:

Jaime: What he built, it’s ours. He built it for us. He meant it for us. They’re going to try to take it away. All of it. All of them out there, our enemies. They’re waiting in line to make sure he’s really dead. And as soon as they see the stones on his eyes, they’ll set to work on tearing us apart.

The season after he said this to Tywin:

Jaime: I don't want Casterly Rock. I don't want a wife. I don't want children.
Tywin: What do you want?
Jaime: Supper would be nice.

Theatre of the absurd. They can't be doing this by accident. They have to be making no sense whatsoever on purpose. Nothing is just nothing. Or else it's just really, really bad writing. They can take their pick.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Why would Jaime say this:

Jaime: What he built, it’s ours. He built it for us. He meant it for us. They’re going to try to take it away. All of it. All of them out there, our enemies. They’re waiting in line to make sure he’s really dead. And as soon as they see the stones on his eyes, they’ll set to work on tearing us apart.

The season after he said this to Tywin:

Jaime: I don't want Casterly Rock. I don't want a wife. I don't want children.
Tywin: What do you want?
Jaime: Supper would be nice.

Theatre of the absurd. They can't be doing this by accident. They have to be making no sense whatsoever on purpose. Nothing is just nothing. Or else it's just really, really bad writing. They can take their pick.

I kinda feel they wanted Jaime to say that in reference to his children, but he never actually cares for them in the show.

[Le Cygne]

But the point is he went from NOT honoring Tywin to honoring him, with nothing in between to account for it.

Here's what happened from the first quote (season 4) to the second quote (season 5):

Jaime says he doesn't want to honor what Tywin built (which is the opposite of what he's saying in season 5).

Jaime says no to Casterly Rock, he says he wants to be Kingsguard instead. Tywin tells him he doesn't have a family (that's disowning him, just like he did in the book scene, when he said you are not my son).

Jaime stands by while Joffrey dies.

He goes behind Tywin's back, and gives Brienne Tywin's priceless gift, and tells her to use that to help the Stark they think killed a Lannister.

He rapes Cersei.

Cersei sexually manipulates him so he will help her to defy Tywin.

He rescues Tyrion, who kills Tywin.

How did he get from there to what he said in season 5? They didn't show it. Not even in the outside the episode.

Also he's suddenly the paranoid one, not Cersei. It's like they thought, what if Jaime was like Cersei, and Cersei was like Jaime, wouldn't that be cool? It doesn't make any sense.

Jaime was rejecting the whole nine yards, he said flat out, he was sick of the whole thing. He was HAPPY when Cersei sent him away. She did it to get rid of him, because he was defying her.

They didn't even let him keep the beard! It's just bizarre...