Wise Man's Fear XI

[The Marquis de Leech]

4 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I  have to ask  - what comments about women has Rothfuss made that are controversial/offensive? I haven't seen anything about this. 

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2012/02/concerning-hobbits-love-and-movie-adaptations/

One thing I find amusing about Rothfuss is that he thinks only prudes object to the sex in Wise Man's Fear. And, to be fair, there are plenty of prudes out there. It's just that he doesn't seem to realise that plenty of people think the Felurian and Adem chapters simply come across as adolescent wish fulfilment - our protagonist can't just make his sexual debut, he needs to lose it to an immortal sex goddess, who might as well be a full-size blow-up doll with 'Made in Japan' stamped on her posterior.

[Darth Richard II]

15 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2012/02/concerning-hobbits-love-and-movie-adaptations/

One thing I find amusing about Rothfuss is that he thinks only prudes object to the sex in Wise Man's Fear. And, to be fair, there are plenty of prudes out there. It's just that he doesn't seem to realise that plenty of people think the Felurian and Adem chapters simply come across as adolescent wish fulfilment - our protagonist can't just make his sexual debut, he needs to lose it to an immortal sex goddess, who might as well be a full-size blow-up doll with 'Made in Japan' stamped on her posterior.

Ha, I've never heard him call people that don't like those sections prudes, but that's hilarious. It's pretty PG sex too.

[The Marquis de Leech]

4 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

 

[The Marquis de Leech]

1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ha, I've never heard him call people that don't like those sections prudes, but that's hilarious. It's pretty PG sex too.

He devotes an hour on his (now-defunct) storyboard series to discussing it - 

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2013/02/10-tips-for-fantastic-sex/

He's so jealous that Jacqueline Carey never gets complaints about sex in her books.

[Darth Richard II]

14 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

He devotes an hour on his (now-defunct) storyboard series to discussing it - 

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2013/02/10-tips-for-fantastic-sex/

He's so jealous that Jacqueline Carey never gets complaints about sex in her books.

[sperry]

I will disagree with scortius.  I strongly believe that if you sell books that are marketed as a part of a series, you owe it to the consumers of your books to make a good faith effort to finish the books in a timely fashion. Obviously there is no legal basis for that opinion, but I do feel strongly that I have not gotten the value out of the books if the series is not ultimately finished, and my value is greatly diminished when the series is spread out beyond reason.

[Darth Richard II]

You're probably reading the wrong genre then.

[sperry]

2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

You're probably reading the wrong genre then.

 

No doubt about that, although I've definitely been trying to stick to authors who have a track record of actually producing, although I couldn't help myself and read the first two Rothfuss installations.

[C.T. Phipps]

I liken series of novels to be the equivalent of cancelled television series. Books obviously don't require as many people as they do or the expense but they do sometimes get left hanging. Authors decide they don't want to continue the series (Anne Rice and the Vampire Chronicles--until recently) or sales fall off.

I can get really upset about the cancellation but there's plenty of other series out there which need love.

I don't think any series is that awesome that it's worth getting super upset about.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

14 hours ago, sperry said:

I will disagree with scortius.  I strongly believe that if you sell books that are marketed as a part of a series, you owe it to the consumers of your books to make a good faith effort to finish the books in a timely fashion. Obviously there is no legal basis for that opinion, but I do feel strongly that I have not gotten the value out of the books if the series is not ultimately finished, and my value is greatly diminished when the series is spread out beyond reason.

No.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

20 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I liken series of novels to be the equivalent of cancelled television series. Books obviously don't require as many people as they do or the expense but they do sometimes get left hanging. Authors decide they don't want to continue the series (Anne Rice and the Vampire Chronicles--until recently) or sales fall off.

I can get really upset about the cancellation but there's plenty of other series out there which need love.

I don't think any series is that awesome that it's worth getting super upset about.

Good analogy.  I'm still irrtitated SGU was canceled.  But I'm not owed a third season.

[Spark7]

Yeah, it's the same when a show gets cancelled because it's not earning enough money and Rothfuss not finishing the third book because reasons.

[C.T. Phipps]

8 minutes ago, Spark7 said:

Yeah, it's the same when a show gets cancelled because it's not earning enough money and Rothfuss not finishing the third book because reasons.

I find money to be an incredibly poor excuse for destroying art. If Rothfuss just doesn't want to do it, that's a lot more valid.

Plenty of RL actors and screewriters just get sick of doing what they're doing.

[Spark7]

11 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I find money to be an incredibly poor excuse for destroying art. If Rothfuss just doesn't want to do it, that's a lot more valid.

Plenty of RL actors and screewriters just get sick of doing what they're doing.

Yeah, it is a poor excuse, that's why i think you can't compare cancelling a TV show with the Rothfuss situation. Hannibal, for instance, got cancelled by NBC, the creators wanted to continue and still do, whereas Rothfuss is the only one to blame for the book not coming out. The publishers can't wait for him to finish it. The biggest problem, for me, is the way he's not treating his fans. If he got sick of writing, that's OK. Just let us, the fans, know.

[C.T. Phipps]

1 minute ago, Spark7 said:

Yeah, it is a poor excuse, that's why i think you can't compare cancelling a TV show with the Rothfuss situation. Hannibal, for instance, got cancelled by NBC, the creators wanted to continue and still do, whereas Rothfuss is the only one to blame for the book not coming out. The publishers can't wait for him to finish it. The biggest problem, for me, is the way he's not treating his fans. If he got sick of writing, that's OK. Just let us, the fans, know.

I actually agree with that and mentioned it earlier. I think everyone has a right to be upset with authors ending the series and authors should say if they don't intend to or if they're not coming out any time soon.

But I don't think they're obligated to finish.

[red snow]

15 hours ago, sperry said:

I will disagree with scortius.  I strongly believe that if you sell books that are marketed as a part of a series, you owe it to the consumers of your books to make a good faith effort to finish the books in a timely fashion. Obviously there is no legal basis for that opinion, but I do feel strongly that I have not gotten the value out of the books if the series is not ultimately finished, and my value is greatly diminished when the series is spread out beyond reason.

I just wouldn't buy any of their other series. I can't make someone write something for me and the author will be aware it's a two way street. If they don't finish the series then they know there'll be less people buying their next series. It's ultimately their call (or the publisher who may also be reluctant to buy another book series from the author).

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I liken series of novels to be the equivalent of cancelled television series. Books obviously don't require as many people as they do or the expense but they do sometimes get left hanging. Authors decide they don't want to continue the series (Anne Rice and the Vampire Chronicles--until recently) or sales fall off.

I can get really upset about the cancellation but there's plenty of other series out there which need love.

I don't think any series is that awesome that it's worth getting super upset about.

I think shows are cancelled far more often because of bad ratings than the creators get tired of working on the show. It's more often I hear about the showrunners negotiating being able to end the show while popular.

 

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Good analogy.  I'm still irrtitated SGU was canceled.  But I'm not owed a third season.

 

SGU was cancelled because of money - it wasn't that the people working on SG:U decided to work on something else. I think it's easier to understand when people are put out of work. But even if they had ditched the show I agree they owe me nothing (I didn't pay for season 3 to be made). If they had walked I'd have made a point of not watching their next project, whereas I'd consider watching their next effort when cancellation was out of their control. Like I say it's a two way interaction and both sides are free to do whatever they want - they can't make me watch another season/buy another book either.

In the case of Rothfuss it's not an issue of the books not selling so I imagine Rothfuss' publishers are eagerly awaiting the next installment rather than figuring out how to end it.

 

[Chaircat Meow]

I am now coming up to the 60% mark in Wise Man's Fear and it seems like they've been hunting the bandits for ages. I do not find the Adem mercenary very interesting either. Bored for the first time now.

[Chaircat Meow]

Ok, they're fighting the bandits now, Kvothe is totally wrecking them and it's gotten interesting again.

[Seiche]

But the back half is the 'good' part!?  The first 300 pages or so struck me as almost wholly redundant to material covered in the first book.¹ 

But then the fighting and the sexing happens.

 

¹My first tinge of 'Rothfuss is maybe not so open minded about non-adoration of his work' was at a reading/signing when Wise Man's Fear came out. I asked him (politely) if it was tough to balance how much of the Book 1 content to include as an assist to readers of Book 2 who might be new to the series.  He pointedly replied that nothing in Book 2 was redundant to Book 1.  All of Book 2 was building on what came before.

I felt that reply was myopic and frankly a bunch of horse shit.  Book 2 opens with hundreds of pages of recap/refinement.  Despite all the silliness which follows (and good stuff) I felt this structural/pacing choice was the single largest shortcoming of the novel.

[Proudfeet]

Rothfuss comes across very much like Kvothe. In a way its surprising, because I'd expect him to have recognised the faults of Kvothe (and himself by extension) when coming up with Kote. Guess not.