ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sort of like if the Amish were to boycott Kingpin based on the trailer instead of that they don't watch any movies at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mord Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Robin,Well, I'm so glad to learn that you feel that people who are all too frequently, targets of ridicule, assault and murder because people made the choice to attack them, are fair game for those who made the choice to target them as the butt of a joke.Do we know that the Cumberbatch character is the butt of a joke? It's an understandable inference, but is it known? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The trailer is online. Decide for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aint Nuthin But A HoundDog Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Kind of like South Park. I laughed like hell when they make fun of Jews, Liberals, Muslims, Blacks, poor people, etc. And when it can time for Repbulicans and Catholics, I kept on laughing. I don't think it's discrimination if you make fun of everyone (and that's why I can't stand Isaac Hayes, Chef's actor, who left when they made fun of his religion after several others).Exactly! I used to be a big fan of South Park but kind of got tired of it after awhile. I was impressed that no one was immune to Parker and Stone's mocking. I'd forgotten about Isaac Hayes' reason for leaving. Ol' Chef couldn't take the heat so he took himself out of the kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Exactly! I used to be a big fan of South Park but kind of got tired of it after awhile. I was impressed that no one was immune to Parker and Stone's mocking. I'd forgotten about Isaac Hayes' reason for leaving. Ol' Chef couldn't take the heat so he took himself out of the kitchen. "Cartoonish' trans character leads to call for Zoolander 2 boycott"A Cartoonish over the top character in a Zoolander movie? Gasp.This is the villain right?I mean come on, it's Ben Stiller he makes a living making fun of himself. He made a movie about obsessive Dodge Ball players, did people who played dodge ball boycott the movie? They may have who knows everyone wants to boycott something these days. Generally in a Stiller movie the actors spend as much time riffing on themselves as they do everything else. Zoolander makes fun of models and celebrities, that's what it does, not complaining about everyone else being made fun of? That's okay. Just don't make fun of whoever Hollywood is adopting this year. Because they care, until they find something else to care about. Sure they didn't really care much about Transgender for decades, but it became news and now they care.Sorry if I take this all with a grain of salt, but I live in a place where little kids are getting executed and get to watch the media dump those stories because they are not popular for shit like this. Oh lets not do anything about the out of control gangs, because Benedict Cumberbatch giggled while playing an over the top transgender model in a movie about over the top models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 "Cartoonish' trans character leads to call for Zoolander 2 boycott"A Cartoonish over the top character in a Zoolander movie? Gasp.This is the villain right?I mean come on, it's Ben Stiller he makes a living making fun of himself. He made a movie about obsessive Dodge Ball players, did people who played dodge ball boycott the movie? They may have who knows everyone wants to boycott something these days. Generally in a Stiller movie the actors spend as much time riffing on themselves as they do everything else. Zoolander makes fun of models and celebrities, that's what it does, not complaining about everyone else being made fun of? That's okay. Just don't make fun of whoever Hollywood is adopting this year. Because they care, until they find something else to care about. Sure they didn't really care much about Transgender for decades, but it became news and now they care.Sorry if I take this all with a grain of salt, but I live in a place where little kids are getting executed and get to watch the media dump those stories because they are not popular for shit like this. Oh lets not do anything about the out of control gangs, because Benedict Cumberbatch giggled while playing an over the top transgender model in a movie about over the top models.Ah yes, the grand, liberal Hollywood conspiracy to "adopt" transgender individuals by... making a movie... in which a transgender character is the butt of jokes and laughed at for being different.Wait, that doesn't make any sense at all. Were you trying to put together a coherent argument, or were you just trying to check off a column on your "conservative talking points" bingo card? But as stupid as your post is, I do think you have a point. I hadn't really thought about the plight of that notoriously marginalized community of international supermodels being parodied by Zoolander. They are the true unsung victims of prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mord Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Robin, The trailer is online. Decide for yourself.I've seen it twice now. It doesn't seem like enough to decide on the film as a whole. The trailer is appalling. Anyone for whom this is a serious problem, and their advocates, should say so, and the trailer people did the film no favors in that section, but the scene is presumably, what, two minutes long in total? Longer? And we get ten seconds, spliced together from, I should have said, three or four different parts of the scene. I'm not saying there's anything innocent about what they're doing -- they are clearly courting controversy -- but I don't see the trailer as sufficient to convict the filmmakers of anything more than that. Everyone's threshold for boycott will be a little different; I would need something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Robin, I've seen it twice now. It doesn't seem like enough to decide on the film as a whole. The trailer is appalling. Anyone for whom this is a serious problem, and their advocates, should say so, and the trailer people did the film no favors in that section, but the scene is presumably, what, two minutes long in total? Longer? And we get ten seconds, spliced together from, I should have said, three or four different parts of the scene. I'm not saying there's anything innocent about what they're doing -- they are clearly courting controversy -- but I don't see the trailer as sufficient to convict the filmmakers of anything more than that. Everyone's threshold for boycott will be a little different; I would need something more.I suspect that the threshold is different, depending on whether one is a member of the group targeted. It's unfortunate, but that is the way the world is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 "Cartoonish' trans character leads to call for Zoolander 2 boycott"A Cartoonish over the top character in a Zoolander movie? Gasp.This is the villain right?I mean come on, it's Ben Stiller he makes a living making fun of himself. He made a movie about obsessive Dodge Ball players, did people who played dodge ball boycott the movie? They may have who knows everyone wants to boycott something these days. Generally in a Stiller movie the actors spend as much time riffing on themselves as they do everything else. Zoolander makes fun of models and celebrities, that's what it does, not complaining about everyone else being made fun of? That's okay. Just don't make fun of whoever Hollywood is adopting this year. Because they care, until they find something else to care about. Sure they didn't really care much about Transgender for decades, but it became news and now they care.Sorry if I take this all with a grain of salt, but I live in a place where little kids are getting executed and get to watch the media dump those stories because they are not popular for shit like this. Oh lets not do anything about the out of control gangs, because Benedict Cumberbatch giggled while playing an over the top transgender model in a movie about over the top models.oh yeah, dodgeball players and those who are transgender. Because we all know how society treats dodgeball players like shit already don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 "Cartoonish' trans character leads to call for Zoolander 2 boycott"A Cartoonish over the top character in a Zoolander movie? Gasp.This is the villain right?Considering child exploitation is a big deal in my country, I should have boicotted the whole thing when it came first, I suppose? (pres. of Bolivia actually legalized that, btw). Also, the first movie included a tripping scene involving dwarves just being around, something Peter Dinklage made comment in a very old movie, saying it was discriminative and ridiculous when movies included dwarves in "dreaming" scenes. And Stiller kinda makes blackface twice in Z1.People have JUST found out Zoolander and Stiller's humour is like this? The movie follows like 12 years after the first one, and IICR, both Zoolander and Hansel are retired. They are back and many things have changed. Models such as the one Benedict's character does are kinda the norm now or at least, trendy (I think the "joke" is at the fact he's exhibited as a novelty, tbh; which would make it in fact a criticism): for Z and H is a whole new world they don't understand. But, in any case, the movie proved they are also good people who, despite their simple view of life, are accepting of others. So, if such character comes to tell them "don't define my by my sex", they likely would say "oh, well, that's cool, you're cool too, let's hang out" They aren't insensitive, only incredibly clueless. Derek did apologise to Matilda after he dismissed her bulimia.In any case, why not also a boycott for Cumberbatch (like the one Joss Whedon got) as he's participating on this: he got the script, agreed on the movie and saw nothing wrong with this. He's too cool to boycott? (I would sign that because I'm kinda tired of him, tbh). Or Penelope Cruz (they also made a joke at her). Or Kristen Wiig.What I do see is that all articles referencing the petition (I'm reading ten already) mention "LGTB activists" are on it, but I only see one single person behind the whole thing. Seriously, this person called Sarah Rose, who I thought it was someone famous (as for how she's been called in the articles: "Sarah Rose has started a petition..." like I'm supposed to know who she is) All the articles mention this "Sarah Rose" person; none of them actually has one single transgender/androg. person saying their opinion. Wasn't the joke about them?I mean, there are a lot of tv shows/movies that are plainly offensive (cof*got*cof*) and need to work on their sensibilities for a whole month straight, but this one? The point of the first one was not let your life be defined by what others perceive about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosesskrift Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 When I saw the trailer I thought the joke was that Stiller was too old fashioned to understand the new reality of the fashion industry, and that he was the butt of the joke, rather than Cumberbatch. I am however not part of a group that faces such ridicule on a regular basis, so I understand why others would see it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbold Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't know why you think that the someone organizing a boycott in any way infringes upon someone else's freedom of speech. It doesn't. It merely impacts someone's ability to profit from their speech. Which, if enough people don't like what someone is saying, is completely legitimate. Well, like i've tried to say several times now, i believe you can say whatever you like. Words are just that: words. The moment that speech takes form of Action is when one should have some caution, and if im not mistaken, a boycott is exactly that.I would also be carefull to associate the validity of an argument with number of people who profess it. Edit for poor english which gave the wrong message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The whole controversy is a storm in a glass water imo. People opposed to the petition are getting way to hysterical about this (the discussion here is actually pretty civilized, it's much, much worse elsewhere online). Personally, I thought the joke was stupid (I also read it as a jab at how out of touch Zoolander and Hansel were) and I wasn't offended, but then again I'm not trans, so I'm not really in a position to judge.The activists imo have every right to craft a petition and put their arguments out there to raise awareness. It is up to the rest of us to listen to them and then decide for ourselves if we'll be watching this or not. That's how free speech works and just dismissing it all out of hand seems kind of dumb. I was personally not planning on seeing this in the theatre (I was excited by the teaser for about five seconds and then I remembered Anchorman 2 and I knew I could never be excited by this film again), unless it got some really good reviews. With this discussion, I might think twice about going even if this were to somehow get rave reviews (not blooky likely). Just my two cents of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Exactly! I used to be a big fan of South Park but kind of got tired of it after awhile. I was impressed that no one was immune to Parker and Stone's mocking. I'd forgotten about Isaac Hayes' reason for leaving. Ol' Chef couldn't take the heat so he took himself out of the kitchen. Oddly enough, the current season of south park has had a season-long "discussion" on pretty much what people are arguing about here regarding "who can/can't be mocked" vs "freedom of speech/viewing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Oddly enough, the current season of south park has had a season-long "discussion" on pretty much what people are arguing about here regarding "who can/can't be mocked" vs "freedom of speech/viewing". South Park is a great example I think. They are so fearless (I suppose the Religious Figures Super-Friends bailout might be the one exception) and their scope is so wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The activists imo have every right to craft a petition and put their arguments out there to raise awareness. It is up to the rest of us to listen to them and then decide for ourselves if we'll be watching this or not. That's how free speech works and just dismissing it all out of hand seems kind of dumb. I was personally not planning on seeing this in the theatre (I was excited by the teaser for about five seconds and then I remembered Anchorman 2 and I knew I could never be excited by this film again), unless it got some really good reviews. With this discussion, I might think twice about going even if this were to somehow get rave reviews (not blooky likely). Just my two cents of course.Basically exactly how I feel. If you're going to use ''freedom of speech'' as the basis of your argument then you should have respect that a bunch of people can excersise their free speech and raise awareness of something that might be upsetting to people or to try and change peoples minds concerning certain jokes. The whole ''I can be offensive but no one can be offended'' argument is dumb as shit to be quite frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Basically exactly how I feel. If you're going to use ''freedom of speech'' as the basis of your argument then you should have respect that a bunch of people can excersise their free speech and raise awareness of something that might be upsetting to people or to try and change peoples minds concerning certain jokes. The whole ''I can be offensive but no one can be offended'' argument is dumb as shit to be quite frankSure, but the inverse of that is also true. This offends me, therefore it should not be produced/should be censored, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't believe in censoring what is already out there but if there is a big enough demand from people for something not to be made...don't make it...and when we're talking about dumb and offensive and hurtful jokes I can't really take the censoring argument seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 9,000 signatures all it takes to blacklist a multimillion dollar production based on a 30 second promo clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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