Your Random ASOIAF/TWOIAF/D&E Opinions, Confessions and Dirty Secrets, (making the) 8. [The Seven was cursed]

[Magnar of Skagos]

I got this interesting vision while I was listening to Jon tell Sam that he and Gilly are leaving: I pictured a VERY tired and miserable 'Mormont's Raven' arriving at the Citadel after Jon's stabbing and saying "Snow!! Blood!! Dead!" trying to make Sam understand...

Hmmm... I think that'd actually be quite interesting if that happens.

[winterfellsedai]

Because Sam does know Mormont's Raven...he recognizes him when he comes out of the kettle. We'll see...

[Good Guy Garlan]

I got this interesting vision while I was listening to Jon tell Sam that he and Gilly are leaving: I pictured a VERY tired and miserable 'Mormont's Raven' arriving at the Citadel after Jon's stabbing and saying "Snow!! Blood!! Dead!" trying to make Sam understand...

"What's that, boy? Jon fell into a well...and then got stabbed?"

Joking aside, that's a very interesting thought. I don't think I've ever seen a thread about the raven's whereabouts after the stabbing, but I guess the Ravenry or whatever the name is of that tower where Pate took care of the ravens is a good place for the raven to pop up.

[Fat Mac]

I disagree, although I really enjoy the Aegon/Griff storyline. 

I do too to be honest. And to be fair I have to give Tyrion points for pointing Aegon towards Westeros. His travel down the Rhoyne was the highlight of his story in the book I think. Afterwards it was blah.

[winterfellsedai]

I think the realization the lions were meant to eat them alive in front of the royalty if Meereen might qualify as a highlight, no?

[Good Guy Garlan]

I think the highlight of his storyline was when he met Dany. Oh, wait...

For me, it was the Bridge of Dream/Stone Men attack sequence. It was really the only palatable part of his Dance chapters, IMO. Everything else sucked, but that part reminded me of the spirit or the tone of asoiaf at its best. But then Jorah showed up and it all went to shit. Classic Jorah. 

[Magnar of Skagos]

Tyrion's chapters where it was nothing but him and Penny sitting around in the Yunkai camp, were almost as boring as Daenerys' own chapters.

[Caspoi]

The "there are heroes on both sides" bit always kills me. Like, since when are murderous coughing robots "heroes"? (I do think that if given more weight Dooku's character could've been more ambiguously gray, but I guess wasting the talents of the late Sir Christopher Lee was more important)

Speaking of Star Wars, I see a lot of similarities between that and asoiaf:

Both were created by a guy named George, whose first trilogy was brilliant. Like in "A New Hope", Game sees the death of a father/mentor figure but ends in an optimistic high note nonetheless (the Empire took a major loss, everyone's rising against the Lannisters). Clash, like "Empire", is my personal favorite entry in the series, and by the time they're over, the characters' paths seem bleak, but they look for hope in the future (Luke et al looking at space with hope, Bran realizing that Winterfell, like him, is not dead, just broken). The third chapter in the trilogy was excellent as well, though a few flaws began to show: in Star Wars, the divisive Ewoks, the repetitive Death Star plot; in Storm, the beginning of the long travelogues and cliffhangers, particularly with Bran, the resurrection of Stoneheart. But despite all that, the trilogy was a masterpiece. 

But then came the fourth entry. It was boring, muddled, confusing, slow, with annoying characters that tried too hard (Jar Jar/Darkstar) or just plain uninteresting (Qui Gon/Hotah), and most of the characters we knew and loved from before were absent. The fifth chapter improved on the previous one if only ever so slightly, and it remained a mess that no longer had the spirit of the first trilogy. (An important difference here is that unlike Dance, Attack of the Clones has a huge battle at the end. Overlong and to the brim with shit, but a battle nonetheless. Also, both had a colosseum/arena).

That means Winds is gonna be like Revenge of the Sith. Feeling hopeful yet?

I really agree on the first part, they really missed an oppurtunity to properly represent the separatists as manipulated idealists when they represented practically every single one of the as a villain, this turned it all into republic=good, separatists=evil, considering that their actual goals (which get ignored most of the time) is nothing particularly villainous (indepence from an arguably corrupt supergovernment that you could say seems to possess elements of human supremacism) and they are right in most of their accusations they really missed a golden oppurtunity to make them somewhat more of an anti-villain faction.

[Shuvuuia]

14 hours ago, winterfellsedai said:

I got this interesting vision while I was listening to Jon tell Sam that he and Gilly are leaving: I pictured a VERY tired and miserable 'Mormont's Raven' arriving at the Citadel after Jon's stabbing and saying "Snow!! Blood!! Dead!" trying to make Sam understand...

I like this image!

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

21 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Yes! Some of his "jokes" fall so flat or are downright cringeworthy, especially the endless puns about his stature. We get it, you're small! And, oh God, when he pokes Thorne in the chest with a fork and challenges him to a duel. That's like Jennifer Lawrence at the Golden Globes level of cringe. But to be fair, he does have some pretty good lines (the chapter when we first meet Tywin in aGoT remains his funniest, IMO), but Stannis is in another level altogether, almost all his lines are golden. 

My problem is that I don't think the bolded was true in Dance. He was on some random and boring ass travelogue I didn't care about, while the action (little though it was) was happening elsewhere. 

 

A while back there was a thread - that got closed down fast - asking how you would want your least favourite character to die. I said I wanted Tyrion to be killed with a crab fork That whole scene is so cringe worthy and was what first make me dislike Tyrion!

[HairGrowsBack]

37 minutes ago, LordManderlyAsDragonRider said:

 

A while back there was a thread - that got closed down fast - asking how you would want your least favourite character to die. I said I wanted Tyrion to be killed with a crab fork That whole scene is so cringe worthy and was what first make me dislike Tyrion!

Once you get pass the Tyrion hype, you start to realize there are a lot of characters much funnier than he is. Not saying he doesn't have good lines, but Jaime, Stannis, Cersei, etc.. are way more caustic.

[Ser Creighton]

21 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I think the highlight of his storyline was when he met Dany. Oh, wait...

For me, it was the Bridge of Dream/Stone Men attack sequence. It was really the only palatable part of his Dance chapters, IMO. Everything else sucked, but that part reminded me of the spirit or the tone of asoiaf at its best. But then Jorah showed up and it all went to shit. Classic Jorah. 

You got robbed, we all did, Martin dropped the Grey Grace from the Bridge of dreams, I bet it was good too but gave to much away.

Hey you know that part in the books where Tyrion goes through the bridge of Dreams and falls into the water?

Yeah?

Well there was this awesome character called the Shrouded Lord that Tyrion was going to meet in this really creepy dream like sequence. He is the King of the Stone men. But I dropped because I thought it would cool to see Tyrion out smart a 16 year old and then watch him flip a table. So much more epic.

It like saying hey remember those eggs I gave Dany back in Thrones, well I was going to hatch them and she was going to have three Dragons. Instead I brought her brother Viserys back, and had him get angry over something because he was not getting his way and had him throw a drink at the wall and say oh yeah well I'm the king.

[7-KG]

On 14/01/2016 at 1:05 PM, Shuvuuia said:

Oberyn negativity ahead!

 

I don't get "Oberyn died too soon" hype. He was ok as a secondary character and his death has left impact for many readers (not for me), but if he lived longer he would become annoying. Also, imho, he is one of the least original of ASoiAF characters and has lots of stereotypical dangerous foreign man and bi/pansexual tropes for my liking. I think Sarella and Ellaria are more interesting by far and with right development Obara, Tyene and Nym would've been more interesting. But even with how they are right now I don't see how Sand Snakes are more cliche than him. In my opinion they are on the same level.

also I fail to see what's so sexy about book!Oberyn (sexiness of the actor doesn't count)

 

On 14/01/2016 at 1:43 PM, Sullen said:

I think Oberyn was a bad person.

What he did to Obara's mother and his supposed use of poison during his duel with Lord Yronwood just reeks of massive fucking douchebag.

/unpopular opinion

He kicked Gregor's ass, though. And you two gotta admit it was badass (well, until him playing the moron and getting himself killed, but he still kicked).

[winterfellsedai]

Geez...I am so behind the power curve: Mel as Nissa Nissa? Amazing. I need to go read!!

[Good Guy Garlan]

4 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

You got robbed, we all did, Martin dropped the Grey Grace from the Bridge of dreams, I bet it was good too but gave to much away.

Hey you know that part in the books where Tyrion goes through the bridge of Dreams and falls into the water?

Yeah?

Well there was this awesome character called the Shrouded Lord that Tyrion was going to meet in this really creepy dream like sequence. He is the King of the Stone men. But I dropped because I thought it would cool to see Tyrion out smart a 16 year old and then watch him flip a table. So much more epic.

It like saying hey remember those eggs I gave Dany back in Thrones, well I was going to hatch them and she was going to have three Dragons. Instead I brought her brother Viserys back, and had him get angry over something because he was not getting his way and had him throw a drink at the wall and say oh yeah well I'm the king.

Yeah, I remember reading about that somewhere! But I guess a detailed report on the various species of turtles that inhabit the Rhoyne or endless instances of pig riding were more important than interesting, poetic dream sequences featuring the few legitimately fascinating bits of world-building and mythology of Essos. 

Gods, it's like the more you think about them, the shittier Feast and Dance get, especially when you come across stuff like this. 

[Ser Creighton]

1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Yeah, I remember reading about that somewhere! But I guess a detailed report on the various species of turtles that inhabit the Rhoyne or endless instances of pig riding were more important than interesting, poetic dream sequences featuring the few legitimately fascinating bits of world-building and mythology of Essos. 

Gods, it's like the more you think about them, the shittier Feast and Dance get, especially when you come across stuff like this. 

Yeah, I remember reading about that somewhere! But I guess a detailed report on the various species of turtles that inhabit the Rhoyne or endless instances of pig riding were more important than interesting, poetic dream sequences featuring the few legitimately fascinating bits of world-building and mythology of Essos. 

Gods, it's like the more you think about them, the shittier Feast and Dance get, especially when you come across stuff like this. 

Well, in terms of Crows and Dance, I did not hate those books. As most know I am into the literary devices, and those books are loaded with symbolism, the juxtaposed, theme, and they play into what I tend to post about. In terms of quality, I thought they had highs and lows and were more erratic in pacing than the other books. I thought there were some really good Meereen chapters and some really tedious Meereen chapters. It also contains one of the most wincing bits of imagery in the series for me. The sexcapades, dear lord, I actually winced. My first thought was how many injuries occurred in practice, my second was "really George", my third was "WTF" my fourth was I may have to drop the series, because that was just out of left field strange and creepy for anyone to write.  I mean who think you know what would be sexy and cool, a bunch of naked slaves disco line dancing and having it end with a bunch of women flying through the air and landing on a bunch of dicks. What was that? And Martin writes it as arousing to those watching it. And I can't stop think wtf is running through his head.

Tyrions chapters were really a drag, the withdrawal, naked nun, turtles, and a teen pretty much acting like a teen, and that ends up with a new POV JonCon (JCRB is going to hate me), but he is pretty much Jorah 2.0, he is creeping on dead Rhaegar like Jorah creeps on Dany. Also it was some 30 odd whore references and  a sex slave scene which made me want to puke more than Tyrion and I don't know a hundred comments about his own cock which had me wondering if Martin was trying to single handedly revive Freud. Also Jorah and the slave from Lys was supper creepy. It was like wow seek help and then he put those two together and we got slave master explosive diarrhea. By the way he made Diarrhea an actual theme, go reread it, yes diarrhea was a theme, I think Martin probably needs more fiber in his diet.

I wondered while I read it if something was missing from Tyrion's chapters as the pacing was so slow and I thought we would meet the shrouded lord because they seem to be building up to it. Then I found out he removed the shrouded lord and was like but that sounds awesome. All we got was this.

"He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord. He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest."

Also I thought after swords we would get a sort of more indepth perspective of the Wall with Sam. But he is basically just Jon's yes man while he is there. I thought Sam got more interesting after he left but could of done without him breast feeding. It was not like a sexy thing either it was like when George became aroused by Pastrami, the most sensual of the salted cured meets. I get it, sex is part of the story, but Gilly is not a lunchable.

It's probably just me but there were times where it just got weird. Lots of diarrhea, sexcapades come to Meereen, Jorah Creepying on Bizzaro Dany, JonCon creeping on a dead guy, naked nun, Tyrion sex slave vomit scene, Gilly Lunchable, fat pink mast, dead guys with cocks shoved in their mouths, Sam puking, I don't even want to talk about what went down on the shield Islands, and naked shaved Cersei who had to somehow end up in shit. 

At times it was like reading something Caligula wrote while tripping. I don't know maybe he let Sean Penn write some chapters, and umm he got confused. "Gosh that didn't work and people think I am strange, gasp. But Diarrhea, adult sensual breast feeding to ease hunger during sex, puking and the sexcapades need to be talked about because nobody understands, only me, and I am going to make them understand. Lets get it out there lets talk about diarrhea almost everyone has been effected by it, it can come back, now what are we going to do about it. I'll tell you what, we breast feed while watching the sexcapades, and then puke."  

Oh crap no pun intended, I forgot American horror story freak show made an appearance and then a fat slave master took a crap on them. Oh and bestiality he actually worked in bestiality and insane abuse. Wow, just wow. 

 

[Shuvuuia]

14 hours ago, 7-KG said:

 

He kicked Gregor's ass, though. And you two gotta admit it was badass (well, until him playing the moron and getting himself killed, but he still kicked).

In theory - yes, but I'm not really fond of the fight itself. I think GRRM is very hit-and-miss with his descriptions.I liked only Sandor vs Beric duel and Dunk's trial of seven, and D&E other fights were ok, but I need emotional response and I don't care about Tyrion.  And because he isn't in an immediate danger and I was spoiled that he survives anyway, I was waiting for his imprisonment chapters to end and get to Jon and Arya (but I love Tyrion's Tysha revelation chapter)

[Isobel Harper]

Random idea/theory:

Robb not only disinherited Sansa from Winterfell, but also granted her the rights to Harrenhal via matrilineal parentage.  By doing so, Robb keeps Lannisters out of Winterfell but still takes care of his sister simultaneously.  Lady Shella Whent had recently died (unless I'm mistaken) at that point in time, leaving Harrenhal without a direct heir.  (Littlefinger has authority over Harrenhal... but only according to the Lannisters., which Robb would not recognize.)

Harrenhal is an attractive enough holding that it may appease the Lannisters enough to prevent fighting for rights to Winterfell once Jon becomes legitimized; to risk fighting for the rights to The North is to risk losing Harrenhal.  Harrenhal is the castle farthest south in The Riverlands and in The Kingdom of the North.  Should Sansa's descendants have Stark political-familial leanings, they will act as defenders from/diplomats to the South.  Should Sansa's descendants have Lannister political-familial preferences, Harrenhal - being so far south - is at a disadvantage location to attack or invade The North and would be subservient to the Tullys, who are loyal to the North.  Last but not least, Robb (unintentionally) trolls LF not once but twice: Sansa has no claim to the North AND Tyrion (who LF despises) has rights to his castle, Harrenhal. 

*end theory*

Thoughts?

[Lost Melnibonean]

15 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Random idea/theory:

Robb not only disinherited Sansa from Winterfell, but also granted her the rights to Harrenhal via matrilineal parentage.  By doing so, Robb keeps Lannisters out of Winterfell but still takes care of his sister simultaneously.  Lady Shella Whent had recently died (unless I'm mistaken) at that point in time, leaving Harrenhal without a direct heir.  (Littlefinger has authority over Harrenhal... but only according to the Lannisters., which Robb would not recognize.)

Harrenhal is an attractive enough holding that it may appease the Lannisters enough to prevent fighting for rights to Winterfell once Jon becomes legitimized; to risk fighting for the rights to The North is to risk losing Harrenhal.  Harrenhal is the castle farthest south in The Riverlands and in The Kingdom of the North.  Should Sansa's descendants have Stark political-familial leanings, they will act as defenders from/diplomats to the South.  Should Sansa's descendants have Lannister political-familial preferences, Harrenhal - being so far south - is at a disadvantage location to attack or invade The North and would be subservient to the Tullys, who are loyal to the North.  Last but not least, Robb (unintentionally) trolls LF not once but twice: Sansa has no claim to the North AND Tyrion (who LF despises) has rights to his castle, Harrenhal. 

*end theory*

Thoughts?

And the twisted little monkey demon would be subject to the curse!

[Isobel Harper]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And the twisted little monkey demon would be subject to the curse!

Forget an annulment.  Perhaps this is how Sansa rids herself of Tyrion.