Why did the Others awaken NOW?

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

Do we know (referenced in the books) that the balance of seasons was broken after the Long Night? or was it already broken since before the Long Night?

It is confirmed in TWoIaF. Yandel tells us that there are accounts from the Yi Tish, the Ghiscari, and other ancient cultures who have writings from before the Long Night indicating that the seasons were normal (i.e. behaving the way astronomy dictates they should behave) prior to the Long Night.

[rotting sea cow]

52 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

I don't think it's a case of the Others awakening. I suspect they have been in the far North the whole time. Even if they destroy a small remote settlement from time to time, no one is likely to know it was them. It's even more unlikely that anyone at the Wall or south of it is going to hear of it or believe. 

I think this is the case. They were never fully asleep, but never in full in offensive. Anyway, it would be interesting to correlate events like kings beyond the Wall, doom of Valyria and Aegon's conquest with events north of the Wall.

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The question is: why are they on the offensive now?  This may be a simple case that the forces which kept the Others in check are all but gone.  The Nights Watch is at it's lowest point and has forgotten much of its history. The COTF are nearly all gone (according to Leaf). Maybe the WW know their opposition is weak. 

Certainly, they feel it.

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Also Mance has been uniting wildlings and preparing for an assault on 7K. The WW may see this a threat or they may be drawn by great masses of living people/fires/animals. in a few skirmishes, they realize that humans don't have swords which can hurt them and are weak. IIRC the Other that killed Waymar Royce paused when Royce drew his sword. Tormund speaks of them nibbling around the edges of Mance's forces  it sounds like the have cautiously testing their opposition for a while.

It sounds to me they were shepherding the wildings, forcing them south. They certainly expected them to prevail and break the NW. With the NW watch gone an important force keeping the strength of the Wall is gone.

[rotting sea cow]

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It is confirmed in TWoIaF. Yandel tells us that there are accounts from the Yi Tish, the Ghiscari, and other ancient cultures who have writings from before the Long Night indicating that the seasons were normal (i.e. behaving the way astronomy dictates they should behave) prior to the Long Night.

Interesting. So, we can assume that the Others are not an ancient force in Planetos, but something that came from outside or created by another powerful force.

[Lord Varys]

39 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

Interesting. So, we can assume that the Others are not an ancient force in Planetos, but something that came from outside or created by another powerful force.

Either that, or that the Others did something during the Long Night (or to cause it) that had a tremendous permanent effect on the seasons.

[Lost Umber]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Either that, or that the Others did something during the Long Night (or to cause it) that had a tremendous permanent effect on the seasons.

I always suspected that the Others were created by the COTF during their war with the First Men. Kind of a last ditch magic effort that they couldn't contain. (The old..."Magic is like a sword without a hilt" idea).

we've already seen that the COTF can create magic wards to keep the wights away and also control their own wights (Coldhands). The story of the Last Hero tells that he went to the COTF to learn how to defeat the Others.  Maybe the COTF created the Others to force the Pact. It seems to me they were losing up until then. 

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

I always suspected that the Others were created by the COTF during their war with the First Men. Kind of a last ditch magic effort that they couldn't contain. (The old..."Magic is like a sword without a hilt" idea).

That is, most likely, the best explanation. Yet it might not have been all the Children. Keep in mind that Yandel is rather precise with his words when he tells us that in the end the wisest on both sides (among the First Men and the Children) prevailed, suggesting that there were unwise war-mongers on both sides. The unwise Children could have refused to make or participate in the Pact, instead departing into the Lands of Always Winter where they eventually created the Others.

There is also a chance that the war began anew after the Pact was made. There would have been unwise First Men, too, after all. I'd be actually surprised to learn that there were already Others around by the time of the Pact. Could be, but it would be somewhat odd.

8 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

we've already seen that the COTF can create magic wards to keep the wights away and also control their own wights (Coldhands). The story of the Last Hero tells that he went to the COTF to learn how to defeat the Others.  Maybe the COTF created the Others to force the Pact. It seems to me they were losing up until then. 

I assume that Coldhands is actually a wight created by the Others who somehow regained control of his body. Assume he was a skinchanger, began his second life in an animal but was able to take control of his undead body thereafter somehow. The blue eyes seem to indicate that the wights are controlled by the Others.

[The Hammer of Justice]

1 hour ago, Lost Umber said:

we've already seen that the COTF can create magic wards to keep the wights away and also control their own wights (Coldhands)

hmmmm I don't think Coldhands is being controlled. I think he is acting concious. Coldhands reminds me of the people resurrected by R'hollor, in which they retain their free will.

I think Coldhands is just a random ranger that served Bloodraven during his time as Lord Commander, because Coldhands called him "friend". Bloodraven needed someone to bring Bran to him, but BR himself cannot move, so he resurrected his friend to help him, to be his agent outside of the cave.

I think Coldhands exists to show us that the Others might not be the only ones who can raise wights.

[Lost Umber]

31 minutes ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

hmmmm I don't think Coldhands is being controlled. I think he is acting concious. Coldhands reminds me of the people resurrected by R'hollor, in which they retain their free will.

I think Coldhands is just a random ranger that served Bloodraven during his time as Lord Commander, because Coldhands called him "friend". Bloodraven needed someone to bring Bran to him, but BR himself cannot move, so he resurrected his friend to help him, to be his agent outside of the cave.

I think Coldhands exists to show us that the Others might not be the only ones who can raise wights.

Could be.  But I think he was just tool used to escort Bran safely to the cave. Nobody seemed too bent out of shape when Coldhands was being chopped to pieces outside the cave... I can't remember Leaf's exact words but it was something. "meh...no biggie. He died a long time ago."

it would be interesting to know if he was conscious or controlled. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

36 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

Coldhands was being chopped to pieces outside the cave.

Eh?

[Lost Umber]

41 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Eh?

Likely outcome of being surrounded by wights

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

4 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

Likely outcome of being surrounded by wights

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. From reading the post it seemed as if it were a matter of fact. I thought that all these years had gone by and I had missed something.

[Lost Umber]

10 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. From reading the post it seemed as if it were a matter of fact. I thought that all these years had gone by and I had missed something.

Actually... in my memory I thought he was being hacked at badly when they went in the cave. After your post I went back to check and realized it was my imagination and not the text. 

[T and A]

Well, the Others got badly defeated during the long night. At least this is what we have been told in ASOIAF and in the World of Ice and Fire. We don't know for certain what happend during this war. With the centurys passing, History became legend, legend became myth. But lets take it, for the sake of speculation, for granted that the others were defeated during this war. Their numbers must have been shrinken to nearly zero. We know, that they "kidnap" Crasters sons. But we don't know yet why, at least in the books. Now lets assume, this is how they "reproduce". Well then it is just normal, that they need centuries to grow an army big enough to be a danger for humanity.

Why now is here the question? Well because the book is about the war with the others, so it had to start were they were big enough to be a threat for humanity. The book could not start centuries ago. 

[John Suburbs]

It seems to me that if it was the rise or even the fall of Valyria and/or the dragons that spurred the walkers into action, then it has taken a helluva long time for them to meander even this far south. So that would mean the wall and the realm are probably safe for another half century at least.

It makes more sense that a more recent event is what triggered their movement, which is why I pin it on Jon's birth.

My guess is that mixing ice blood (through Starks, who are descended from the Night's King's surviving half-Other child, aka Roose Bolton) and fire blood (Targaryens, descended from actual dragons) is a very bad thing. It was why the Pact of Ice and Fire was never consummated, probably at the urging of the Green Men.

With the Song of Ice and Fire now contained in one person's blood, the Others are on the hunt to kill him.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

17 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

With the Song of Ice and Fire now contained in one person's blood, the Others are on the hunt to kill him.

But how would they know?

[Lost Umber]

1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

But how would they know?

Spider sense. From their ice spiders. 

[Lord Varys]

19 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

With the Song of Ice and Fire now contained in one person's blood, the Others are on the hunt to kill him.

The idea that the Others give a damn about the bloodlines of the people they kill to make them into their thralls makes little sense. There is no reason to believe that Stark or Targaryen blood has any magical quality whatsoever aside from the Targaryen connection to dragons and fire magic, and the Stark (Children of the Forest?) legacy of skinchanging (and thus, also, very rarely, greenseeing).

While there clearly were no trueborn Targaryen-Stark children there is a pretty good chance that Dany has Stark ancestors through her Blackwood great-grandmother (who could have had a Stark ancestor). And, of course, there is a pretty good chance that Aegon the Unworthy fucked at least one woman with Stark ancestors. He supposedly had over 900 different women in his life, not to mention the chances that some of the army of baseborn bastards this man might have fathered could have hooked up with some Stark bastard, or some Stark bastard's grandchildren.

The prince that was promised might have a special role in the fight against the Others (or not, really, the guy has never been mentioned in connection with the Others) but there is no reason to believe he is somehow related to them or that this fact (if true) would play any role in his 'specialness'.

[The Fresh PtwP]

First off I don't believe the Others were asleep, just weakened and passive after the Long Night. 

Second I think Valyria/dragons/fire magic is there "counter". 

Third I do not believe they have too much intel on what happens outside of the North.

So in my eyes Long Night happens, the Others are defeated, fast foward years and years of recovering and licking their wounds, than out of nowhere two "dragons" are at their doorstep in the form of BR and Aemon, and one of them certainly pings on the magic radar. That dangerous magical one is made leader of their archenemy and now they're right and pissed...So they start making their presence felt. Wildlings first, gathering troops, years, years, years, Craster, years, years...than Waymar. I think the Other inspecting his blade was looking for dragonglass or VS, after Waymar I think the Others realize men aren't what they used to be, and that men have forgotten about dragonglass. So with new knowledge that they're untouchable they are now really bearing down (i.e. The Fist, Long Night 2.0)

[John Suburbs]

7 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

But how would they know?

like Umber said, some sort of disturbance in the force, or maybe the weirnet. Who knows with magical creatures.

[John Suburbs]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The idea that the Others give a damn about the bloodlines of the people they kill to make them into their thralls makes little sense. There is no reason to believe that Stark or Targaryen blood has any magical quality whatsoever aside from the Targaryen connection to dragons and fire magic, and the Stark (Children of the Forest?) legacy of skinchanging (and thus, also, very rarely, greenseeing).

While there clearly were no trueborn Targaryen-Stark children there is a pretty good chance that Dany has Stark ancestors through her Blackwood great-grandmother (who could have had a Stark ancestor). And, of course, there is a pretty good chance that Aegon the Unworthy fucked at least one woman with Stark ancestors. He supposedly had over 900 different women in his life, not to mention the chances that some of the army of baseborn bastards this man might have fathered could have hooked up with some Stark bastard, or some Stark bastard's grandchildren.

The prince that was promised might have a special role in the fight against the Others (or not, really, the guy has never been mentioned in connection with the Others) but there is no reason to believe he is somehow related to them or that this fact (if true) would play any role in his 'specialness'.

Well, the title of the series has to mean something, and blood/fire/ice/shadow magic runs pretty heavily throughout the book. I'm not saying that blood itself has any magical ability, although more than a few characters in the book say it does, but that the mixing of these two bloodlines is bad in some way that we readers cannot discern yet.

My guess would be that ancestral blood does not count, for Dany, Aerys or anyone else -- otherwise Mel would be able to burn virtually anyone in the world and call it king's blood. It would have to be a child from the leading branches of Houses Stark and Targaryen, Ice and Fire. As far as we know, this has never happened, even when a deal was made between the two houses, which is not something that House Stark would simply let slide without good reason. House Blackwood may have First Men blood, but as far as we know they don't have any Stark blood -- all of the Stark-Blackwood marriages that we know of brought female Blackwoods into House Stark, not the other way around. So the Blackwoods that AtU hooked up with don't appear to have any Stark blood; certainly not through any recent connection.

But again, I'm just thinking out loud here.