Le Cygne Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 5 hours ago, SerMixalot said: not to derail the thread (if it were possible) but there is something I don't understand about the SanSan shipping. I get the BatB theme. I get the seeing the inner beauty of someone. I get that Sansa is able to use her innate "feminine" skills to reach and heal the Hound. I get the attraction of the Hound to Sansa-the yearning for the innocence lost. I get that he benefits from the relationship by healing and that empowers HIM. I get the Hound uses his strength to protect Sansa, but isn't that taking Sansa's power from her, that she needs a strong male to protect her? isn't that defeating the notion of her empowerment? that she is too weak to defend herself and needs the big bad Hound? It's a love story. The story is not an exchange of goods and services. She is not fixing him, and he is not fixing her. They bring out the best in each other. The Beast awakens the beast within Beauty, and Beauty sees what's beautiful in the Beast. But these things are already there. When he helps her navigate the world at KL, that's about love. When she helps him remember the other things that matter, that's about love, too. On a fundamental level, they became friends, they have loving feelings toward each other. And this develops into sexual feelings for each other. It's a love story, that follows all the classic beats. And as GRRM's love stories go, there's empowerment for the women through expressing a choice, they live in a very patriarchal society, but within their hearts and their desires, they make this choice. It's not that we are "shipping" Sansa and the Hound, it's that these two people have formed a beautiful bond, and we like the story. Also since this is one of my favorite book stories (the other is his other BatB, Jaime and Brienne)... Just to note, the show went there with BatB. The seeds of desire for the Beast are there since book 1, it's a gradual awakening to these feelings, but there's a great scene the author wrote for season 1, that the author called "beautiful," where Sansa and the Hound just look at each other. The fear is not of the Hound (the author also had her say "you won't hurt me"), but embracing her sexuality (which was beautiful in the books). These are very different feelings she has for the Hound than she's ever had before. He's the one at the center of her sexual awakening. The show places him prominently into the scenes around her "flowering" just as the author did in the books (although not nearly as well, they did make the attempt). And there's this, which is their big scene, just like Cocteau. The show hinted at her dream at the same story beat, too. Show messed up her story big time. But there are a lot of moments. This helps explain what's going on, too. Robert Ebert, reviewing La Belle et la Bete: Quote Those familiar with the 1991 cartoon will recognize some of the elements of the story, but certainly not the tone. Cocteau uses haunting images and bold Freudian symbols to suggest that emotions are at a boil in the subconscious of his characters. Consider the extraordinary shot where Belle waits at the dining table in the castle for the Beast's first entrance. He appears behind her and approaches silently. She senses his presence, and begins to react in a way that some viewers have described as fright, although it is clearly orgasmic. Before she has even seen him, she is aroused to her very depths, and a few seconds later, as she tells him she cannot marry--a Beast!--she toys with a knife that is more than a knife. http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-beauty-and-the-beast-1946 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 1 hour ago, apovsic said: So, talking about RW reminded me that we haven't seen Edmure for a long time. So will he reappear in this season after six years? two days? one hour? three centuries? (I don't know in which time flow he is, since it seems every place has one of a kind time flow) in the cell of the Twins like nothing happened in between? Or did they forget about him (I wouldn't be surprised). I hope not! I don't want him to come back to GoT! I want him to keep gracing Outlander with his presence (and yumminess)! Remember when somebody described Alan Rickman as "the thinking woman's crumpet"? Tobias Menzies has taken over that crown, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemused Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 OT... Gee, I remember when Charles Dance was the thinking woman's crumpet ("White Mischief", )... (I bought that).. then Alan Rickman , especially after "Truly, Madly, Deeply" or,<sob!> "An Awfully Big Adventure".. (I bought that, too)) .. I like Tobias, but I don't think he fills those boots ,yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterPool Stark Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: No idea, can't remember! I was just trying to figure out the situation in RR. So, RR is under siege, and Larry will be sent to help the Freys. So the BF is in RR, and Edmure is a Frey hostage? He and Roslin have been married for 3 years, so it's likely they have one kid at least? Given that Roslin is a Frey they may even have a couple of kids. If so, why isn't he dead yet? Or maybe it's only been a few months since the RW in that area? It's all very confusing, but I hope they have at least one kid so that Jaime can trebuchet the baby over RR's walls. baby trebuchet would be awesome, come oon. Imagine all the 'that jamie guy is siiick' comments amongst the casual viewers. We'd probably have Edmure standing there, unchained pleading with Jaime; "no, no, please you can't do this! You Animal!!" Making no physical moves to actually help his kid or stop the one-handed Jaime (who is alone with Edmure and the baby at the trebuchet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: No idea, can't remember! I was just trying to figure out the situation in RR. So, RR is under siege, and Larry will be sent to help the Freys. So the BF is in RR, and Edmure is a Frey hostage? He and Roslin have been married for 3 years, so it's likely they have one kid at least? Given that Roslin is a Frey they may even have a couple of kids. If so, why isn't he dead yet? Or maybe it's only been a few months since the RW in that area? It's all very confusing, but I hope they have at least one kid so that Jaime can trebuchet the baby over RR's walls. Rumors, he's supposed to be going there to enlist the help of the Freys with Cersei's conflict with the Faith. How they are going to turn that around to even remotely resemble his book arc, and ever becoming Jaime again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 53 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said: I hope not! I don't want him to come back to GoT! I want him to keep gracing Outlander with his presence (and yumminess)! Remember when somebody described Alan Rickman as "the thinking woman's crumpet"? Tobias Menzies has taken over that crown, IMO. He's back. But he's still in Outlander, too, no worries there. I like him a lot, he's perfect as Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalsplit Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 As far as Sansa/Sandor and their "mutualistic love story" goes, I don't really understand why people assume that for genders to be equal, they have to be completely equal in every aspect possible. There are some differences between genders. To me, disregarding our differences instead of celebrating them IS the most potent toxic in gender related discussions. These differences are possibly for the sole benefit of the children. Because nature always thinks of the children. In the case of protection, men are not only developing much higher upper muscles but women also have the stage of pregnancy. No matter how good of a fighter a woman is, in a relationship where the couple decides to have a child, there will be 9 months for the woman that she will not be able to sprint at all, let alone fight. Of course the man would better fight if it comes to that. I don't think anyone would prefer a coward to a fighter in that circumstance. This is not toxic, this is survival. It becomes toxic when it is considered a universal dogma to be applied upon every man (when there is not even much need to fight). That's just the pragmatist aspect of it. Le Cygne has the complete right of it. It is not a "I be your bodyguard, you be my healer." type of relationship. What is important is they develop a bond with each other and are willing to help each other in the ways they can. Because they care for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Prince of the North said: Agreed! I believe both the show and the books will be studied in the future...but for very different reasons I think how many times I have rewatched the Sopranos, the Wire, Rome, even Oz, then I consider GoT. the 1st season I have watched 3 or 4 times, I cant bare to watch the last couple of seasons a second time. blech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 12 minutes ago, Primalsplit said: As far as Sansa/Sandor and their "mutualistic love story" goes, I don't really understand why people assume that for genders to be equal, they have to be completely equal in every aspect possible. There are some differences between genders. To me, disregarding our differences instead of celebrating them IS the most potent toxic in gender related discussions. These differences are possibly for the sole benefit of the children. Because nature always thinks of the children. In the case of protection, men are not only developing much higher upper muscles but women also have the stage of pregnancy. No matter how good of a fighter a woman is, in a relationship where the couple decides to have a child, there will be 9 months for the woman that she will not be able to sprint at all, let alone fight. Of course the man would better fight if it comes to that. I don't think anyone would prefer a coward to a fighter in that circumstance. This is not toxic, this is survival. It becomes toxic when it is considered a universal dogma to be applied upon every man (when there is not even much need to fight). That's just the pragmatist aspect of it. Le Cygne has the complete right of it. It is not a "I be your bodyguard, you be my healer." type of relationship. What is important is they develop a bond with each other and are willing to help each other in the ways they can. Because they care for each other. Yes, I agree with all of this. The bond is the thing. The Hound is very dog like in nature, in a positive way. There's a nice line in the books about petting him (all of these fascinating things are going on, and the midst of all of that, Sansa wants to pet him!) He's very motivated to protect her. In her own way, she's motivated to do the same for him. That they express these things in different ways is something to celebrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 12 hours ago, David Selig said: There is so many dumb articles in the media about this season that it's getting ridiculous. Like this one - The Sand Snakes From Game of Thrones Deserve Their Own Spinoff Show . There are no words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 4 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: I think how many times I have rewatched the Sopranos, the Wire, Rome, even Oz, then I consider GoT. the 1st season I have watched 3 or 4 times, I cant bare to watch the last couple of seasons a second time. blech Same here. I even tried last year to re-watch s 5 just to see if it improved any the second time around but never got past ep 4, and it took me a month to watch the first 4. Yikes. And I'm currently re-watching The Wire for the umpteenth time, and it's just as brilliant as it's always been. That's something that will never ever happen to GoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 10 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: I think how many times I have rewatched the Sopranos, the Wire, Rome, even Oz, then I consider GoT. the 1st season I have watched 3 or 4 times, I cant bare to watch the last couple of seasons a second time. blech Rome. I love Rome. That show was amazing. I still do rewatches of that series. I watched The Wire on and off for a while but never felt the need to watch it religiously because I lived in Baltimore at the time of filming and it was a lot of stuff I saw everyday already. A friend and me would occasionally do extras type work. That is when I got to sorta meet Aidan Gillen (Littlefinger) in real life. (don't tell anyone) Then two years ago I was room assistant at the MWA Writer's Conference for Rafael Alvarez (one of the writers on The Wire) and someone in the audience asked him why doesn't he do much screenwriting anymore, and his response was, "when was the last time you saw something good on tv?" The room roared with laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 9 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Yes, I agree with all of this. The bond is the thing. The Hound is very dog like in nature, in a positive way. There's a nice line in the books about petting him (all of these fascinating things are going on, and the midst of all of that, Sansa wants to pet him!) He's very motivated to protect her. In her own way, she's motivated to do the same for him. That they express these things in different ways is something to celebrate. The older I get, the less I realize I know, yet the more I enjoy learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: No idea, can't remember! I was just trying to figure out the situation in RR. So, RR is under siege, and Larry will be sent to help the Freys. So the BF is in RR, and Edmure is a Frey hostage? He and Roslin have been married for 3 years, so it's likely they have one kid at least? Given that Roslin is a Frey they may even have a couple of kids. If so, why isn't he dead yet? Or maybe it's only been a few months since the RW in that area? It's all very confusing, but I hope they have at least one kid so that Jaime can trebuchet the baby over RR's walls. She will probably still pregnant ... as a result of her wedding night? Poor Roslin (if we will see her? - Nothing is mentioned on Alexandra Dowling IMDb?) Pregnant for such a long period... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Just now, Tijgy said: She will probably still pregnant ... as a result of her wedding night? Poor Roslin (if we will see her? - Nothing is mentioned on Alexandra Dowling IMDb?) Pregnant for such a long period... If she's pregnant I will laugh so much! Walda is a bat with a pregnancy of ~ 40 days and Roslin is an elephant at ~ 650 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: If she's pregnant I will laugh so much! Walda is a bat with a pregnancy of ~ 40 days and Roslin is an elephant at ~ 650 days! Me too! But the worst is that I actually can see it happen because their timeline is really completely broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: If she's pregnant I will laugh so much! Walda is a bat with a pregnancy of ~ 40 days and Roslin is an elephant at ~ 650 days! That baby Elephant is going to break the trebuchet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, Tijgy said: Me too! But the worst is that I actually can see it happen because their timeline is really completely broken. So true. Creative timeline! 9 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: That baby Elephant is going to break the trebuchet! Hey, and maybe Walda is a secret Whent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Wolf Bran Stark Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 And somehow, Gilly's baby will still be a baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterPool Stark Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 54 minutes ago, The Winged Wolf Bran Stark said: And somehow, Gilly's baby will still be a baby! That Sam is one lucky fellow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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