Doran and Dorne in Season 6

[Cas Stark]

19 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

When did i mention need to do dorne? i am saying what they are going to do. Dany getting to westeros and is going to have allies. they decide that those allies will be the people they already are anti-lannister. 

That still doesn't explain why Siddig is off the show and Can't Act Her Way Out of A Bag Keish Castle Hughs is still on the show.  Doran Martell could have been her ally.

Keeping the absolute worst characters out of a story line that doesn't work well even in the books and works less well in the show is dumb.  It guarantees that Dorne will continue to be cartoonish and silly...because the sand snakes are bad actresses wearing bad costumes and given bad lines.

[Ser Gareth]

22 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

When did i mention need to do dorne? i am saying what they are going to do. Dany getting to westeros and is going to have allies. they decide that those allies will be the people they already are anti-lannister. 

I think it may follow the books more closely than that.  My theory is that in the books they team up with Aegon, get their arse kicked.  Thus weakening Westeros further in the face of the oncoming Others.  In the show there is no Aegon so they'll have Dorne simply go to war without Aegon.  Either way will achieve the same end result.

[239JMFL34109]

52 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think it may follow the books more closely than that.  My theory is that in the books they team up with Aegon, get their arse kicked.  Thus weakening Westeros further in the face of the oncoming Others.  In the show there is no Aegon so they'll have Dorne simply go to war without Aegon.  Either way will achieve the same end result.

see i agree with you i am just adding "Two sand snakes go to Esso to try to ally with Dany" 

I don't think they are staying in KL from what we have seen right now. 

56 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

That still doesn't explain why Siddig is off the show and Can't Act Her Way Out of A Bag Keish Castle Hughs is still on the show.  Doran Martell could have been her ally.

I did care to about why they pick or don't pick actors for anything. 

Why would doran on the tv show be her ally? he does not want war, he is not pro targ in anyway, and he has no plans for that in the show. Nothing in the show say otherwise. 

Ellaria is going to war with the lannister. Doran and his son would stop her so they were killed. The rest of dorne wants to go to war so they will support her. She will need help outside of dorne to get revenge so she will turn to Dany. That does not mean Dany needs her or anything else. that is just what i think is Ellaria's plan. 

[thehandwipes]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 5:08 PM, Good Guy Garlan said:

Both suck ass, to be honest.

(BTW, you should put a spoiler warning on it). 

Poor Preston Jacobs, tho. All his hopes and dreams of master plans and whatnot were death on arrival. 

Yeah, his Dornish Master Plan was always was always his most convoluted nonsensical over-analysis (and that's saying a lot).  This is the only Dornish-Master-Plan I need.

That having been said, Preston has put out a series of very good videos recently.  The Minds of Wolves and Robins, Alliances of Iron, and the Genetics of Dragons and War were all fantastic IMO.  He really upped his game, then he went back to Dorne and started going on about Quentyn being alive.

[thehandwipes]

12 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

see i agree with you i am just adding "Two sand snakes go to Esso to try to ally with Dany" 

I don't think they are staying in KL from what we have seen right now. 

I did care to about why they pick or don't pick actors for anything. 

Why would doran on the tv show be her ally? he does not want war, he is not pro targ in anyway, and he has no plans for that in the show. Nothing in the show say otherwise. 

Ellaria is going to war with the lannister. Doran and his son would stop her so they were killed. The rest of dorne wants to go to war so they will support her. She will need help outside of dorne to get revenge so she will turn to Dany. That does not mean Dany needs her or anything else. that is just what i think is Ellaria's plan. 

If she had the power to pull off a coup so easily why didn't she just have the palace guards smother Myrcella in her bedchambers last season.  And how God-awful a Captain of the Guards in Areo Hotah that he was completely unaware that his entire staff were loyal to Fellaria?

Not that it matters, they're just trying to clean up the shit storm that was last season.  I love seeing the way their minds work.  They got a lot of criticism for turning Dorne, where women are able to exercise power, into a Middle East themed brothel so they throw in a "girl-power" line along with some "badass" murder of innocent family members to fix it.  God, they are just shit writers.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think it may follow the books more closely than that.  My theory is that in the books they team up with Aegon, get their arse kicked.  Thus weakening Westeros further in the face of the oncoming Others.  In the show there is no Aegon so they'll have Dorne simply go to war without Aegon.  Either way will achieve the same end result.

Extremely doubtful. Aegon's going to be the one to give Daenerys a challenge for the Iron Throne.

Hence "a mummer's dragon is what you get to fight the hero"

No one on team Lannister is really a hero so Aegon is Dany's personal foe

Also you know the mummer's dragon showed up as a lie that Dany has to slay 

youre just going to have to accept that the show is making huge departures 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, Marcus Agrippa said:

Elliara Sands character isn't making much sense, but after looking at the book I can ironically see some of this happening with Arrianne, just under a much different meaning. So here is the book side should turn out

Arriane shows up with Aegon, Doran declines the marriage, Arrianne, fed up has the sand snakes move against Doran, doran dies and trystane is an accidental casuality in that mess instead of the purposeful murder.

 

Does it make sense? sorta... I am pushing it but its the only way the show and the book plot can be brought together. I always figured Doran would be killed by Varys or Aegon to be honest.

If Doran it's most likely going to be Daenerys or Darkstar who is going to kill him

its extremely likely that the main motivating figure behind Aegon battling Dany will be Doran 

Like I told the other guy I think we should take D & D at their word here 

 

“People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff told EW. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

[Marcus Agrippa]

1 minute ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

If Doran it's most likely going to be Daenerys or Darkstar who is going to kill him

its extremely likely that the main motivating figure behind Aegon battling Dany will be Doran 

Like I told the other guy I think we should take D & D at their word here 

 

“People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff told EW. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

I don't read interviews often, thats fair. I like this, and this is how it should be. I still think it will be varys who kills him- but dark star would be fine

[239JMFL34109]

9 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

If she had the power to pull off a coup so easily why didn't she just have the palace guards smother Myrcella in her bedchambers last season.  And how God-awful a Captain of the Guards in Areo Hotah that he was completely unaware that his entire staff were loyal to Fellaria?

Not that it matters, they're just trying to clean up the shit storm that was last season.  I love seeing the way their minds work.  They got a lot of criticism for turning Dorne, where women are able to exercise power, into a Middle East themed brothel so they throw in a "girl-power" line along with some "badass" murder of innocent family members to fix it.  God, they are just shit writers.

Who said she had the power last year? maybe she didn't they thought he was going to turn on the crown but didn't so they turn to support her?  Ellaria didn't want the messenger to get away so she probably does not have enough support that she wants the word to leak out. I bet next time we see her she does a speech about getting revenge through fire and blood before setting off to war. 

[thehandwipes]

7 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

Who said she had the power last year? maybe she didn't they thought he was going to turn on the crown but didn't so they turn to support her?  Ellaria didn't want the messenger to get away so she probably does not have enough support that she wants the word to leak out. I bet next time we see her she does a speech about getting revenge through fire and blood before setting off to war. 

So the palace guards were loyal until Doran made a very predictable decision that they disagreed with, then they all decided to slaughter what's left of the royal family to avenge the deaths of two members of the royal family.  Who let these people be palace guards?  How awful is Areo Hotah at his job?  And how the hell did those two SS get on Trystane's boat?!?

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

Who said she had the power last year? maybe she didn't they thought he was going to turn on the crown but didn't so they turn to support her?  Ellaria didn't want the messenger to get away so she probably does not have enough support that she wants the word to leak out. I bet next time we see her she does a speech about getting revenge through fire and blood before setting off to war. 

This is a major part of what is confusing so many people. The timing, and not just for the Dorne plot. If Ellaria had enough support to go through with this plan in episode 1, then that support should have been there at the finale S5. While I am not complaining that Dorne is being chopped away on screen, what happened last night did not feel planned out in advance.

This is what the director said about where we pick up:

the director replied, "...the show picks up where it left off last season. That's all I'll say on that subject."

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3803432

[Stonelands]

19 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

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How did the SS get back on the ship after it left? They were last seen standing with Ellaria watching it sail off..

 

And why wasn't Trystane with Jamie? Surely he would have wanted him as a hostage rather than letting stay on a boat on his own? Am I missing something?

[239JMFL34109]

11 minutes ago, Stonelands said:

And why wasn't Trystane with Jamie? Surely he would have wanted him as a hostage rather than letting stay on a boat on his own? Am I missing something?

So far it seems like Jaime assumes that it was a not doran, so there was no reason for him to stay? maybe in the show he thinks it was tyrion or etc... make sense if doran wanted her dead she would have dead long ago. 

24 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This is a major part of what is confusing so many people. The timing, and not just for the Dorne plot. If Ellaria had enough support to go through with this plan in episode 1, then that support should have been there at the finale S5. While I am not complaining that Dorne is being chopped away on screen, what happened last night did not feel planned out in advance.

This is what the director said about where we pick up:

the director replied, "...the show picks up where it left off last season. That's all I'll say on that subject."

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3803432

i think he was talking about jon, which it did. marcella died within sight of the doaks. took awhile to get to from dorne to KL. 

[The Fattest Leech]

17 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

So far it seems like Jaime assumes that it was a not doran, so there was no reason for him to stay? maybe in the show he thinks it was tyrion or etc... make sense if doran wanted her dead she would have dead long ago. 

i think he was talking about jon, which it did. marcella died within sight of the doaks. took awhile to get to from dorne to KL. 

I dunno know. That would mean that each story-line is running in its own time-frame that doesn't line up with everyone else. I can see if it was a few days, maybe 10 days past, but not months or weeks and weeks. Sansa was still running from Winterfell.

Other producers have made similar statements about the timing they refer to the show as a whole, not just one POV story.

"Hibberd says that “‘The Red Woman’ hits the ground at full sprint,” and that after season 5’s finale of cliffhangers, “this intense new hour picks up right where each left off.”

Watchersonthe wall even seems to think so http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-premiere-first-impressions-and-new-footage/

[Stag_legion]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

That still doesn't explain why Siddig is off the show and Can't Act Her Way Out of A Bag Keish Castle Hughs is still on the show.  Doran Martell could have been her ally.

Keeping the absolute worst characters out of a story line that doesn't work well even in the books and works less well in the show is dumb.  It guarantees that Dorne will continue to be cartoonish and silly...because the sand snakes are bad actresses wearing bad costumes and given bad lines.

I don't really fault the actresses, they ve been told to act cheesy and they weren't good pick for the role in the first place. I m actually willing to bet the actresses tried to take the role more seriously at some point but D&D told them to go for cheese, and so they did.

[239JMFL34109]

7 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I dunno know. That would mean that each story-line is running in its own time-frame that doesn't line up with everyone else. I can see if it was a few days, maybe 10 days past, but not months or weeks and weeks. Sansa was still running from Winterfell.

Other producers have made similar statements about the timing they refer to the show as a whole, not just one POV story.

"Hibberd says that “‘The Red Woman’ hits the ground at full sprint,” and that after season 5’s finale of cliffhangers, “this intense new hour picks up right where each left off.”

Watchersonthe wall even seems to think so http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-premiere-first-impressions-and-new-footage/

The producers all seem to be talking about starting right after jon died to me.

Hibberd is a reviewer not any body on the show. When the reviewer does it i don't care that much. they are viewers just like us. Again you could still see the boat from the doak. the writers just cut to the emotional important stop to the cliffhanger which always was cersei finding out about her daughter's death. 

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

The producers all seem to be talking about starting right after jon died to me.

Hibberd is a reviewer not any body on the show. When the reviewer does it i don't care that much. they are viewers just like us. Again you could still see the boat from the doak. the writers just cut to the emotional important stop to the cliffhanger which always was cersei finding out about her daughter's death. 

But what I meant was, other showrunners/producers, have also made comments that the show, as an entirety, is starting where it left off. Also, this seems to be confusing other people as well, reviewers and viewers alike.

How would you place the timeline?

When they cut the other part of the story, they cut the links and the visuals that tell the story. Clearly it left many questioning the process of it all, which detracts from the show.

Ellaria had to have her support last season. How the hell would she have been able to rally and convince the entirety of the surrounding guards to just sit there as she attacked this early in the season?

And why would anyone in Dorne be ok with a paramour and a few bastards killing the final bloodline of Nymeria... which essentially is murder and usurping?

[Stonelands]

32 minutes ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

So far it seems like Jaime assumes that it was a not doran, so there was no reason for him to stay? maybe in the show he thinks it was tyrion or etc... make sense if doran wanted her dead she would have dead long ago. 

Surely his "We're going to take everything they've taken from us and more." line kind of implies that he intends to hold Dorne and the Sand Snakes accountable. You'd think he would want Trystane for this purpose.

[239JMFL34109]

5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

But what I meant was, other showrunners/producers, have also made comments that the show, as an entirety, is starting where it left off. Also, this seems to be confusing other people as well, reviewers and viewers alike.

How would you place the timeline?

I think people are just talking about how it start off right where it ended. which is true ended with jon's starts with jon.

jaime while having his daughter was sailing away and she died and they were still right next to dorne, So we know it take a while for them to get to KL.  I don't need timecode stamp it. time has to  pass between getting to one place and the other. We just don't know the amount of time. 

as far as timeline? until one storyline on a tv, book, comics, or etc.  interacts with another it doesn't really matter. the time between scene can be months, years, or nothing. 

there is nothing to prove that sansa and brienne meeting this episode didn't take place before jon's death. what matters is that when the storyline converge that they are at the same place in time.  

18 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

When they cut the other part of the story, they cut the links and the visuals that tell the story. Clearly it left many questioning the process of it all, which detracts from the show.

Ellaria had to have her support last season. How the hell would she have been able to rally and convince the entirety of the surrounding guards to just sit there as she attacked this early in the season?

And why would anyone in Dorne be ok with a paramour and a few bastards killing the final bloodline of Nymeria... which essentially is murder and usurping?

These are question i see all the time in tv shows, comics, manga, and etc fandoms. i don't think it is because they cut links. Like star wars recently how much time take place between starkiller base explosion and the final between scenes in the movie? Between that panel and this panel of avengers how much time passed? between that scene and that scene of better call saul how long has it been? These questions often happen too in some of the great meda cause they play with the assumptions of the audience for dramatic effect.

ellaria had enough time her daughter's hair to grow between season 5 and 6. what was that then a couple of weeks? a month? months? We don't know. doran could still be alive when they kill his son or if he died well before, We only know that trystane died after jaime arrived in KL because he was on the same ship that jaime had been after it start to sail away from KL. 

The bastards are also the bloodline of Nymeria and because they wanted to depose him cause they wanted war seems to be the line. Something they have been saying for a while is that people want to go to war in dorne.  Maybe to them he has become a lannister dog? 

[Winter's Cold]

Perhaps Doran lost support after he released Jaime Lannister (the person who killed the Mad King instead of protecting Princess Elia and her children). I don't imagine sending his heir Trystane to a place where both his other siblings died was considered a wise choice either. He also gave back Princess Myrcella, his most valuable hostage/guest other than Jaime. 

These actions make it appear as though Doran is siding with the Lannisters, the people responsible for the deaths of Elia, Oberyn, Rhaenys and Aegon. Thus it does make sense for him to lose significant support directly afterwards. Why would his guards be loyal to a Lannister dog (from their point of view)?