Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The Truth

So where in the heck was Trystane?

Recommended Posts

Brienne is another 10 second fix.  Show Brienne return to watching for Sansa, see the Candle that Replaces the Sun (because f*** anything about Loras besides gay sex), see the Bolton hunting party with dogs leave Winterfell, and have Brienne just turn and start running as if to her horse.  

ETA:  And before anyone says anything about time, this was something like a 47 minute episode.  Another minute (say 30 seconds for Brienne and Sand Snakes rowing) is actually pushing it closer to what I expect than towards too long.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand how anyone would be confused by this. They just traveled to Kingslanding and it took roughly the same amount of time it took Trystane and Jamie.

Did  you need a scene where Ser Barristan books a trip to Essos? Or could you figure out how that works?

I'm shocked that everyone would thinking wasting time showing sand snakes on a boat would make this episode better. The episode had so little time for everything else. You might as well be asking how all the characters, except Tywin, survive for 4 years without pooping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tadco26 said:

Even if we say they took another boat, why did they bother?  Why not kill Doran and Tristan and Jaime and Myrcella before they even left Dorne?  What changed between the time Jaime and company was allowed to leave safely and the guards being completely fine with the Sand Snakes murdering their prince in front of them?  Why did the guards who hate their prince so much even stop the Sand Snakes from killing Jaime and Myrcella and imprison them in the first place? 

 

Tristan went to King's Landing with Jaime, but didn't come to shore with him for some unknown reason?  The sand snakes declared they were going to kill Tristan ahead of time as if they wanted to have some sort of duel, but then stabbed him in the back. Couldn't they just walk up to him and kill him without him even suspecting them as a threat?  Even when they were threatening him he made it clear he didn't want to fight them.

Why did the Sand Snakes wait until Doran found out about Myrcella to kill him?  Just waiting for dramatic effect?

THIS!  If the Sand Snakes knew they were going to kill Trystane, why not kiss him the way they kissed Myrcella.  Hell - kiss Jaime too.  If indeed the Crew was in the Sand Snake's pocket (as someone above alleged in order to "explain away a clear PLOT HOLE), they had complete control over killing anyone they wanted.  So why, Why, WHY would the snakes kill Myrcella, allow Trystane to go to KL, find another boat and travel ALL THE WAY TO KL, hope that Trystane was not whisked away to the red keep immediately upon arrival, get on board the ship, and then kill him off?  Seems like an awful lot of work for the same result.

The answer?  PLOT HOLE.  These show runners can cast, coordinate synchronous filming in different countries, hire the best costume and makeup people.  But they cant tell a story for crap.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i thought dornish were very cool people and very big heart and love for bastards. now they perfectly ruined this on show by killing myrcella for stupid reasons.

dorne had been fighting targaryen last 300yrs and they never declared war or marched to attack on KL.

why in the seven hells only now after 300yrs would they go for killing thier own prince and heir?  only coz its season 6 and episode writer of this show wants KL to get surrounded by invader on all sides just for fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Supposedly the scroll Doran got was from Jaime, and in it he explains he sent Trystane back home for his own safety as soon as Myrcella died, because while he doesn't blame Doran, he's certain Cersei is going to want war (or at least Ellaria and the Snakes' heads).

http://i.imgur.com/vKOtDA8.jpg?1

Though once again, we apparently have to watch the supplemental special shows to see these things since we're not shown them in the actual show (Ramsay's note to Robb in season 3 episode 1 answering the "Why Is Winterfell Burning?" cliffhanger also comes to mind) and we don't even have someone read the whole note aloud which, clunky exposition as it would be, would at least be an explanation for the audience.

If the note has information we the audience should know, we need to either be able to see it long enough to read it ourselves or at least have a character read it to us.

It's a reasonable enough explanation.  Jaime doesn't want to put Doran over a barrel because he believes it's not his fault, so he passes on the chance to take Trystane hostage (also Cersei would probably straight up have him killed, too).  Trystane going back home puts him in range of Whippy Spice and Spear Spice, and of course if they're going all in on the coup they're going to assassinate him along with Doran.

But, I mean, like, you know, let us at least have the explanation in the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Desert Fox said:

I don't understand how anyone would be confused by this. They just traveled to Kingslanding and it took roughly the same amount of time it took Trystane and Jamie.

Did  you need a scene where Ser Barristan books a trip to Essos? Or could you figure out how that works?

I'm shocked that everyone would thinking wasting time showing sand snakes on a boat would make this episode better. The episode had so little time for everything else. You might as well be asking how all the characters, except Tywin, survive for 4 years without pooping.

I agree. That's needless nitpicking on the show that has a lot of other things to be criticized about other than refusing to show how people travel, to get a surprise scene. What is the point of wasting time on the show about showing or mentioning about Sand Snakes traveling and Brianne showing up in a nick of time? While GRRM has huge books and is able to devote huge amount of pages describing minute details like patterns on the dresses, and all dishes at a feast, the show is time constrained. Its not a big deal for viewers to make the connection how those characters got there and most did. 

1) Brianne killed Stannis within sight of Winterfell, its not a leap of faith nor a torturous logic to assume that when she heard hounds (who actually could be heard for miles) she would pursue them to investigate the commotion? 

2) When Myrcella died, the ship was still within sight of Dorne harbor where Sand Snakes stood, no more than couple of hours difference, if they took a ship immediately after, its not a big deal to assume that Dorne ship that brought Jaime and Trystane to Kings Landing was parked there long enough to furl sails and for at least half a day, and Snakes had more than enough time to reach Kings Landing and sneak on-board.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Salad Days Saan said:

Supposedly the scroll Doran got was from Jaime, and in it he explains he sent Trystane back home for his own safety as soon as Myrcella died, because while he doesn't blame Doran, he's certain Cersei is going to want war (or at least Ellaria and the Snakes' heads).

http://i.imgur.com/vKOtDA8.jpg?1

Though once again, we apparently have to watch the supplemental special shows to see these things since we're not shown them in the actual show (Ramsay's note to Robb in season 3 episode 1 answering the "Why Is Winterfell Burning?" cliffhanger also comes to mind) and we don't even have someone read the whole note aloud which, clunky exposition as it would be, would at least be an explanation for the audience.

If the note has information we the audience should know, we need to either be able to see it long enough to read it ourselves or at least have a character read it to us.

It's a reasonable enough explanation.  Jaime doesn't want to put Doran over a barrel because he believes it's not his fault, so he passes on the chance to take Trystane hostage (also Cersei would probably straight up have him killed, too).  Trystane going back home puts him in range of Whippy Spice and Spear Spice, and of course if they're going all in on the coup they're going to assassinate him along with Doran.

But, I mean, like, you know, let us at least have the explanation in the show.

So wait, the Sand Snakes intercept the ship at sea?  

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're also sea snakes, DUH.

That'll be in the note from Ellaria to Cersei that we don't get to see unless we also watch After The Thrones next week. :)

 

Look Dorne is a lost plotthread at this point, I'll just take them admitting defeat and killing off everyone in it rather than breaking it worse by continuing to try and salvage it.  And since they left your dude JonCon out of it from the start, it's not even essential to the show's version of the narrative anymore.

#EuthanizeShowDorne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Masha said:

I agree. That's needless nitpicking on the show that has a lot of other things to be criticized about other than refusing to show how people travel, to get a surprise scene. What is the point of wasting time on the show about showing or mentioning about Sand Snakes traveling and Brianne showing up in a nick of time? While GRRM has huge books and is able to devote huge amount of pages describing minute details like patterns on the dresses, and all dishes at a feast, the show is time constrained. Its not a big deal for viewers to make the connection how those characters got there and most did. 

1) Brianne killed Stannis within sight of Winterfell, its not a leap of faith nor a torturous logic to assume that when she heard hounds (who actually could be heard for miles) she would pursue them to investigate the commotion? 

2) When Myrcella died, the ship was still within sight of Dorne harbor where Sand Snakes stood, no more than couple of hours difference, if they took a ship immediately after, its not a big deal to assume that Dorne ship that brought Jaime and Trystane to Kings Landing was parked there long enough to furl sails and for at least half a day, and Snakes had more than enough time to reach Kings Landing and sneak on-board.

 

 

 

 

But why take the boat and chase them to KL?  Why not just kill Trystane the way they killed Myrcella?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Desert Fox said:

I don't understand how anyone would be confused by this. They just traveled to Kingslanding and it took roughly the same amount of time it took Trystane and Jamie.

Did  you need a scene where Ser Barristan books a trip to Essos? Or could you figure out how that works?

I'm shocked that everyone would thinking wasting time showing sand snakes on a boat would make this episode better. The episode had so little time for everything else. You might as well be asking how all the characters, except Tywin, survive for 4 years without pooping.

So, the Sand Snakes traveled all the way to KL in order to kill Trystane. Fine.

That means that they departed from Dorne shortly after his ship, right?

 So that means that they planned to kill him even before he embarked in the first place, right?

So why didn't they simply killed him in Dorne then? If their plan always was to kill Trystane and Doran, why wait? They could have killed Jaime and Bronn too, and there wouldn't even be any proof that they killed Myrcella in the fist place.

But lets forget about that and pretend that going to KL to kill Trystane was a good plan, how could they predict that Trystane would stay in the boat after reaching KL? Jaime would either see Trystane as guilty or complicit of his daughter death, in which case he would certainly be a prisoner and be transferred to the black cells, or trust that he had nothing to do about it, in which case he would certainly be given a chamber in the Red Keep.

But no, he conveniently stayed in the boat because the plot needed it.

Same argument holds still even knowing about Jaime's scroll. How could they predict it? (That's without talking about the stupidity of this scroll. if Jaime's plan was to send him back, why didn't they just went back to Dorne just after Myrcella died?They were a couple hours gone at most, lol).

But lets pretend that it made sense that he stayed inside the boat. Said boat is anchored just outside the Red Keep, certainly a place where you would imagine access is limited. The boat was clearly announced before arriving, and it's logical to think that it was allowed to go there by somebody. But now we have to believe that another boat was able to go there too (even if a small one) in order for the SS to infiltrate it.  I wonder how people in the Red Keep can feel safe with such  an incompetent City Watch protecting them.

Another solution was for the SS to infiltrate the ship still during the journey, staying hidden until they reached KL. But then again, why wait? Why not kill him, get out and go back to Dorne like nothing happened? Or even more badass, surprising and shocking, if you really want that kind of story, why not attack the other ship and sink it, and then spreading word that a tempest sank it, killing all the passengers and getting you off the hook? Or if they predicted that Jaime would send him back to Dorne, why not just wait for him and kill him when he arrive?

So,you see, everyone can create some crazy explanation to justify the scene, but this doesn't mean the scene is without problems.

People are just making things up to try to justify a stupid plan, but knowing if it's really possible or not is not the problem, the problem is that the plan is stupid in the first place.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Masha said:

2) When Myrcella died, the ship was still within sight of Dorne harbor where Sand Snakes stood, no more than couple of hours difference, if they took a ship immediately after, its not a big deal to assume that Dorne ship that brought Jaime and Trystane to Kings Landing was parked there long enough to furl sails and for at least half a day, and Snakes had more than enough time to reach Kings Landing and sneak on-board.

Why would they do that when they could just have kissed him like Myrcella and be done with it? Instead, they decided to make a dangerous boat trip during weeks and hoped that everything would turn out miraculously as they planned after reaching KL.

They must be bad gamblers, replacing a certain plan for a dubious one at best, and a time consuming one at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even notice that when watching, to be honest. I stopped expecting this show to make sense a long time ago, especially the Dornish abomination of a plotline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Table8 said:

THIS!  If the Sand Snakes knew they were going to kill Trystane, why not kiss him the way they kissed Myrcella.  Hell - kiss Jaime too.  If indeed the Crew was in the Sand Snake's pocket (as someone above alleged in order to "explain away a clear PLOT HOLE), they had complete control over killing anyone they wanted.  So why, Why, WHY would the snakes kill Myrcella, allow Trystane to go to KL, find another boat and travel ALL THE WAY TO KL, hope that Trystane was not whisked away to the red keep immediately upon arrival, get on board the ship, and then kill him off?  Seems like an awful lot of work for the same result.

The answer?  PLOT HOLE.  These show runners can cast, coordinate synchronous filming in different countries, hire the best costume and makeup people.  But they cant tell a story for crap.

 

 

Regardless of how massive a plothole them getting abroad the boat is, I'd say they journeyed to KL hidden on THIS boat. And aren't just in KL for Trystane either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have been complaining for years now over the amazing fast travel ability that characters develop when it is convenient to plot.  I pinned it on the gold chocobo last season

Characters should be considered lucky if they get screen time for both parting and arriving scene since often they don't get that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Denam_Pavel said:

Regardless of how massive a plothole them getting abroad the boat is, I'd say they journeyed to KL hidden on THIS boat. And aren't just in KL for Trystane either.

They were still on the docks after Myrcellas death, when the boat was already on the horizon. So no, they didn't travel on this boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't need to be very creative to think....

Killing Tristan in KL could be considered a Lannister action.  If Jamie/Cersi had killed Tristan then the Sand Snakes would have been happy and Doran would not have needed to be killed.  Since Jamie did not (the note), they had to step in.  Maybe the Sand Snakes were sent to KL for other reasons as well with the additional assignment that if the Lannisters did not kill Tristan then they should?  

 

To assume what we saw is as flawed also assumes you know exactly what is going on which none of us really do.  It is what it is, flow with it and see where it goes.  If you don't like the end result then stamp your feet and shake your fists.  I think it's premature to do that now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Table8 said:

But why take the boat and chase them to KL?  Why not just kill Trystane the way they killed Myrcella?

Maybe they have something else to do in Kings Landing, like say murder Tommen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe maybe maybe they're going to stay in King's landing and fulfil Nymeria and Tyene's roles in The Winds of Winter. So Obara on the small council and Nymeria with the Faith? 
And then Ellaria rules Dorne with her daughter Tyene...? 

I know that'd be weird but I'm just trying to think of where Dorne is heading now... :/ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Valetudo said:

They were still on the docks after Myrcellas death, when the boat was already on the horizon. So no, they didn't travel on this boat.

It's a sailboat, it needs favorable winds to get places. And KL was quite a bit further away then the horizon respective of the docks in the Water Gardens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×