Lady Fishbiscuit Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Arya Gendry said: Thank you! I totally agree that the Karstarks are faking Ramsay out. Sure, they're upset about Lord Rickard, but is that enough to turn the entire North against the Starks? Or more importantly, would the other houses be willing to risk everything to side with them against Ramsay of all people? A bastard who imprisoned a Lady of the North and starved her to death? I think it's brilliant. Convince the son to kill the father so that the son is left without anyone to keep his impulses in check. RE: Rickon. If he made it to the Last Hearth (with Osha & Shaggy) and the Umbers have been protecting him, could he have revealed his warging abilities? If so, giving him to Ramsay could get interesting. Totally agree. Anyone who was truly on Team Bolton would not let Ramsay kill off Roose and it seemed obvious that the murder was no surprise to Harald Karstark. Ooh, interesting thought on Rickon warging! Hadn't considered that. So much we don't know about him and GRRM loves to give us great things from the underestimated underdog type characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynthFG Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Its almost inevitable that it is Rikon that will provide the gift The big fear here is that the show which this series has spent the first 2 episodes closing out several plotlines will take the opportunity to do so again, tho not sure how Hungry Ramsay's Bitches will be after their recent feast However should Ramsay decide to keep Rikon around and not do a Theon on him it could make for an interesting dynamic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Wow, we're really getting into tin foil territory here. Have you guys not been watching the show? They don't need reasons for anything. They do things just to do them if it advances the narrative where they need it, even someone that loves the show can see that. Karstarks. They're not siding with the Starks. Karstarks dont care about the betrayal of the Red Wedding. They weren't even at the RW in the show...at that point any Karstark man would have already went to Karhold. Why did Harald let Ramsay kill Roose? Why does he care...maybe they ultimately benefit from chaos...maybe Harald and Ramsay are BFF's. Harald is simply going to be a lackey to Ramsay on the show. Umbers. Who knows. We "know" Osha and Rickon went to the Last Hearth, we know that the actor playing Smalljon is bringing Ramsay a gift. We know that the show needs a reason for Jon/Sansa/Stark loyalists to fight the Ramsay forces. This is a nice neat little giftwrapped plot device. It doesn't have to make any more sense than that. That now gives us looming/scary Ramsay and Rickon for drama for a handful of episodes so we don't forget Ramsay is "mean", and he can send some type of letter to the wall/Jon..we know room the trailer he says "Winterfell is mine"...he could easily be dictating some type of pinkish letter to Jon. He's got Rickon (Mance)...he wants Sansa (fArya) and Stannis is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishdame Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 In the books, the Umbers are adamantly anti-wildling; given the location of Last Hearth so close to the Wall, they have repeatedly been victims of wildling raiders - perhaps the timing of the "gift" is related to Jon letting the wildlings through the Wall? The Karstark lord made a point of mentioning Jon and him being considered a Stark regardless of his bastardy. If the wildlings have been camping just south of the Wall, it is not impossible that the Umbers could get wind of that and see it as a betrayal of northern values and traditions, leading to them throwing their lot in with the Boltons. It is the only explanation I can come up with as to why they would act against the Starks, other than them working both sides - and if they are playing both sides, why hand over Rickon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Your reasoning is sound...that's why I don't believe they'll use it. Unfortunately it'll probably be "just 'cuz". It'll be interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Inc Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 It's probably just some snow shoes for Ramsey and his 20 good men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On May 2, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Punting on the Honeywine said: Just saw the preview for this episode... please please please don't be Rickon. I think his Gift will the land south of the wall called The Gift. he will invade and take The Gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyll41 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 It's Ollie and the Stabbers. Now deserters from the NW. Ramsey follows the law and gets to kill them. He's happy and the show gets to stay shallow! Burning traitors on the way to winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I think it will be Rickon but Ramsay will not kill him, will try to get his Reek and Sansa back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knight of Night Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 On 5/4/2016 at 11:06 AM, Stargaryen81 said: That is a very interesting point, way better way to explain it not being rickon then some of these attempts. However, the same thing holds true. If the umbers only show fealty then the show watchers know they are lying to the Boltons because we assume Rickon is there. We then know the Bolton's are screwed. That is not good writing knowing the bad guys are screwed. it is always the good guy rebel going against the odds to win, is far more compelling story telling. I don't think it is fealty either because once the SmallJon says I have something for you he looks to be turning behind him with his hand out. Meaning there is something behind them. The north doesn't bring jewels and riches to pay fealty, they just pay fealty with words. The show will be far more compelling if it is actual Rickon and the Umbers become an oathbreaker. There will prob be a lot of oathbrakers in this episode not just one main one. Maybe Littlefinger's fealty... playing both sides. We see him back in the North in the first trailer and it was said that the scenes were from the first 3 episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Gendry Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 17 hours ago, White Harbors Wrath said: Wow, we're really geeatting into tin foil territory here. Have you guys not been watching the show? They don't need reasons for anything. They do things just to do them if it advances the narrative where they need it, even someone that loves the show can see that. I know, I know. But a girl can dream. I still hope that Theon will regain his strength and control of the Seastone Chair, that he will marry Sansa and they will unite the North and the Iron Islands, and Sansa won't care that he's a eunuch because she never wants to be intimate with a man again. I also hope that Nymeria will reappear in some awesome way, and that Dorne will fall victim to an avian flu that decimates the population. So, Theon and Sansa and Nymeria will probably die and the Dornish will claim the Iron Throne. But a girl can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastLibrarian Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 On 2/5/2016 at 8:03 AM, Punting on the Honeywine said: Just saw the preview for this episode... please please please don't be Rickon. Maisie Williams confirms the return of Rickon Stark http://winteriscoming.net/2016/05/05/maisie-williams-confirms-the-return-of-an-important-character/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrek Lannister Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I only hope that either the Umbers will provide Ramsay with fRickon or Rickon will somehow survive the ordeal. In the show Ramsay: 1. Tortured Theon and made him his toy. 2. Defeated Ironborn shirtless. 3. Secured Moat Cailin and was legitimized. 4. Destroyed Stannis' forces with "20 good men". 5. Raped Sansa. 6. Killed his father, stepmother and newborn half-brother. Enough is enough. It's time for karma to bite him in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 16 minutes ago, Gendry Rowers said: Enough is enough. It's time for karma to bite him in the ass. It will, when the Others go south of the Wall and not before. Ramsay is our hate so much so we can understand the Starks siding with the Others character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 As per Ramsay's line in the trailer, "Do you like games, little man?" I expect he will get Rickon & Co in the next episode, but Rickon won't be brutally offed before ep 9 or thereabouts. After all, we need to see him being abused by Ramsay, or else we might not "get" that Ramsay is the bad guy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 If Ramsay dies who is left for us to really hate in the show? The Freys? The Lannisters are broken. I don't think Ramsay is going anywhere for a hot minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 4 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said: If Ramsay dies who is left for us to really hate in the show? The Freys? The Lannisters are broken. I don't think Ramsay is going anywhere for a hot minute. Next "bad boy" Villain Sue, Euron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Yep. Euron is exactly right. Ramsay introduced, Joffrey dies...crank Ramsay to 11. Euron introduced, Ramsay dies...crank Euron to 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Snow Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I would say Ramsay is safe till episode nine when the seasonal big battle always happens. I mean, its hard to hard a huge battle of one of the commanders is already dead. As far as who will be left for us to hate? Easy, the Others. If there are only 13 episodes left after this season, the Others will more then likely be coming through the wall at the end of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 44 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Next "bad boy" Villain Sue, Euron. You think? I actually like Euron, he is one of my favorite book characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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