She's back

[Lady Lyanna Mormont]

11 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Bad examples, they all married into the royal family.

It also seems to depend to a degree on who is speaking, which House is more important, how the woman identifies herself, etc.

I don't understand why they didn't keep the name Meribald (well, not like it was spoken on screen), septon Ray sounds almost like septon Joe.

But Catelyn identifies herself as a Tully and so everyone else... so she's still "not" a Stark as in the sense of being considered the third dead Stark.

I don't know either. But tbf, the Elder Brother saves the Hound so they might have combined both characters into "Septon Ray"

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

49 minutes ago, Lady Lyanna Mormont said:

So... is that a typo, you're being funny and I'm not getting because of cultural barriers or did they really changed his name? Though I just checked, it was the Elder Brother who found the Hound so I'm guessing that on the show they combined him with Meribald and we got "Ray". Oy!

Except, Catelyn is a Tully. The women don't change Houses when they get married. Cersei Lannister, Margaery Tyrell, Ellia Martel... Though Catelyn's sister, Lysa, is known as a Arryn and the Queen of Thornes as a Tyrell. I'd say the third dead Stark would be Rickon, since he's in Ramsay's hands and that doesn't look good for the boy 

No I was being serious.  D&D called him Ray in the after show.  There was also an article I read today that called him Ray.  

 

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ian_McShane

[The Mighty Conch]

I hope that she is not back. What purpose would her coming back serve toward moving the story along in the tv universe? Everyone has to remember that these are not the books. Yes, they must be faithful to the "spirit" of the books and nail some specific touch stones but it must be heavily streamlined. I feel like normal viewers would not enjoy seeing someone else rise from the dead. And to be honest- I never really liked Catelyn. So that may actually be the driving force behind this opinion.

[Daemos]

At this point I don't what LSH to come back because too many have come back this season. Benjen, Sandor, Jon. Granted the former two weren't absolutely killed, but were presumed dead by many. Death in GoT shouldn't lose its permanence or power (even though it has in the books in some capacity). 

At the very least, space out these resurrections better. Otherwise the show will jump the shark. 

[Tullywacker]

Those were definitely BWB men.  That was Lemoncloak.  And the whole "the night is dark and full of terrors" thing.  That was clearly an intentional clue to tell the viewers who they were.

 They recognized Sandor.  That's why they murdered all of those people, including the septon.  Because they were harboring the hound.  They wouldn't have done that if Beric Dondarion was their leader.  They clearly have a new leader.  Someone who is ruthless and cruel to anyone who is even loosely connected to the freys or lannisters.

LSH is a near certainty.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Will this cause Jaime to break his vow?

[JonisHenryTudor]

1 hour ago, Darren Allen said:

Maybe. He is a Stark, after all.

And the winter (soldier) is coming.

Dam you had to go there .

[ummester]

Why are people so hung up on Stoneheart? She is obviously foreshadowing/laying the groundwork for Jon to come back in books and, considering he already has in show, I don't know why the inclusion of her character makes any difference at this point?

[JonisHenryTudor]

6 minutes ago, ummester said:

Why are people so hung up on Stoneheart? She is obviously foreshadowing/laying the groundwork for Jon to come back in books and, considering he already has in show, I don't know why the inclusion of her character makes any difference at this point?

Because people want grey zombies.... 

I think people want her back because that would mean a "rage against the Freys"...so. 

[Shireen Purratheon]

5 minutes ago, ummester said:

Why are people so hung up on Stoneheart? She is obviously foreshadowing/laying the groundwork for Jon to come back in books and, considering he already has in show, I don't know why the inclusion of her character makes any difference at this point?

Heh, hung up.

36 minutes ago, Tullywacker said:

Those were definitely BWB men.  That was Lemoncloak.  And the whole "the night is dark and full of terrors" thing.  That was clearly an intentional clue to tell the viewers who they were.

 They recognized Sandor.  That's why they murdered all of those people, including the septon.  Because they were harboring the hound.  They wouldn't have done that if Beric Dondarion was their leader.  They clearly have a new leader.  Someone who is ruthless and cruel to anyone who is even loosely connected to the freys or lannisters.

LSH is a near certainty.

That was exactly what I told my non book reading watching companions. There's no way that wasn't Lem on that horse. They went out of their way to give that guy a bright yellow cloak for a reason. And if it was Lem, that means it was the BWB. And Beric wouldn't have condoned that, so we know it's not Beric anymore.

I wasn't expecting her to actually make an appearance until last night. Lem hanging Meribald convinces me.

[CrypticWeirwood]

There is so much hate here. About everything. And about this.

But this is George’s will that it be done, and so one must withhold the spite.

[Cas Stark]

24 minutes ago, ummester said:

Why are people so hung up on Stoneheart? She is obviously foreshadowing/laying the groundwork for Jon to come back in books and, considering he already has in show, I don't know why the inclusion of her character makes any difference at this point?

I have never agreed with this.  All we needed for 'groundwork" for Jon's resurrection was Beric, there was no need to add in Stoneheart.  Stoneheart has nothing to do with Jon or laying any groundwork for his story.  

People are hung up on Stoneheart because some of us loved her for hanging Freys and getting justice and being undead but still holding her murdered son's crown.

[ummester]

7 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

 

34 minutes ago, ummester said:

Why are people so hung up on Stoneheart? She is obviously foreshadowing/laying the groundwork for Jon to come back in books and, considering he already has in show, I don't know why the inclusion of her character makes any difference at this point?

I have never agreed with this.  All we needed for 'groundwork" for Jon's resurrection was Beric, there was no need to add in Stoneheart.  Stoneheart has nothing to do with Jon or laying any groundwork for his story.  

People are hung up on Stoneheart because some of us loved her for hanging Freys and getting justice and being undead but still holding her murdered son's crown.

 

You don't think she kind of cheapens the impact of the Red Wedding - like not only Robb died but Cat did also, on, don't worry, scrap that, Cat's back - ?

I liked that she couldn't speak properly and rasped through her neck hole in the book - I would like to see that in show. But, other than that, I just never got the Stoneheart love. Vengeful undead mother is not too different to any wronged person coming back from the grave to exact vengeance as seen in countless horror tales.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, ummester said:

You don't think she kind of cheapens the impact of the Red Wedding - like not only Robb died but Cat did also, on, don't worry, scrap that, Cat;s back.

I liked that she couldn't speak properly and rasped through her nick hole in the book - I would like to see that in show. But, other than that, I just never got the Stoneheart love. Vengeful undead mother is not too different to any wronged person coming back from the grave to exact vengeance as seen in countless horror tales.

Me, personally, I needed a lift at the end of Swords.  A little hope.  Stoneheart provided that.

Vengeful undead, sure, it's nothing new.  Neither is the secret prince raised by his X, who finds out his heritage and destiny, or prophecy or magic swords and magic candles.  As the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun.

I understand some people really disliked the resurrection, just as some people really disliked the Cersei prophecy and some people really dislike Dorne POVs.  Mileage varies.

I love Stoneheart and I want her to get a good ending, like dying after she sees Arya.  I'm sure I will be denied that by the author, but since I may not read the rest of the books, it won't matter so much.  LOL.

 

[RhaenysBee]

There is absolutely no need for Stoneheart in the show at this point. Mind you, there was absolutely no need for Stoneheart in the books either. 

If they do bring her back, it is in my opinion because they are cowards. Instead of starting wrapping up the storylines on their own, they keep reaching back for stuff from the books already published that they had previously decided to exclude (with good reason, might I add). I wonder how they will cope with season 7 and 8 which they obviously have to do without any book material. So they should really let go of the books and do their own thing instead of going back and bringing in more book stuff for filler. 

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

There is absolutely no need for Stoneheart in the show at this point. Mind you, there was absolutely no need for Stoneheart in the books either. 

If they do bring her back, it is in my opinion because they are cowards. Instead of starting wrapping up the storylines on their own, they keep reaching back for stuff from the books already published that they had previously decided to exclude (with good reason, might I add). I wonder how they will cope with season 7 and 8 which they obviously have to do without any book material. So they should really let go of the books and do their own thing instead of going back and bringing in more book stuff for filler. 

I think the problem is that "their own thing" isn't very good without the author's roadmap to build from.  "Their own thing" was the 100% stupidity of the Dorne plot, Olly, Iron born afraid of dogs, Sansa marrying Ramsay to get revenge.....  They were brave enough to cut Arianne and Aegon, and marry Sansa to Ramsay, why would they be afraid to cut Stoneheart?

If Stoneheart is in, it's because they like SHOCKS!  And they finally lulled the vast majority into thinking she was cut, so it would be just like them to bring her back, not for story or plot but shock.  That's it.  That's how they roll.

[Tianzi]

1 hour ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

Because people want grey zombies.... 

I think people want her back because that would mean a "rage against the Freys"...so. 

Actually, yes. Jon came back way too shiny.

[JonisHenryTudor]

14 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Actually, yes. Jon came back way too shiny.

Hahaha I am fine with the way Jon came back. If he returned with blue eyes, then I would be happy. But coming back with hair falling out, skin falling off, and a limp in his leg...well...that's too much. 

 

Besides... I don't think he is dead in the books. 

[Tianzi]

1 minute ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

Hahaha I am fine with the way Jon came back. If he returned with blue eyes, then I would be happy. But coming back with hair falling out, skin falling off, and a limp in his leg...well...that's too much. 

 

Besides... I don't think he is dead in the books. 

But he was in the show and he returned like from a spa, with a new haircut, abs freshly massaged by Mel and free of his pesky vows.

She had hair falling out because she ripped them, skin was from quality time in water, and the throat, well, obvious thing. I understand Jon was in a better shape, but seriously, Edward Cullen makes a better undead than him.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Othor and Jafer Flowers were undead when they attacked Lord Mormont early on.

Beric is not undead, and neither are Jon or Benjen or Catelyn. They are all merely postdead, not undead. It's an important distinction that's likely lost on zombie-obsessed teenagers.  

Well, Beric excepted by now.  He's probably postpostdead — in other words, deaddead.