I'm pleased with how few TWOW spoilers there seem to be this season

[SerMixalot]

2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

You have no idea that Tyrion won't be ruling Meereen  in the next books. Selmy  is almost certain to die and Tyrion is right there, clearly going to have some effect on the city.

As I said, how these things happen might be different but the major plot beats will be there, with plenty of spoilers.

 

I would bet 10 Lamprey Pies that Tyrion never rules Mereen.  I figure it better than 50-50 he never even sets foot inside the city

[SerMixalot]

3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I don't see Cleganebowl happening at all in the books. Right now the Hound is on the QI and if you look on a map, the QI is rather close to the Vale where a certain tourney is about to happen and a certain identity reveal is also about to happen. I'll give you a hint, it's in the Alayne Winds released chapter. But that is just my theory. I'm sure others have their own thoughts on it and we will know for sure when Winds is released. 

Wait, secret identity reveal? Vale-as in Vicki Vale?  Winds?  Bats have Wings!  Hound as in Ace the Bat Hound.

LITTLEFINGER IS BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, SerMixalot said:

Wait, secret identity reveal? Vale-as in Vicki Vale?  Winds?  Bats have Wings!  Hound as in Ace the Bat Hound.

LITTLEFINGER IS BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shit. You just spilled the book 

[SerMixalot]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

Shit. You just spilled the book 

Yep, spilled it all over the place.

[StepStark]

11 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

You have no idea that Tyrion won't be ruling Meereen  in the next books. Selmy  is almost certain to die and Tyrion is right there, clearly going to have some effect on the city.

As I said, how these things happen might be different but the major plot beats will be there, with plenty of spoilers.

 

Unlike you, I'm going to read the next book, so I'll let you know what happened there.

[Maid So Fair]

For me, it's actually a bit worrying. It means that they will need to cram 2+ worth of content of books into less than 1.5 show seasons. It's going to be a mess.

[Good Guy Garlan]

1 hour ago, SerMixalot said:

I would bet 10 Lamprey Pies that Tyrion never rules Mereen.  I figure it better than 50-50 he never even sets foot inside the city

Maybe not rule, but someone has to expose the Shavepate as the lying rat he is and Barristan ain't doing that anytime soon. 

[thehandwipes]

4 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

For me, it's actually a bit worrying. It means that they will need to cram 2+ worth of content of books into less than 1.5 show seasons. It's going to be a mess.

I doubt it.  It means that they won't even try. 

Dany invades next season.  Dragons, cool.  Wall will fall probably episode 10, next season WW invade.  Jon wins Bastardbowl, next season he fights WW with Northern and Vale troops.  If he's smart (which he's not) he'll let Lyanna Mormont make the hard decisions while he swings his sword around.  Edd's a goner, I just hope he says something funny before he goes.

It won't bear any resemblance to the books.  Even the end I think could be completely different.  They're changing so much, why not change the end?

[Lord_Ravenstone]

6 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

You have no idea that Tyrion won't be ruling Meereen  in the next books. Selmy  is almost certain to die and Tyrion is right there, clearly going to have some effect on the city.

As I said, how these things happen might be different but the major plot beats will be there, with plenty of spoilers.

 

Why would Tyrion rule Meereen in the next book without Daenerys' say so?

Barristan doesn't like Tyrion, he's a Lannister and no one has any reason to listen to him.

[Wendel Shoemaker]

6 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

You have no idea that Tyrion won't be ruling Meereen  in the next books. Selmy  is almost certain to die and Tyrion is right there, clearly going to have some effect on the city.

As I said, how these things happen might be different but the major plot beats will be there, with plenty of spoilers.

 

Even if Tyrion does end up ruling Mereen in some way, so far in the show he has really only done what I consider to be ADWD content. So what I'm trying to say is that I don't really think it's a huge spoiler to know that Tyrion will be in Mereen and may have some influence, considering what he will be doing will be quite different, as well as the context and the people he will be dealing with. I'm not trying to say that the books will be completely different from the show in every way, but that context matters and to me, that makes most of these events to be less spoilery. 

Next season will have tons of spoilers, but this season has been pretty tame considering we are "past the books".

[Hol Horse]

The show is basically Sparknotes, except with way less detail and a lot more filler.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

3 hours ago, Cz-99 said:

The show is basically Sparknotes, except with way less detail and a lot more filler.

Taking out the Aegon has led to the King's Landing plot spinning its wheels 

[Ser Gareth]

43 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Taking out the Aegon has led to the King's Landing plot spinning its wheels 

It's spinning its wheels in the books too.  The whole series is spinning its wheels waiting for the kids to grow up, Dany to invade and the Others to breach the Wall.

You can tell from the pacing of both the show and the books that is what has happened.  Dany's arc is the real drag now.  In the books Arya & Sansa are still too young but it's easy to suspend one's disbelief and ignore their ages.  In the show they are older so it's easier.  But everyone is waiting on Dany.  The whole point of AFFC & ADWD was pretty much filler waiting on Dany.

I don't think Tyrion will rule Meereen in the books though.  GRRM has said that Dany & Tyrion won't meet in the next book so there is a strong possibility that Dany won't even make it back to Meereen in TWOW.

 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

8 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

It's spinning its wheels in the books too.  The whole series is spinning its wheels waiting for the kids to grow up, Dany to invade and the Others to breach the Wall.

You can tell from the pacing of both the show and the books that is what has happened.  Dany's arc is the real drag now.  In the books Arya & Sansa are still too young but it's easy to suspend one's disbelief and ignore their ages.  In the show they are older so it's easier.  But everyone is waiting on Dany.  The whole point of AFFC & ADWD was pretty much filler waiting on Dany.

I don't think Tyrion will rule Meereen in the books though.  GRRM has said that Dany & Tyrion won't meet in the next book so there is a strong possibility that Dany won't even make it back to Meereen in TWOW.

 

It's the other way around. Daenerys is waiting for Aegon to finish the "Baratheons" off before she can invade.

I think you're making a big assumption that Daenerys is supposed to go back to Meereen when her last chapter in ADWD is basically disowning the Meereenese as her children. I don't think she is actually going back.

The whole point of AFFC and ADWD is setting up for a second ASOS. Just think about it. In the early half of TWOW, we're getting the Battle of Fire, the Battle of Ice, the Battle of Storm and mass sacrifice ritual between the Redwynes and ironborn. 

If you don't like the direction the series is going that's fine but the sample chapters are proving you more and more wrong. Now no one can say Euron is filled for instance. 

And I don't think the Others are anything more than a gimmick for the climax. Ultimately they don't matter in of themselves. They're designed to get as far as the North and then be defeated at Winterfell 

-------

Anyways the KL plot isn't spinning its wheels in the books because you have Aegon poised to take it over as well as Cersei's trial taking place in early TWOW rather than at the end.

It's like how they dragged out Sansa's wedding to Tyrion until the end of season 3 when it happens pretty early in the books 

[Cas Stark]

32 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

It's the other way around. Daenerys is waiting for Aegon to finish the "Baratheons" off before she can invade.

I think you're making a big assumption that Daenerys is supposed to go back to Meereen when her last chapter in ADWD is basically disowning the Meereenese as her children. I don't think she is actually going back.

The whole point of AFFC and ADWD is setting up for a second ASOS. Just think about it. In the early half of TWOW, we're getting the Battle of Fire, the Battle of Ice, the Battle of Storm and mass sacrifice ritual between the Redwynes and ironborn. 

If you don't like the direction the series is going that's fine but the sample chapters are proving you more and more wrong. Now no one can say Euron is filled for instance. 

And I don't think the Others are anything more than a gimmick for the climax. Ultimately they don't matter in of themselves. They're designed to get as far as the North and then be defeated at Winterfell 

-------

Anyways the KL plot isn't spinning its wheels in the books because you have Aegon poised to take it over as well as Cersei's trial taking place in early TWOW rather than at the end.

It's like how they dragged out Sansa's wedding to Tyrion until the end of season 3 when it happens pretty early in the books 

She has to go back.

Not only does she have to pick up Vic's navy to transport her plot gifts various armies, but Meereen has to be resolved one way or the other.  She either leaves it a smoking ruin and says 'sorry, brah, I meant well, I forgot the dragon doesn't plant, later, on to my next set of destructive actions in a different continent....' or it's left in some semblance of order and rebuilding.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

51 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She has to go back.

Not only does she have to pick up Vic's navy to transport her plot gifts various armies, but Meereen has to be resolved one way or the other.  She either leaves it a smoking ruin and says 'sorry, brah, I meant well, I forgot the dragon doesn't plant, later, on to my next set of destructive actions in a different continent....' or it's left in some semblance of order and rebuilding.

No she doesn't because she can head to Volantis instead to sack it as revenge and Vic can transport what's left of Dany's forces after the Battle of Fire over there. 

Shavepate seems like he'll be taking Meereen for himself and locking Baristan out and Barristan fan correctly guess they don't hav the forces to fight a two front war and hear about Dany in Volantis so he decides to take his forces there using Vic's ships. And then we can get a scene where Dany hears out Tyrion who tells her about Aegon, Marwyn who tells her about the Others, Barristan who tells her about Meereen and she has to pick between going west(Westeros) or east(Meereen), north (the Wall) or south(Aegon). 

And I think she'll abandon her children to the Shavepate and head west for Aegon

[SerMixalot]

I find it hilarious that people criticize AFFC/ADWD for meandering or spinning its wheels plot wise.

They are the middle books of a long story.  THAT is there job.  You don't know where the road is going, so how can you say what is important and not important in them? 

The books are a bridge between Act 1 TWot5K and Act 3 The War with the Others.  They show the impact of Act 1, set a tone and set things up for Act 3.  That is their job.  People who criticize these books without understanding that is absurd

[Good Guy Garlan]

37 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

I find it hilarious that people criticize AFFC/ADWD for meandering or spinning its wheels plot wise.

They are the middle books of a long story.  THAT is there job.  You don't know where the road is going, so how can you say what is important and not important in them? 

The books are a bridge between Act 1 TWot5K and Act 3 The War with the Others.  They show the impact of Act 1, set a tone and set things up for Act 3.  That is their job.  People who criticize these books without understanding that is absurd

So it's their job to be meandering and spinning their wheels plotwise? They're...intentionally meandering and wheel-spinning? That's hilarious. Guess no one told Rowling that, because "The Goblet of Fire" is the middle book and it's anything but meandering or wheel-spinning. Must be why it won the Hugo.

I'll tell you what's absurd. 

That your story has spun out of control to such a degree that you need TWO, not one, TWO enormous tomes just to function as a "set up" or "bridge". That's absurd. 

Oh, but wait, there's more. Your two humongous volumes devoted exclusively to "set up" future events - oh, and the tone, you absolutely require two big novels to set the tone - actually FAILED at "setting up" future events, because all the storylines you hoped to finish by then aren't even close to being done, and are instead a parade of cliffhangers that you're gonna have to pick up again in your next book.

Now, that's absurd. 

But wait, there's even more. You wanna know why is it that you couldn't wrap up any of the gazillion plotlines you introduced in your table-setting novels? Well, that's easy. For some reason, you decided that it was indispensable for the readers to see characters going from point A point B, to see every excruciating step along the way, instead of like, having the characters arrive at the place where the plot is clearly at much faster so you could continue said plot. You forgot Vonnegut's advice about starting a story as close to the end as possible. You forgot his advice about every sentence being used to further character or plot. You literally wrote the same Dany chapter over and over again. You took the saying "It's the journey, not the destination" a bit too literally. 

That. Is. Absurd. 

[SerMixalot]

To each his own I suppose. I enjoy the ride so the more the better.  ASOIAF isn't the Harry Potter series.  HP is a series of episodes.  ASOIAF is one long intertwined story, one structure isn't better than the other. 

Again how can you know something failed until you see the conclusion?  I get it  your not happy with the structure, you want answers now.  Others prefer to view things as a whole

[Good Guy Garlan]

2 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

To each his own I suppose. I enjoy the ride so the more the better.  ASOIAF isn't the Harry Potter series.  HP is a series of episodes.  ASOIAF is one long intertwined story, one structure isn't better than the other. 

Again how can you know something failed until you see the conclusion?  I get it  your not happy with the structure, you want answers now.  Others prefer to view things as a whole

Feast is a book in which Brienne goes around meeting obviously inconsequential characters (unless you think Ser Creighton or Ser Illifer are Azor Ahai, or perhaps the shield-painting girl is Nissa Nissa?), goes into the most clumsy, transparent and unnecessary detour I've seen in recent literature, and then, just as her storyline seems about to start, it ends abruptly. The same happens with lots of characters. Like, you and me both know Khojja Mo isn't gonna be terribly important. We know Sam's storyline lies at Oldtown, not in some Summer Islands ship. We know Jaime's show is with the Brotherhood, not with freaking Lord Bracken. 

I don't need to know the future books to think these two suck. Winds is not going to retroactively make Dany's one repeated chapter look any better. Knowing the purpose of Quentyn doesn't make his character any more complex or interesting. It's true that the series is one single story, but each individual book should leave the reader feeling fulfilled, with at least a sense of an ending despite a few cliffhangers.

Feast and Dance don't do that. They're bloat and filler, however much we try to convince ourselves that Dick Straw will play a big, vindicating role in future books that may or may not even exist. You can't just say a potential ending could be good in the future and hold off your criticism because of that. A book without an ending isn't a book.