Anyone still want to claim this is a book event?

[Schwarze Sonne]

Poor Rickon will die somehow in the book. I don't think he'd die because of the Boltons. I think he'd die in some stupid mishap like falling from the unicorn and break his neck. His entire story is about being promising but proved to be pointless to the story. Shaggydog confirms it.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

It won't happen like it did in the show but certain points will be hit.

- Winterfell will end up back with the Starks

- Ramsey will die

-Stannis will die, achieve nothing, tragic ending based on his own character flaws.

- Sansa will come north with LF and a Vale army.

- Jon will be brought back to life will be involved in Northern politics, with help from the Wildlings.

- Rickon will die.

- Dany will come back to Meereen with a Dothraki army and end the battle there.

- Dany will use ships by some ironborn (Victarion or Euron) to get to Westeros.
 

[Radish Knight]

16 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

This is the one doubt that I have however it could be that Stannis is defeated but retreats again or Mel burns Shireen to bring him back somehow.

If Stannis was brought back, I wonder how he'd change...

[JonSnowed]

6 hours ago, Yin & Yang said:

I think it would be terrible storytelling from GRRM if, after all this time, and all the agony felt by the Stark children, that Stannis took back Winterfell, rather than them. 

I agree with this, I just can't see GRRM doing it this way even if it was my original expectation.

[JonSnowed]

50 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

It won't happen like it did in the show but certain points will be hit.

- Winterfell will end up back with the Starks

- Ramsey will die

-Stannis will die, achieve nothing, tragic ending based on his own character flaws.

- Sansa will come north with LF and a Vale army.

- Jon will be brought back to life will be involved in Northern politics, with help from the Wildlings.

- Rickon will die.

- Dany will come back to Meereen with a Dothraki army and end the battle there.

- Dany will use ships by some ironborn (Victarion or Euron) to get to Westeros.
 

 

The sense of reason again, I agree with this entirely. It won't happen exactly as it does in the show but the broad strokes will be the same.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Just now, JonSnowed said:

 

The sense of reason again, I agree with this entirely. It won't happen exactly as it does in the show but the broad strokes will be the same.

Exactly, people get too hooked on the small picture and it drives them crazy. The basic plot points are all relatively similar.

[aFeastForDragons]

7 hours ago, Yin & Yang said:

I think it would be terrible storytelling from GRRM if, after all this time, and all the agony felt by the Stark children, that Stannis took back Winterfell, rather than them. 

 

This is the guy who murdered Ned, Catelyn, Robb and Jon as soon as something good was about to happen to them. Good being a loose word. This story isn't going to have a happy ending. 

 

6 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

I think that Stannis is very likely to win the Battle of Ice and don't see Jon or Sansa having anything to do with the Bolton's demise, because honestly their arcs have nothing to do with the Boltons. 

 

People here are getting very mixed with up with what happens with Ramsey and Sansa on the show so they think she has a huge amount of investment with him in the book. I would put money down on Vale troops never making it past the Twins. The logistics of it would be impossible. That would be the number one place Sansa would go to first. Not to mention her story is WAY behind everyone else's. 

[Future Null Infinity]

My idea of what will happen in the books

• Davos finds rickon and gives him to Stannis
• Melisandre burns shireen to resurrect Jon
• Jon doesn't know that Jeyne is fArya
• Stannis attacks winterfell
• Ramsay wins, captures Rickon (yes, somehow, Stannis will die)
• Jon assembles the wildlings and heads to Winterfell
• Sansa hears the news about her brother going to attack winterfell
• Sansa takes the knights of the vale and goes to Winterfell
• exactly like the show, she will save him from the slaughter

[aFeastForDragons]

You are completely forgetting about so many plot points in the book and concentrating on the shows made up ones. What about Manderly? The Freys? Manderly's army and allegiance to Stannis if Davos brings him Rickon? The Pink Letter? Stannis infiltrating Winterfell if he did fake his death? The Northern Conspiracy? The blizzard stopping armies in their tracks? Sansa being hundreds of miles away with several castles in-between, most notably Most Cailin and the Twins(owned by the Freys allied with the Boltons) etc etc etc

 

There is no way it could possible play out like that. 

[LordCouture]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

• Ramsay wins, captures Rickon and kills Jeyne (yes, somehow, Stannis will die)

Jeyne is going to the Wall with Justin Massey, so this is impossible.

[Future Null Infinity]

7 minutes ago, LordCouture said:

Jeyne is going to the Wall with Justin Massey, so this is impossible.

oops I forgot about that, I will edit my list, thanks

[Stannis is the man....nis]

3 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

It won't happen like it did in the show but certain points will be hit.

- Winterfell will end up back with the Starks

- Ramsey will die

-Stannis will die, achieve nothing, tragic ending based on his own character flaws.

- Sansa will come north with LF and a Vale army.

- Jon will be brought back to life will be involved in Northern politics, with help from the Wildlings.

- Rickon will die.

- Dany will come back to Meereen with a Dothraki army and end the battle there.

- Dany will use ships by some ironborn (Victarion or Euron) to get to Westeros.
 

On what evidence do you base this? You keep saying this stuff will happen but D&D themselves have said 1) George told them Stannis will burn Shireen which can't happen if he just dies, 2) they have said most of this season is completely made up, and 3) at no point during the build or after the battle did they say "George told us this would happen" even though they did for Hodor and Shireen. Their is no evidence other then your personal opinion this will happen

[zorkman]

This is hilarious about how Sansa is coming to the rescue. In the books no one even knows her identity except Littlefinger, and she is a traitor to the crown and still married to Tyrion. Ignoring all that, and the fact she gets an army, they agree to come, which gets safe passage up North, over hundreds of miles of terrain. The one thing that isn't in doubt is the fact it is in winter, cold & deep snow, which has meant Stannis cannot move his army. Yet somehow super girl is going to go against all this, defeat the Bolton's & retake Winterfall, & you are in the realms of fantasy. Which is appropriate I suppose, but at least the novels so far have some resemblance of realism unlike the show that has people teleporting around like they have caught a plane.

The other part is Stannis sacrificing his daughter. Firstly, he is no where near her, & the other is it is extremely unlikely, as even in the present situation he has told Justin Massey to hire an army & if he dies support his daughter as his successor. The witch could burn her I suppose, but certainly not Stannis.

 

[Ingelheim]

56 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

On what evidence do you base this? You keep saying this stuff will happen but D&D themselves have said 1) George told them Stannis will burn Shireen which can't happen if he just dies, 2) they have said most of this season is completely made up, and 3) at no point during the build or after the battle did they say "George told us this would happen" even though they did for Hodor and Shireen. Their is no evidence other then your personal opinion this will happen

Did they say it is Stannis the one who burns Shireen, or did they simply say Shireen dies by burning? I can't remember right now.

Either way, the evidence for it is...the books. Sansa will go North sooner or later; the Starks will take WF back; Jon Snow will leave the NW. These are facts IMO. You can have doubts about the Starks taking back WF, or Sansa leaving the Vale and going North, but it's been foreshadowed since a long time ago. And I'm 100% sure Jon will leave the NW.

The most plausible scenario, considering BOTH the books and the Show narratives, involves the Vale army, Sansa and LF, Stannis/The Boltons (still not sure which one of them, with every day that passes I'm less sure about Stannis' victory at the Battle of Ice) and Jon and the Wildlings.

IMO, if I had to bet, my money would go to the Sansa and LF and co. vs Stannis. It's a fitting end for his character; the irony of having won the Battle of Ice just to lose WF to the huge and rested Vale army.

[zorkman]

23 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

 

Either way, the evidence for it is...the books. Sansa will go North sooner or later; the Starks will take WF back; Jon Snow will leave the NW. These are facts IMO. You can have doubts about the Starks taking back WF, or Sansa leaving the Vale and going North, but it's been foreshadowed since a long time ago. And I'm 100% sure Jon will leave the NW.

The most plausible scenario, considering BOTH the books and the Show narratives, involves the Vale army, Sansa and LF, Stannis/The Boltons (still not sure which one of them, with every day that passes I'm less sure about Stannis' victory at the Battle of Ice) and Jon and the Wildlings.

IMO, if I had to bet, my money would go to the Sansa and LF and co. vs Stannis. It's a fitting end for his character; the irony of having won the Battle of Ice just to lose WF to the huge and rested Vale army.

In the books Jon Snow is dead so how can it be a fact he will leave the NW. Even if he did he wouldn't have much of an army, except for Wildings, & we saw how Stannis with a smaller force easily destroyed them

As to this vale army. Ignore what I have previously posted about distance, weather, & getting there, & more on how the vale will be convinced about heading north to fight for the Starks. Why would they follow a 13-14 year old girl, wanted by the crown, or a man who has tricked his way into power in the vale, & more importantly was part of the plot to put an imposter as Arya Stark to get the Bolton's in power. True they wouldn't know that part, but things are soon discovered, & if Jon Snow is ever resurrected will certainly know when the fake Arya comes to him. Why he would want to fight up there is another question.

The only way I could see all this happening is Martin writes about another five novels or condenses the plot significantly, which is unlikely to happen, & wouldn't want it to. Jamie Lannister took a whole novel riding from Kings Landing to his travels in the Riverlands, & Tyrion the same reaching Dany, in good conditions, as they couldn't get on a plane, & things take along time to get anywhere.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

16 minutes ago, zorkman said:

In the books Jon Snow is dead so how can it be a fact he will leave the NW. Even if he did he wouldn't have much of an army, except for Wildings, & we saw how Stannis with a smaller force easily destroyed them

As to this vale army. Ignore what I have previously posted about distance, weather, & getting there, & more on how the vale will be convinced about heading north to fight for the Starks. Why would they follow a 13-14 year old girl, wanted by the crown, or a man who has tricked his way into power in the vale, & more importantly was part of the plot to put an imposter as Arya Stark to get the Bolton's in power. True they wouldn't know that part, but things are soon discovered, & if Jon Snow is ever resurrected will certainly know when the fake Arya comes to him. Why he would want to fight up there is another question.

The only way I could see all this happening is Martin writes about another five novels or condenses the plot significantly, which is unlikely to happen, & wouldn't want it to. Jamie Lannister took a whole novel riding from Kings Landing to his travels in the Riverlands, & Tyrion the same reaching Dany, in good conditions, as they couldn't get on a plane, & things take along time to get anywhere.

I'd be very confident of Jon leaving the NW. Jon dying and coming back to life is the only way he can essentially get out of his vows, and I don't think that is a coincidence. I find it very unlikely Jon would decide to throw everything at going after Ramsey just before he dies, then when he comes back to life is all like 'nah, actually changed my mind now, lets get back to making sure there is enough salt beef in the cellar' 

I do think Sansa will eventually end up north in Winterfell, because I'm of the opinion that the show is merely fast forwarding quite a lot of the plot points and changing the elements in between. Winterfell getting back into Stark hands is such a huge game changing event that I don't think it would be one they would just make up, its almost certainly one of the big plot points GRRM told them about. How it gets back into Stark hands is another matter, but seeing as there aren't any other liable Starks around I'm guessing Jon and Sansa will have a hand in it. 

Martin writing another 5 novels is not out of the question, as you say he takes so long to move his characters from one place to another, it would need a whole book just to advance the plot as far as its got even now. That is maybe one of his problems that is delaying the books. 

[zorkman]

12 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Martin writing another 5 novels is not out of the question, as you say he takes so long to move his characters from one place to another, it would need a whole book just to advance the plot as far as its got even now. That is maybe one of his problems that is delaying the books. 

I think at this rate we will be lucky if he ever releases the next one, as we both agree it takes such a long time to advance the plot. I love how it is written, more like a soap opera, but understand the problems in putting it to film.

[evilspread]

11 hours ago, Yin & Yang said:

I think it would be terrible storytelling from GRRM if, after all this time, and all the agony felt by the Stark children, that Stannis took back Winterfell, rather than them. 

One of the reasons GRRM's writing is so compelling is that it avoids those traditional narrative beats. Over and over again he resists giving you precisely what you want. If we were discussing this with only book 1 published, your argument would dictate that Robb Stark would be the one to kill Joffrey as revenge for the death of his father. D&D aren't so classy with their storytelling and can't resist giving us the obvious, so it has to be the Starks who take Winterfell, Brienne has to fulfil her vow for revenge on Stannis etc. 

[lancerman]

5 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Exactly, people get too hooked on the small picture and it drives them crazy. The basic plot points are all relatively similar.

I've noticed a lot of the criticisms of the difference sort of boil down to a tunnel vision mentality. 

"Oh this x in the books, so z can't happen". 

The plot is dynamic. Multiple factors can happen that end up achieving the same thing. 

[Tagganaro]

1 hour ago, zorkman said:

In the books Jon Snow is dead so how can it be a fact he will leave the NW. Even if he did he wouldn't have much of an army, except for Wildings, & we saw how Stannis with a smaller force easily destroyed them

As to this vale army. Ignore what I have previously posted about distance, weather, & getting there, & more on how the vale will be convinced about heading north to fight for the Starks. Why would they follow a 13-14 year old girl, wanted by the crown, or a man who has tricked his way into power in the vale, & more importantly was part of the plot to put an imposter as Arya Stark to get the Bolton's in power. True they wouldn't know that part, but things are soon discovered, & if Jon Snow is ever resurrected will certainly know when the fake Arya comes to him. Why he would want to fight up there is another question.

The only way I could see all this happening is Martin writes about another five novels or condenses the plot significantly, which is unlikely to happen, & wouldn't want it to. Jamie Lannister took a whole novel riding from Kings Landing to his travels in the Riverlands, & Tyrion the same reaching Dany, in good conditions, as they couldn't get on a plane, & things take along time to get anywhere.

 

2 hours ago, zorkman said:

This is hilarious about how Sansa is coming to the rescue. In the books no one even knows her identity except Littlefinger, and she is a traitor to the crown and still married to Tyrion. Ignoring all that, and the fact she gets an army, they agree to come, which gets safe passage up North, over hundreds of miles of terrain. The one thing that isn't in doubt is the fact it is in winter, cold & deep snow, which has meant Stannis cannot move his army. Yet somehow super girl is going to go against all this, defeat the Bolton's & retake Winterfall, & you are in the realms of fantasy. Which is appropriate I suppose, but at least the novels so far have some resemblance of realism unlike the show that has people teleporting around like they have caught a plane.

The other part is Stannis sacrificing his daughter. Firstly, he is no where near her, & the other is it is extremely unlikely, as even in the present situation he has told Justin Massey to hire an army & if he dies support his daughter as his successor. The witch could burn her I suppose, but certainly not Stannis.

 

It's tough to understand what exactly Littlefinger's plans are at the moment in the books, but it seems like they would revolve around Harry the Heir leading the Knights of the Vale into war (which I believe LF specifically mentions in AFFC when he tells Sansa about having to win over Harry's heart).  Take into account that the loyalties of the Lords Declarant/Lords of the Vale seem to be heavily Pro-Jon Arryn/Lysa Arryn (which means Stark/Tully as well, like Bronze Yohn who has visited Winterfell several times and agitated to join the War of the 5 Kings on Robb Stark's side), I don't think it would be an issue for the Knights of the Vale to follow Harry the Heir/Sansa Stark into battle to regain Winterfell (politically speaking at least).

I do agree however that logistically/weather-wise it would be difficult/impossible to get the Knights of the Vale to Winterfell, but as you mentioned we ARE in the realms of fantasy lol.  If GRRM wants that to happen he will make it happen.  Maybe Bran helps Sansa out.  I don't even know.  

What I do know is that so far, my reading of Sansa's arc (particularly through the Snow Castle scene and the prophecy of the Ghost of High Heart) has her looking Northwards and not South.