[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I agree. I too thought she came off fairly well in episode 10. Finally, a decent characterization of her, it seemed. She admitted her mistake, which is a big thing in my book.

And then they submarined the whole thing with the outside the episode thing.

LF “getting” to her might be remotely plausible, if they hadn’t decided to go with the Winterhell storline. But, they decided to go that route, and now they don’t want to live with the consequences of that decision. It’s a bad habit on D & D’s part. They want to hit a plot point, but then they don’t want to live with the consequences of that plot point.

I agree that Sandor and Arya will probably pull Sansa back from the brink.

There's also the fact that Sandra first told LF to fuck off (you're either an idiot or the enemy), then later she told Jon only a fool would trust LF. And now they'll have him getting to her again? Will she forget all she's said about him and to him?

As to the bold, it's just like Elise Wassermann tells Karl Roebuck in The Tunnel: "you want to have your cake, eat it and fuck the baker too". 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Then D & D are trying to create drama between Jon, Sansa, and LF for the dumbest of reasons. I’m not saying of course, they wouldn’t do that.

So Sansa is going to keep messin around with LF because, because she’s made at not getting credit? That seems like a simple problem for Jon to resolve. And it's certainly a dumb reason for the dramatic hype that D & D are trying to create.

And you can’t just say, that the norms that operated in these feudal societies didn’t influence what the lords wanted or what they decided or how they thought about these issues.

Yeah, I think Jon’s manner of getting chosen king was ridiculous here. All these lords are in agreement because of why…? Because Lyanna is that awesome of a speech maker?

But, more importantly, if Sansa really wanted to be Queen, she would have been making her moves for that long before the Lyanna speech. And Jon’s support certainly would have helped her cause.

My main point though is that if D & D are now saying that Sansa always wanted to be Queen, then surely they made her look utterly stupid here and not very good at playing the game.

And if Sandra doesn't want to be queen, then all this drama which is suggested in the future is going to be a boatload of nonsense.

I think this last idea in bold is something to keep in mind.  Remember all the 'meaning' behind THE dress  Sansa was going to be a player and knew Batfinger's game, she was going to be Lady on Top for season 5......not a pawn purveyed away by pimping LF to the rapefest that was her stay in WF.  So, while it seems they are talking up this Sandra vs. Jon stuff, it could all just be smoke and mirrors as she awaits her next rapist, errrrrrrr husband?  I'll give them this though:  they really are trying to sell this idea, question is;  WHY?  

[SuperMario]

Does anyone think the Ds could try to be shocking and have Littlefinger executed in episode 1? Or do they love him so much to prevent that from happening?

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Well, soon the scripts to Season 7 will be finalized and released to the Cast. San Diego Comic Con is less than a month away and then the spoilers, etc, etc.

Plus on set filming pics and reports. WatchOntheWall did such a good job with S6 production news. 

Plus, the Cast list for SD Comic Con is not that brilliant. Not many top tier actors going unfortunately. And another No-show for GRRM. lol

[Lady Fevre Dream]

5 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Does anyone think the Ds could try to be shocking and have Littlefinger executed in episode 1? Or do they love him so much to prevent that from happening?

I;d LOVE to be that lucky.  I just can't even buy his character anymore, him and his fluctuating accents.  

[Ser Quork]

3 hours ago, Chebyshov said:

The Carol Awards are finally here!! Ballots are open for a week: http://www.fandomfollowing.com/season-6-carol-awards-voting-open/

Thanks for this - very enjoyable.

[Tijgy]

3 hours ago, Chebyshov said:

The Carol Awards are finally here!! Ballots are open for a week: http://www.fandomfollowing.com/season-6-carol-awards-voting-open/

Thanks! It is sooo difficult to chose. 

2 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

After what he did to Jeyne Poole, there is no way I could ever like him or see him as merely "grey".

But D & D are like "Jeyne Poole who?"

He is a great villian. But, he is loathsome.

He is one of the characters I really hate. 

[Cas Stark]

18 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Does anyone think the Ds could try to be shocking and have Littlefinger executed in episode 1? Or do they love him so much to prevent that from happening?

I think they love him too much, he should already be dead like 5 times.

And as someone else pointed out...surely at some point Royce will take Sandra aside to verify the 'kidnapping'...and then is she going to lie for him again? Or if not, then Royce would likely execute him right then and there....

I would guess he stays alive until 1/2-2/3 through next year....when Arya and the Hound show up and shake some sense into Sandra hopefully for the last time.

[Cas Stark]

57 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

What about Podeswa?

he will be back, I was half expecting him not to after the contradictory statements from him and the show runners regarding criticism.

Yeah, he's back and so is Alan Taylor, I guess after the Terminator G fiasco he's happy to do TV work, LOL.

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yeah, I think Jon’s manner of getting chosen king was ridiculous here. All these lords are in agreement because of why…? Because Lyanna is that awesome of a speech maker?

But, more importantly, if Sansa really wanted to be Queen, she would have been making her moves for that long before the Lyanna speech. And Jon’s support certainly would have helped her cause.

My main point though is that if D & D are now saying that Sansa always wanted to be Queen, then surely they made her look utterly stupid here and not very good at playing the game.

And if Sandra doesn't want to be queen, then all this drama which is suggested in the future is going to be a boatload of nonsense.

Is it possible d&d are just screwing up because they manufactured Sansa's presence in the North when she probably is never there in the books anyway? The North Remembers conspiracy was completely half-assed with Rickon taking fArya's place as Ramsey's hostage to lure Jon to Winterfell. It lacks so much foundation, character involvement that feels genuine, because there is almost zero build up. Jon is still emo-fied and has to be lead by the nose. Besides watching Rickon die, triggering a pre-mature attack, being completely oblivious of Sansa's lies and offers zero reaction after he finds out she withheld critical information that could have saved lives....etc.

The North plotline feels hollow and wasted because so much of it was off-book and d&d fanfiction.  

Why do you think d&d have taken SO much liberty with Sansa's character?

[Tijgy]

For the Carol Awards - I completely ignored the HS Speeches. What was the "best" speech?

[SuperMario]

2 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

For the Carol Awards - I completely ignored the HS Speeches. What was the "best" speech?

To me, the "I had fun once...it was terrible" speech is the runaway winner.

[Tijgy]

1 minute ago, SuperMario said:

To me, the "I had fun once...it was terrible" speech is the runaway winner.

With who was that?

[The Wull]

48 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I agree. I too thought she came off fairly well in episode 10. Finally, a decent characterization of her, it seemed. She admitted her mistake, which is a big thing in my book.

And then they submarined the whole thing with the outside the episode thing.

LF “getting” to her might be remotely plausible, if they hadn’t decided to go with the Winterhell storline. But, they decided to go that route, and now they don’t want to live with the consequences of that decision. It’s a bad habit on D & D’s part. They want to hit a plot point, but then they don’t want to live with the consequences of that plot point.

I agree that Sandor and Arya will probably pull Sansa back from the brink.

It's especially inane because they wrote that scene in Mole's Town between them.  Does that no longer have any bearing? Or have we finally confirmed 100% that it was pure fan service.  It sure seems like that conversation never happened.

[Prince of the North]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

It's really bizarre, and not a one off, it happens far too often. What I'd really like to know is if this is happening on purpose or not. Not on purpose as deliberately trying to show something ambiguous, but on purpose as a way to surprise viewers with abrupt changes in direction/motivation. Or is this happening and the writers aren't even aware that their poor storytelling is creating all this mess unintentionally. But either way, the result is just that, a mess. Is it difficult to predict what will happen next? Sure it is! But not because they've woven a plot full of mystery and dramatic tension, but rather because they're so focused on shocks and twists that they end up writing the set ups in a way that only creates confusion and misunderstanding. 

I believe it's not so much that the showrunners aren't aware but that they simply don't care.  Their approach has been, first and foremost, careless.  Their focus has always been with the spectacle rather than the story.  That's also why the show is rife with one of my biggest pet peeves: anachronism (and I think "anachronism" gets to a lot of what OldGimletEye and Le Cygne have been saying about Sansa, and Jon's becoming KitN in the show).  

Unfortunately, it certainly appears that the vast amount of the viewing public doesn't care about things like realism, logic, internal consistency, characterization, etc. either.

I recently heard a review of the new movie "BFG" or "Big Friendly Giant" and when I heard a couple of phrases the reviewer used to describe their impression of "BFG" I thought "Wow, that pretty well describes GoT as well!"  First, the reviewer said "BFG" was an "attractively produced but overblown fable" and then they said "it's more a collection of incidents rather than a narrative with forward momentum."  I then wondered, not for the first time, where even a fraction of this level of scrutiny or critique has been for GoT?  

[SuperMario]

4 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

With who was that?

I believe it was Marge, if I remember correctly.

[OldGimletEye]

14 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Why do you think d&d have taken SO much liberty with Sansa's character?

I really wish I had a good solid answer to that.

Why do D & D think Tywin Lannister is “lawful neutral”.

Why did D & D destroy Jaime’s character?

Why does D & D have Yara make a speech that is the exact opposite of Asha’s actual speech?

Why do D & D omit dialogue from the books, for no apparent reason?

Why did D & D decide to have LF tell Sansa Sandor’s story regarding his burns?

Why do D & D seem to avoid showing how Sansa really felt being married to Tyrion?

I just don’t have any really solid pinpoint idea. I wish I knew.

Somebody may need to help me here. Cause I’m a bit clueless here.

[Chebyshov]

33 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

With who was that?

Yeah, it was with Marg when the High Grandpa explains why he's so pious and anti-feudalism:

HS: It was a feast. I bought old fine wine and young pretty girls and invited my friends to come and share it all. We passed around the wine, passed around the women, and soon we fell into a stupor. I woke before dawn. I could barely stand. Everyone else was asleep on the couches or on the floor, lying in heaps next to their fine clothes. The truth of their bodies laid bare. I could smell them beneath the incense and the perfume and the fine food that had already started to turn. And I saw it with perfect clarity.

I saw what my sins were. The gold I had, the wine I drank, the women I used, my ceaseless struggle to maintain my position. It was all part of a story. A story I was telling myself about who I was. A collection of lies that would disappear in the light. The people I was trying to climb away from, the beggars in the street, the poor, they were closer to the truth than I ever was.

Marg: So what did you do?

HS: I left to go and find them. I didn't even put on my shoes. I walked out the door and never went back.

[Cas Stark]

In hindsight, I think the show should have done the TOJ as a dream in Season 1.  They wouldn't have had to reveal the entire thing but they should have set the stage way back then.  

They also should have done a Sean Bean cameo....pick a year any year.

[Paid Debt Lannister]

So, I have been abset from here for almost two years, I imagine. I had a big crisis on season 5, with Shireen's death, and I refused to watch the series further. Still, I came back for season 6 for some reason. I must say the season as a whole did not disappoint me that much. In general, it was enjoyable televison, and far better than seasons 4 and 5. However, now that it is over, I found myself considering some stuff that most of you have already mentioned, but I also want to get off my chest!

I won't even compare the show to the books, because I think we're all way past the point in which the show respected the book plot. It doesn't. My big problem is that the show has many controversies with itself. I was recently rewatching some scenes from season 1, and there's some awesome pieces of dialogue there. Cersei x Ned, Cersei x Robert, Littlefinge rx Ned, Littlefinger x Varys... Also, a lot of stuff is very shocking there (Bran falling from the tower, the Littlefinger betrayal, Ned's death, Viserys' death, Daenerys coming from the flames), but still consistent with the characters and writing pace.

What pissed me off the most this season is how differently they are handling their characters and plot points. It is clear at this point that the writers are just rushing everything to get rid of the series as fast as they can. I cannot believe they fast-forwarded things so much in this last episode, that characters that had never previously interacted with one another have now formed a steamrolling alliance and are going to march on the Evil Black Queen Cheryl (I loved the name you guys gave her). Even though Varys is a non-entity on the show (he has no personality whatsoever at this point), the Queen of Thorns remains interesting, and what are the terms she put on this alliance? I'd like to now. And how is it exactly smart for Daenerys to ally herself with the kinslayers Sand Snakes? Why not have Doran join this alliance? Was it all just for female power? (we now have Daenerys-Yara-Ellaria-Olenna versus all)

I am pretty sure Cersei will cause a lot of trouble before dying. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lannister took away a big chunk of Daenerys' army. But that's  just because the showrunners love the Lannisters and Queen Cersei/Carol/Cheryl, I don't even know who I am talking about at this point, because she is clearly on the losing side there. The Tyrells alone should be enough to take out the Lannisters, as they have been losing numbers since season 1. Add to that the Martells, dothrakis, Unsullied and 3 dragons, there is absolutely NO WAY the Lannisters can put ANY kind of fight this season. Nor does the North (but I don't think there will be a Daenerys vs North conflict next season). Still, I won't be surprised if it takes the entire Dorne and Reach armies to take out Darth Carol. 

The only real threat to Daenerys can be Euron. And I am afraid he will get the same treatment that the antagonists of the series have been receiving as of late: see Roose Bolton and Walder Frey, for example. A nice build-up, great actors, and a cheap and stupid disposal. Heck, what happened to these two guys? HOW IN SEVEN HEAVENS COULD ARYA INFILTRATE THE TWINS, AND KILL, AND CHOP, AND BAKE PEOPLE? For fuck's sake. It just makes the Starks and the Tullys seem more stupid, as they were defeated by this Frey scum that get OWNED by one single person. Apparently all it takes to wipe out major Houses in the showverse is the will to kill, because let's face it, Arya didn't even need the Faceless Men's abilities for that.

I could go on and on but I'm tired and have more stuff to do. Maybe I'll come back to talk about the dismissal of Daario, the whereabouts of Gendry, the nonsensical reintroduction of the Brotherhood Without Banners, and others.