Let's Discuss Arya's Pie Baking Logistics

[Mourneblade]

2 hours ago, Cron said:

I agree it seemed highly improbable.

Indeed, why would she even BOTHER to go to such extraordinary lengths, or take such extreme risks that would be associated with going through all that????

Uhhhh....all she had to do was face-change, walk up behind Walder and garrote him, or stab him, or whatever.

My goodness, as I recall, Arya went to all that pie-baking trouble, and for what?  Walder didn't even eat any of it.

He had already eaten a piece, the finger was in the second piece.

[Mourneblade]

1 hour ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

This is my biggest issue. Even if she could do it, why would she do it? She could have just as easily beheaded them and kept their heads in a bag to pull out when Walder asked "Where are my sons?"

Seems like a huge waste of time.

So does mounting Grey Wind on Robs head, but she witnessed that. So she felt he needed to suffer just a bit more.

[[Deleted]]

7 minutes ago, Mourneblade said:

So does mounting Grey Wind on Robs head, but she witnessed that. So she felt he needed to suffer just a bit more.

In that case, you had a large group of men working together and they collectively wanted to mock a king they felt had scorned them. How long would it take to hack off Robb's head and Grey Wind's head? Five minutes, collectively? A few daggers/metal spikes could hold it in place. It was an act where some guy could tell his buddies "You know what we should do....?" then they just go do it in a matter of minutes.

With Arya, you have a single girl working alone with two adult male bodies undertaking an extremely time consuming task which has a lot of potential to go wrong.

I don't debate that it was satisfying to see, it just didn't make a whole lot of sense when you really stop to think about it.

[YOVMO]

1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

The Frey Pie thing was a nod to the Book Readers an "easy out" for Arya to kill off the Freys, and follows the same logic the TV Show always seems to follow....

....and that is having NO logic.

It made no sense what-so-ever.

HAR! You almost had me there and then you threw in the zinger. Boom! well played

[bent branch]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Goood heavens, no. This rumor needs to end.

The Frey name is inspired by something else completely different for the books. And the fact that the Frey pies happen in the books is for many more reasons than just a quasi-trained-assain-girl to make the lord almost take a bite.

In the books there is a ton of actual foreshadowing for the Red Wedding, not just Robb being defeated. This comes from the same POV character that we learn of the Rat Cook, a tale about violating guest rights and sacred hospitality. The D's are notorious in their dislike for both magic and religion in the show (magic doesn't really exist and religion is bad), so it is no surprise to me that they would mess up something that is a driving force in parts of the actual plot.

"It was not for murder that the gods cursed him, nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive."

And on top of it, this was done in Winterfell against the Bolton/Alliance because, guess what? The North actually does remember.

And with Arya "presumably" learning a major, life altering skill like killing someone and wearing their face... don't you think we should have actually seen that knowledge happen on screen? Maybe not "you" personally, but a "you" as in the collective viewer. There is far too much off-screen storytelling going on for this to be considered a serious, mature drama.

I agree. Manderly choosing this method of revenge in the books was very layered. If the reader missed or forgot even one element, it was very easy to miss the with the first read. Arya choosing this method of revenge didn't flow naturally from the story. There is no real reason she would do such a thing, especially given the logistics. I really didn't like this scene.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I kinda predicted it would happen, but when I look at Arya's S6 arc as a whole, it ended with episode 8.

Also it just gets to a point where Arya being a 'badass assassin' just becomes ludicrous and this whole scene really was.  Now I feel like she is invincible and kill anyone undetected.

[Mourneblade]

6 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

In that case, you had a large group of men working together and they collectively wanted to mock a king they felt had scorned them. How long would it take to hack off Robb's head and Grey Wind's head? Five minutes, collectively? A few daggers/metal spikes could hold it in place. It was an act where some guy could tell his buddies "You know what we should do....?" then they just go do it in a matter of minutes.

With Arya, you have a single girl working alone with two adult male bodies undertaking an extremely time consuming task which has a lot of potential to go wrong.

I don't debate that it was satisfying to see, it just didn't make a whole lot of sense when you really stop to think about it.

A single girl who has spent the last year working with adult bodies. She did not have to take all the flesh off them to make a single pie lol.

[Zoo_Dane]

3 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

In that case, you had a large group of men working together and they collectively wanted to mock a king they felt had scorned them. How long would it take to hack off Robb's head and Grey Wind's head? Five minutes, collectively? A few daggers/metal spikes could hold it in place. It was an act where some guy could tell his buddies "You know what we should do....?" then they just go do it in a matter of minutes.

With Arya, you have a single girl working alone with two adult male bodies undertaking an extremely time consuming task which has a lot of potential to go wrong.

I don't debate that it was satisfying to see, it just didn't make a whole lot of sense when you really stop to think about it.

So it doesn't make sense because it took her a bit longer to accomplish a similar mocking task than someone else? 

Edited to add: 

On top of that, we only saw fingers in the pies. All she really had to do was cut off a hand/forearm from each of the bodies, it's not as if she had to haul two grown bodies around and carve up every last bit of them. It's not like her task was overly difficult or crazy, it's not beyond her new skills. 

[bent branch]

10 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

So it doesn't make sense because it took her a bit longer to accomplish a similar mocking task than someone else? 

Edited to add: 

On top of that, we only saw fingers in the pies. All she really had to do was cut off a hand/forearm from each of the bodies, it's not as if she had to haul two grown bodies around and carve up every last bit of them. It's not like her task was overly difficult or crazy, it's not beyond her new skills. 

And when did Arya learn to bake like that? Baking a pie like that is a highly skilled task. I guess only people who have actually baked would see how silly the Frey pie was as presented in the show.

[ummester]

4 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

This is my biggest issue. Even if she could do it, why would she do it? She could have just as easily beheaded them and kept their heads in a bag to pull out when Walder asked "Where are my sons?"

Seems like a huge waste of time.

That's why the scene needed context - not it's logistics explained.

Arya's plot is now my least favourite thing about GOTs - they've fucked it, screwed the pooch, jumped the shark. It's shit. I still enjoy watching Williams more than Dinklage, I don't feel annoyed when I see Arya on screen - just this kind of sadness in knowing that contemporary Hit Girl turned out a better written character than medieval Hit Girl after all (and that's including the dumb Kick Ass sequel).

[Zoo_Dane]

Just now, bent branch said:

And when did Arya learn to bake like that? Baking a pie like that is a highly skilled task. I guess only people who have actually baked would see how silly the Frey pie was as presented in the show.

She couldn't have gotten someone's assistance? Somehow slipped a few fingers in a premade pie? 

I obviously don't know the baking process so I can't comment on that... 

But all of that is honestly irrelevant. We have these discussions about minute details ever week. Rickon not zig-zagging was last week, LF teleporting before that, and on and on and on. It's for the plot point. She got her twisted revenge the same way Walder got his twisted revenge on Robb. 

[bent branch]

Some people like their stories to make sense and other people don't care. I guess that is the discussion in a nutshell.

[Argonath Diver]

How'd she get to multiple gut stabs and penniless in Braavos, to whole-sale slaughter in the Twins? Who cares? 

Any other South Park fans snort and roll their eyes throughout the pie reveal? Cartman totally did it better.

[ummester]

Just now, bent branch said:

Some people like their stories to make sense and other people don't care. I guess that is the discussion in a nutshell.

Yes - but GoTs started off making sense, so in a way it's false advertising

[Lady Fevre Dream]

6 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Logistics...? I have never heard of such thing before. Is it from the same world as dinosaurs, logic and consistency? 

Is there something about dinosaurs, and our knowledge of them, that seems lacking in consistency or logic?

Forget even the problems with the logistics of time, WTF did Arya learn to cook.  She certainly was never sent to the kitchens with Uma on the show, and I'm not remembering her giving much attention to Hot Pie's instructions on how to actually make the pie.  I'll give her a pass on dismembering skills, that, and cleaning and getting the crap kicked out of her by The Waif is about all she seemed to learn.

And.....the idea of her just pulling a face out of her ass is..........an ass pull.  They should have either shown her learning the glamour method or.......stealing a few on her way out.  Still, DOES leave the question of proper storage, doesn't it?  

It's not a logical switch from Manderly and the pies to Arya.  Manderly had wagons of supplies, tons of men on the road, was expected to bring and provide food for the REAL DEAL PIES, and all of these things made it quite doable for him.  Arya, she's talented but.....come on.  Fan service, minus dinosaurs.  

[Florina Laufeyson]

I thought the Hot Pie was an accomplice thing was a joke, but i kinda feel like its a good explanation.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 minutes ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

I thought the Hot Pie was an accomplice thing was a joke, but i kinda feel like its a good explanation.

I thought the Hot Pie thing was a joke as well, a cute one, I liked it.  I was just addressing all of the issues in trying to figure out........the logistics, really wasn't thinking of the joke or objecting to it.  

[nymeria_2321]

For those asking why she would do this rather than just kill them, it makes me think of the story Bran told when they were in the abandoned NW castle before meeting Sam. It was a story I think old nan told him about killing someone protected under guest rights and then they eating their kin in a pie or something Like that. But I assume if bran knew this story so did Arya and its probably where their minds go when thinking of avenging those protected with guest rights. As to all the logistics there's some easy answers some more complicated but why question it, it wouldn't gad made any sense for the show to do it with manderlys as show only people would have been like wtf. It's obviously far fetched but it was still satisfying 

[Florina Laufeyson]

8 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I thought the Hot Pie thing was a joke as well, a cute one, I liked it.  I was just addressing all of the issues in trying to figure out........the logistics, really wasn't thinking of the joke or objecting to it.  

 

lmao its ok, i was speaking generally since the first i heard of the Hot Pie joke was this morning, and on facebook. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 minutes ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

lmao its ok, i was speaking generally since the first i heard of the Hot Pie joke was this morning, and on facebook. 

LOL  I was too busy thinking about the lack of Uma and kitchen scenes, hadn't thought about Hot Pie.  I kinda feel guilty about that, forgetting him, show and book.  It's been a long night and day, LOL