If Jon becomes King , who will be his Queen ?

[bemused]

4 hours ago, TheDemonicStark said:

Well, we have a traumatised girl who finds that the person she thought would protect her is dead, only for him to come back. Now, what do you think would happen for this girl, who grew up believing in the stories of knights and princesses, would react to that? She would probably fall head over heels in love with Jon. Like, madly in love with him. Hell, Jon might just take pity on her and marry her simply because he feels sorry for her and knows if he rejected her, she could easily kill herself. Kind of an awkward marriage for Jon really. Like, he doesn't exactly love her in the way she thinks, but feels he has no choice.

In my view, this would be totally unrealistic. It's reminiscent of a bad romance novel ...  

Without going into detail, I disagree with every single projection.

[Yet Another ASOIAF Fan]

On 7/7/2016 at 0:53 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

 

If Jon was to marry Arya wouldn't that just be out of love? There is no political reason to marry her, she is a Lady of any house unless she's granted Harrenhal thru her granny. 

If you remember, Robb was King of the North and the Trident and made Jon heir of both.  While Jon has Stark blood like Robb, Jon lacks Tully blood.  A marriage with a person of Tully blood like Arya or Sansa would help to reinforce the North/Riverland bonds.  

On 7/6/2016 at 11:33 PM, Dawn of Fyre said:

What would be the benefit, though? Jon needs an army, once he is resurrected. The wildlings will fight for him regardless. They don't see Val as a princess; so marrying her won't make a difference. So, would this be a marriage of love? As I've quoted, only peasants marry for love

This could be a political "placebo effect"  marriage.  You are correct in that wildlings do not care if Jon marries a wildling or not.  However, the 'kneelers' might find comfort in the marriage, as they would think that it would control the wildlings.

[bemused]

1 hour ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

 If you remember, Robb was King of the North and the Trident and made Jon heir of both.  While Jon has Stark blood like Robb, Jon lacks Tully blood.  A marriage with a person of Tully blood like Arya or Sansa would help to reinforce the North/Riverland bonds.  

 In regard to your first point, this would be completely unnecessary. The Stark / Tully blood alliance is already there in the girls Jon thinks of as his sisters (and no doubt will continue to do so.)

If , for any reason Edmure and his unborn child should not survive, one of Cat's surviving children would already be next in line, and they're Starks.

Speaking of a possible union between Jon and Val, you said...

1 hour ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

This could be a political "placebo effect"  marriage.  You are correct in that wildlings do not care if Jon marries a wildling or not.  However, the 'kneelers' might find comfort in the marriage, as they would think that it would control the wildlings.

I think the wildlings care very much.

Val's position has not been made clear (yet) in the books. It's often repeated that she is no princess , but by the way she is treated by the Free Folk, it's plain that she holds a position of high authority, and great respect among them. (To such a degree that, beautiful though she is, she can go in search of Tormund alone, without fear of being "stolen" or accosted in any way.)... This is at least equal to the southron notion of "princess", though it's not hereditary nobility.

If Jon marries Val, it will make the Free Folk more likely to accept him as their leader / king ... because they trust her judgement. In fact, since he stood ready to defend her during the battle with Stannis, and has since obviously taken her under his protection at the Wall .. and since she acted as his envoy to Tormund, she has already given Jon her stamp of approval. Together, they will be the emerging "leader / king and wise woman" succeeding Mance and Dalla.

[Yet Another ASOIAF Fan]

15 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ok. I gave you the other info on my last reply. I am putting this transcript from the audio under the spoiler quote.

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry, this might be a bit off topic.

Spoiler

So Jon/Arya was written out, but the broad strokes,ex death and marriage, stayed the same?  Honestly I am more confused.  Assuming that both are true, that means that in the outline Arya and or Jon would not have gotten married.  To prevent a marriage, one or both of them would of had to die before they could marry.  If deaths of major characters has not changed, that does not look good for Jon and or Arya.  

 

[bemused]

Pardon me for butting in..

IIRC, the outline didn't say that they would marry, just that there would be a love triangle Jon/Arya/Tyrion... ???

[Nymeria1st]

I am only starting my 2nd read through the series and I haven't read the books in a while, so I might be totally off.

I always liked the idea that the Others weren't evil personified but a people with motives beyond "Destroy all" and such. Therefore I believed that the Night King married an Other to honour a pact between Men and Others and he was slandered afterwards. A bit like most records of Echnaton, the Egyptian pharao who tried to make Egypt monotheistic, were destroyed after his death as blasphemous.

Therefore, I liked the idea of Jon mirrowing the Night's King, as he for me is Ice personified in the song of Ice and Fire. I don't believe that there will be an Iron Throne at the end of the series for Jon to sit on so he wouldn't need a queen. 

But if he became king, I'd hate the idea of Dany becoming his queen. I cannot imagine her living long after her conquest or at least ending in a position of power. She is not a ruler. 

There is no reason for Arya becoming his queen, what would she bring to the table? Badass assassin's skills, but what lands, what power? That does not make much sense. Sansa is currently married to Tyrion and if she wants to get the Vale she's got to marry Harry the Heir or Sweetrobin, if he lives, then she would not be available for marriage. Of course, she can be a widow again, but they are blood related anyways and she would be on his side when needed anyways. Would it not be better for Jon to keep his options open with other houses who might have been against him to get their fealty?

[The Fattest Leech]

8 hours ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

If you remember, Robb was King of the North and the Trident and made Jon heir of both.  While Jon has Stark blood like Robb, Jon lacks Tully blood.  A marriage with a person of Tully blood like Arya or Sansa would help to reinforce the North/Riverland bonds.  

This could be a political "placebo effect"  marriage.  You are correct in that wildlings do not care if Jon marries a wildling or not.  However, the 'kneelers' might find comfort in the marriage, as they would think that it would control the wildlings.

That's weird that what you quoted of me was actually what someone else posted. Is the forum server going crazy again? 

Anyway, I think George took the idea of Jon + Arya off the plate before he finished Game. This is what I said:

On July 7, 2016 at 0:35 AM, No Regard Carrenard said:

If Jon was to marry Arya wouldn't that just be out of love? There is no political reason to marry her, she is a Lady of any house unless she's granted Harrenhal thru her granny. 

Could have been if George stuck to the original outline, but he didn't and then George said he was making stuff up in the outline and that any remarks about Ygritte compared to Arya were because Jon had little experience with other females and Ygritte seemed familiar.

Now, if Arya wants Jon and can't have him, that would be a twist to fulfill the "bittersweet" ending if done right.

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[The Fattest Leech]

7 hours ago, bemused said:

Pardon me for butting in..

IIRC, the outline didn't say that they would marry, just that there would be a love triangle Jon/Arya/Tyrion... ???

Please, butt in if you have goodies to add . You are correct. It was also described as something like Arya was "horrified" about her feelings and it would torment Jon and Arya, but there was never talk of a marriage. 

7 hours ago, Yet Another Stark Fan said:

Sorry, this might be a bit off topic.

  Hide contents

So Jon/Arya was written out, but the broad strokes,ex death and marriage, stayed the same?  Honestly I am more confused.  Assuming that both are true, that means that in the outline Arya and or Jon would not have gotten married.  To prevent a marriage, one or both of them would of had to die before they could marry.  If deaths of major characters has not changed, that does not look good for Jon and or Arya.  

 

Don't be confused . The easiest thing to do, according to the author, is to use the current information that made it into the books- NOT the outline because that outline changed before he was even finished with the first book. 

Most everything changed from that outline, not just Jon and Arya. George had to put some events down to sell his book series to a publisher. He said he made things up just to do that. George has said that he knows who will sit the iron throne the entire time and a few who live or die. I am assuming, based on multiple quotes from him, that he also knows who ends up with who and where by now. 

As bemused mentioned above, there was no talk of a Jon/Arya marriage in the outline. I am not sure why some think that was going to happen, but their relationship was never going to go that far. 

[The Fattest Leech]

7 hours ago, bemused said:

 In regard to your first point, this would be completely unnecessary. The Stark / Tully blood alliance is already there in the girls Jon thinks of as his sisters (and no doubt will continue to do so.)

If , for any reason Edmure and his unborn child should not survive, one of Cat's surviving children would already be next in line, and they're Starks.

Speaking of a possible union between Jon and Val, you said...

I think the wildlings care very much.

Val's position has not been made clear (yet) in the books. It's often repeated that she is no princess , but by the way she is treated by the Free Folk, it's plain that she holds a position of high authority, and great respect among them. (To such a degree that, beautiful though she is, she can go in search of Tormund alone, without fear of being "stolen" or accosted in any way.)... This is at least equal to the southron notion of "princess", though it's not hereditary nobility.

If Jon marries Val, it will make the Free Folk more likely to accept him as their leader / king ... because they trust her judgement. In fact, since he stood ready to defend her during the battle with Stannis, and has since obviously taken her under his protection at the Wall .. and since she acted as his envoy to Tormund, she has already given Jon her stamp of approval. Together, they will be the emerging "leader / king and wise woman" succeeding Mance and Dalla.

I am just catching up in this thread and wanted to say this were perfect answers. Very well said. 

[LordImp]

10 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I am just catching up in this thread and wanted to say this were perfect answers. Very well said. 

I am considering that Val is some kind of priestess.  

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, LordImp said:

I am considering that Val is some kind of priestess.  

That would be a wise thing to consider  My signature has a link to an excellent write up by one of our own wise women on this thread here if you want to take a look. 

[TheDemonicStark]

11 hours ago, bemused said:

In my view, this would be totally unrealistic. It's reminiscent of a bad romance novel ...  

Without going into detail, I disagree with every single projection.

Do tell me more. Why do you disagree?

Also, Jeyne Poole is the fArya, and the final relationship was originally going to be Arya x Jon, so.....just putting it out there.

[TheDemonicStark]

24 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

     This is Known!  

I disagree with your choice of Sansa.  Arya is the one for Jon.  George Martin originally planned to have those two fall in love.  Tyrion is the third part of the love triangle.  Jon betrayed the night's watch for Arya.  He has strong feelings for her and it could lead to something more than affection.

Actually, I think it will be Jeyne Poole, the fArya. Jon marrying a fake Arya Stark would certainly be a nice little nod to the original idea for the books. 

In fact, I would wager that this would create a new great house. House Snow. I even know what the words of this house would be: Kissed by Fire.

[LordImp]

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That would be a wise thing to consider  My signature has a link to an excellent write up by one of our own wise women on this thread here if you want to take a look. 

Just read it. Really good theory , I'm sold 

[Wolf's Bane]

1 hour ago, Leticia Stark said:

LOL, I'm starting to like all these new Jon haters here, their posts are really funny.

And I agree, but we can say this about 70% of the characters of the story.

It's better than the IT, I think, like @The Wolves said, it's ugly.

 

Some of us aren't new.  We've been here a long while. 

The Iron Throne is the symbol of the ruler of Westeros.  It is also a symbol of Aegon's victory over the petty kings who each ruled a piece of Westeros before the Targaryens came. 

1 hour ago, TheDemonicStark said:

Actually, I think it will be Jeyne Poole, the fArya. Jon marrying a fake Arya Stark would certainly be a nice little nod to the original idea for the books. 

In fact, I would wager that this would create a new great house. House Snow. I even know what the words of this house would be: Kissed by Fire.

New Not-So-Great House = House Snow

House Words = "We Know Nothing"  if Jon married fArya like you said.

If Jon married a Greyjoy, the words become "We Don't Know", and if Jon married a Baratheon, the house words become "We Don't Pay Our Debts".  But if he should marry a Tully, it becomes "High on the Poppy".  Should very boring Jon marry a Lannister, it becomes "Hear Me Snore."

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

     This is Known!  

I disagree with your choice of Sansa.  Arya is the one for Jon.  George Martin originally planned to have those two fall in love.  Tyrion is the third part of the love triangle.  Jon betrayed the night's watch for Arya.  He has strong feelings for her and it could lead to something more than affection.

To the first, George has said that he dropped that idea before finishing the first book.

To the second. I'm not arguing here, I truly just want to know why Jon/Arya shippers focus on a single line or two in one part of the books. If you look at the entire scene, Jon thinks of all of his siblings. Even Sansa (No, I am not a Sansa shipper), it's just that Jon includes her even though Sansa was always curt with him.

The repetition of "I want my bride back", is anger. Jon is angry that someone has hurt his family or could make a skin out of them. Jon DID ride out earlier in the story when he heard Ned was beheaded and Robb was assembling an army. Jon risked his life before to help save his family. He carried guilt he could not leave to go help his family. Jon was not going to let that guilt get him again. If anything, this shows how Jon is consistent throughout all the books with the love, respect and honor he has for his family and their Stark name.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

"I won't say you're wrong. What do you mean to do, crow?"

 

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back …

 

"I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said.

[Yucef Menaerys]

Margery Tyrell,Jon will be Margery's fourth husband after the inevitable death of Tommen

[teej6]

17 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

To the first, George has said that he dropped that idea before finishing the first book.

To the second. I'm not arguing here, I truly just want to know why Jon/Arya shippers focus on a single line or two in one part of the books. If you look at the entire scene, Jon thinks of all of his siblings. Even Sansa (No, I am not a Sansa shipper), it's just that Jon includes her even though Sansa was always curt with him.

The repetition of "I want my bride back", is anger. Jon is angry that someone has hurt his family or could make a skin out of them. Jon DID ride out earlier in the story when he heard Ned was beheaded and Robb was assembling an army. Jon risked his life before to help save his family. He carried guilt he could not leave to go help his family. Jon was not going to let that guilt get him again. If anything, this shows how Jon is consistent throughout all the books with the love, respect and honor he has for his family and their Stark name.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

"I won't say you're wrong. What do you mean to do, crow?"

 

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back …

 

"I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said.

There's no one in the books that Jon cares more about than Arya. Even a blind person can see that. His thoughts throughout the series keeps going back to her. True, he loves the rest of his family but Arya is without a doubt his favorite and for Arya it's the same with Jon. They're shown to finish their sentences together implying their thoughts and feelings are in sync. As for the original outline, although the details may have changed, I feel the central characters and the eventual endings to their story arcs haven't. I strongly feel Arya is destined to be Jon's queen. It may not happen in the current timeline but in an epilogue, perhaps in Bran's vision or a maester's account of the second war for dawn or something like that. The biggest clue to Arya being queen is Ned's statement in AGOT where he states that she will be queen when there's no reason whatsoever for him to do so. And Ned is not known for making random meaningless statements. That's definitely Ned unintentinally prophesying.    

[Clegane'sPup]

37 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

"I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said.

Goodness gracious great balls of fire. Floored me. Gonna read it again tonight with fresh eyeballs.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Goodness gracious great balls of fire. Floored me. Gonna read it again tonight with fresh eyeballs.

Hahaha. What do you mean? Are thinking you missed something before? Lord knows that happens. I didn't catch a lot of things until re-read 2 or 3. And listening to Roy Dotrice helps too