Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 15 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said: RIP Craig Sager. Legend. 2016 man..... R.I.P. Sager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: 2016 man..... R.I.P. Sager! May his wardrobe live on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 On 12/11/2016 at 8:04 PM, DunderMifflin said: Oscar didn't win MVP when he did it either(it wasn't a thing then) Not sure why it's such a bigger accomplishment if Russ does it though It's a different league. Oscar did it against significantly less athletic guys who smoked during halftime. Westbrook is doing it in an era when many of the premiere athletes in the world play against him every night. It was impressive when Oscar did it, but I think averaging a triple double is more impressive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 On 12/15/2016 at 11:00 PM, briantw said: It's a different league. Oscar did it against significantly less athletic guys who smoked during halftime. Westbrook is doing it in an era when many of the premiere athletes in the world play against him every night. That really goes both ways. Russ has benefited from three decades of advancement in medicine, health, and tech. Oscar used to sit in coach, sat NEXT to guys who smoked during halftime, and ate charbroiled meat every day. He certainly wasn't getting vitamin injections and 3D postural mapping assessments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 42 minutes ago, Relic said: That really goes both ways. Russ has benefited from three decades of advancement in medicine, health, and tech. Oscar used to sit in coach, sat NEXT to guys who smoked during halftime, and ate charbroiled meat every day. He certainly wasn't getting vitamin injections and 3D postural mapping assessments. No doubt, but Russ also has to go against significantly more athletic players every day, and is also two inches shorter than Oscar, which makes it even more impressive the numbers he's putting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 On 12/15/2016 at 5:00 PM, briantw said: 1 hour ago, briantw said: No doubt, but Russ also has to go against significantly more athletic players every day, and is also two inches shorter than Oscar, which makes it even more impressive the numbers he's putting up. Yet game pace was faster in Oscars time and he played much more minutes per game than the supposedly much more athletic Westbrook. And it can't be brought up enough that Oscar averaged a triple double for 5 seasons while Westbrook has yet to make it to Christmas of 1 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 The Big O shot for a .485 FG% over his entire career. Russells only like a .430ish shooter while still in his prime. He has one of the lowest 2pt FG% on his roster. Westbrook has big stats because he jacks up over 24 shots every 36 minutes. Robertson had big stats because he was efficient. Its like comparing Emmit Smith with Barry Sanders, they both had a lot of yards, but one of them had to carry the ball a gazillion times to get those stats. I'll take the more efficient player every time. Besides its fruitless to compare between eras, you can only make a sound comparisons between guys and their peers during the same playing years or decade roughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 16 hours ago, DunderMifflin said: And it can't be brought up enough that Oscar averaged a triple double for 5 seasons while Westbrook has yet to make it to Christmas of 1 season. This is absolutely right. It aint even Xmas yet. Brian is suffering from a mild case of recency bias, me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Relic said: This is absolutely right. It aint even Xmas yet. Brian is suffering from a mild case of recency bias, me thinks. And we could say that the obsession over players that played 50 years ago is just nostalgia. When Oscar Robertson was averaging a triple double, the league was like 75% white guys with no international players. His raw stats are essentially meaningless, aside from showing that he was dominant for his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 29 minutes ago, sperry said: And we could say that the obsession over players that played 50 years ago is just nostalgia. When Oscar Robertson was averaging a triple double, the league was like 75% white guys with no international players. His raw stats are essentially meaningless, aside from showing that he was dominant for his time. If you are going to abuse this argument then it goes for both players. It's not an argument that let's you have it both ways. For every time someone repeats the "They were all white and crappy" line there are 10 more reasons to show today's NBA is easier. Ex. - They played against the same 9 teams every night and competition was always fierce. Every game was against top 10 competition. Westbrook gets easy advantage of playing against absolute shit teams for majority of the season. Ex. - Westbrook doesn't have to worry about racism a fraction of as much as guys 50 years ago did, it was super serious back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 2 hours ago, DunderMifflin said: Ex. - They played against the same 9 teams every night and competition was always fierce. Every game was against top 10 competition. Westbrook gets easy advantage of playing against absolute shit teams for majority of the season Competition wasn't "always fierce" just because there were only 9 teams in the league. In any season nearly half of these 9 teams were usually terrible just like it happens in pretty much every team sports league. In 1962 for example there were two teams which ended with 29 wins and one team which ended with 18 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 35 minutes ago, David Selig said: Competition wasn't "always fierce" just because there were only 9 teams in the league. In any season nearly half of these 9 teams were usually terrible just like it happens in pretty much every team sports league. In 1962 for example there were two teams which ended with 29 wins and one team which ended with 18 wins. If only the top 9 nba teams played this season, the Thunder would be very lucky to get 20 wins. Theyll barely be even good enough to be in the top 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 7 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: If only the top 9 nba teams played this season, the Thunder would be very lucky to get 20 wins. Theyll barely be even good enough to be in the top 9 I'm not sure what you understand about the fact that when the league was 75% cigarrette smoking white guys with no European players and no strength training or nutrition, that the fact it was a small league doesn't mean the competition was good. Oscar Robertson was a freak athlete playing against a bunch of guys that wouldn't make the d-league today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 hour ago, sperry said: I'm not sure what you understand about the fact that when the league was 75% cigarrette smoking white guys with no European players and no strength training or nutrition, that the fact it was a small league doesn't mean the competition was good. Oscar Robertson was a freak athlete playing against a bunch of guys that wouldn't make the d-league today. Every human activity is going to get better and better as years pass by. That doesn't diminish greatness of previous generations. The hypothetical always seems to be "put the old guy in today's game and he wouldn't be doing all that" Well put Westbrook in Oscars era see how great he does. See how much opportunity and proper nutrition he gets as a pre civil rights era child. See how he reacts to not being groomed and prepared for the NBA from early childhood. See how his game develops without the privilege of seeing game film of decades of people like Jordan and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 On 15/12/2016 at 10:49 AM, Relic said: AND you don't have to irrationally hope that Josh Smith, of all people, will bail out your season. That must have been a low point for you =P I was not proud of that. Hopefully I won't end up in a similarly delusional state this year! Capela being out for 6 weeks hurts, especially with the whole D-Mo fiasco playing out like it did. Could really use a solid defensive 7-footer right now. Fortunately Montrezl Harrell has been playing well enough to deserve more minutes than he has been getting, so the team isn't completely without big-man resources. I don't know what's going to happen when Nene hits his minutes restrictions on all the back-to-backs they've got coming up though... ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Just skimming the boxscores so maybe my recollection is off. But it looked like Gordon and Harden went 2 for 19 on tre's and yet the Rockets only lose by 2 to the Spurs. Thats a frikn irritating loss and crappy way to have a win streak ended.. I mean just think about it, if Gorden or Harden had just connected on one more of those threes, say 3 for 19 instead of 2 for 19, they would have won the game and the streak would still be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Anyone else think that Boogie Cousins is the biggest waste of talent in the NBA right now? https://theringer.com/demarcus-cousins-ejection-mouthpiece-55-points-c571b80d77e0#.7ef2wrsp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 On 12/18/2016 at 5:20 AM, Relic said: This is absolutely right. It aint even Xmas yet. Brian is suffering from a mild case of recency bias, me thinks. I am operating under the assumption that Westbrook will average a triple double for the season, and comparing that achievement to what Oscar did. I think Westbrook doing so in the modern NBA would be much more impressive than Oscar doing it against unathletic white guys. Hell, if we had a time machine and sent Westbrook back to Oscar's era, I wouldn't find him averaging a triple double nearly as impressive. Now, will he average a triple double for the whole season? I have no idea. But if he does, I'll consider it more impressive than Oscar doing the same in an era where he was one of the few dominant athletes in the league. He was much like Wilt...a man playing among boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Relic said: Anyone else think that Boogie Cousins is the biggest waste of talent in the NBA right now? https://theringer.com/demarcus-cousins-ejection-mouthpiece-55-points-c571b80d77e0#.7ef2wrsp3 No. I think he's a great talent who ended up on one of the worst-run franchises in the history of the NBA. He's a bit of a headcase, to be sure, but playing for the worst franchise in the league over the past decade does him no favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I've never seen an unejection before, didn't know that was even a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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