briantw Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 5 hours ago, sperry said: Think Golden State is still outrageously good, but not as good as they were last year. Bogut is a player. Bogut's main strength is that he can function both as a defensive anchor and a playmaker. Not a lot of guys that can defend the rim that well and also pass the way Bogut does, which is what made him so valuable to the Warriors. I think they'll miss him most in the playoffs when teams are actually game-planning against them for an entire series to exploit their defensive weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Call me crazy, but I'd much rather have Durant on my team in the playoffs than Bogut and Barnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I get your point and it's a good one, but you're missing one part of the equation. Would you rather have Bogut and Barnes or Durant and some combination of Pachulia, Varajao, and McGee? I think that combination is fine against probably 90% of the league, but when you're dealing with teams that have multiple guys who can kill you in the paint, the difference becomes apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Again, the thing that I think people don't get is that there is diminishing marginal returns on adding more offense to the greatest offensive team in the history of the league. Yes, Durant is better than Bogut and Barnes on offense. But you were already ridiculously efficient on offense. You didn't need him, and you got a lot worse on defense in the interior, which gives you some potentially really bad matchups in the playoffs. Which it just so happens the best two contenders in the west (clippers and Spurs) can take advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 On 12/7/2016 at 11:21 AM, Fez said: In terms of on-the-court production I agree, with LeBron I'm more talking about things like his efforts to mentor Irving, boost Love's confidence, and spend almost all his free time with J.R. Smith to keep him from getting in trouble. LeBron is hardly the only player to do stuff like this, but I think its very important and valuable to the team's success. There's no good way to quantify it, and I'm not even sure there should be an attempt to do so, but I think its important to keep in mind when talking about value. MJ was the GOAT just on his play, but the way he made his teammates better by making them too afraid to disappoint him made him even more valuable to the Bulls. ETA: The Love and Irving stuff is more last year's example, the JR Smith stuff is this year's. And, look what it's done to Love's confidence. With Love playing a the the level he is now, Cavs are my favorite for a repeat. Lets just quit with the nonsense, Brodie is the MVP and should be. I think he agv's a Triple-Double for the year. I'm on the record as saying it. And, it will be more of an accomplish than when Oscar did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Oscar didn't win MVP when he did it either(it wasn't a thing then) Not sure why it's such a bigger accomplishment if Russ does it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: Not sure why it's such a bigger accomplishment if Russ does it though Are you kidding? I'm not bashing the Big O but get serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Only thing I can think of is the typical line of everybody sucked back then so it was easy to rack up stats, which I don't agree with. Or some half truth game pace stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Found a little something on the subject... http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2016/3/24/11298538/russell-westbrook-is-surpassing-oscar-robertson-again Kinda seems like bullshit to me, as they are projecting Westbrook's stats out to the 44 minutes a game Robertson played. Westbrook is averaging like 36.5 minutes a game. On top of all that, maybe we could wait until the half point of the season before making the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Just to throw a related note in. Oscar not only averaged a triple double over a season but he averaged a triple double over his first 5 seasons. I think those game pace stats fail ultimately in telling a complete story. They make today's guy rebounds look better due to more possessions and lower field goal percentages. But what passes for an assist today wouldn't even cut it back in the 90s, certainly not the 60s. I see games now when the point guard throws the ball down low and the big man does a pass fake and two pump fakes and an up and under move and the point guard still gets credit for an assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 14 hours ago, sperry said: Again, the thing that I think people don't get is that there is diminishing marginal returns on adding more offense to the greatest offensive team in the history of the league. Yes, Durant is better than Bogut and Barnes on offense. But you were already ridiculously efficient on offense. You didn't need him, and you got a lot worse on defense in the interior, which gives you some potentially really bad matchups in the playoffs. Which it just so happens the best two contenders in the west (clippers and Spurs) can take advantage of. Clippers aren't a threat because of this. Blake is usually owned by Draymond. He doesn't have the length to trouble him in the post. As for the Spurs, they have Aldridge, but he's not exactly a dominant low post player either and Draymond can defend him pretty comfortably. Gasol can trouble them, but he'd be killed on the other end given how slow he is nowadays. It will be an issue, but having Durant is still more valuable IMO. In the finals the Warriors offense stalled in the last 3 games which cost them the title. They were a great regular season offensive team in the last 2 seasons, but in the playoffs - not so much. Now they can go to Durant when Curry gets cold. Also the other teams no longer can do the "trap Curry and leave Barnes open and hope he bricks the shot" strategy. 9 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Found a little something on the subject... http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2016/3/24/11298538/russell-westbrook-is-surpassing-oscar-robertson-again Kinda seems like bullshit to me, as they are projecting Westbrook's stats out to the 44 minutes a game Robertson played. Westbrook is averaging like 36.5 minutes a game. On top of all that, maybe we could wait until the half point of the season before making the comparison. Comparing across eras is pretty pointless. Also Westbrook certainly can't play 44 MPG nowadays, he's gassed after 35 minutes in half the games right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Don't see any value either in comparing him to Robertson playing in the 60's. What matters is how great his contenders for this MvP are, and what they are doing to try and beat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 22 hours ago, David Selig said: Call me crazy, but I'd much rather have Durant on my team in the playoffs than Bogut and Barnes. Fruit cake.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Great comeback win for the Wolves in Chicago. They were down by over 20 in the first half. They keep showing flashes of the juggernaut they can become, but they have to be a lot more consistent if they hope to realize their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 It's not been much more than flashes and individual good games so far IMO. A fair amount of losses as well in games which I already expected them to win right now. Dieng looks a bit unfortunate. He can be useful, but ultimately he just lacks basic basketball skills and a better option next to Towns will need to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 25 minutes ago, Calibandar said: It's not been much more than flashes and individual good games so far IMO. A fair amount of losses as well in games which I already expected them to win right now. Yeah, there haven't been enough games where the core three have all played well. And I agree that they're losing games they should have won. Their record in games where they've either had a 4th quarter lead and/or a double digit lead is atrocious. 27 minutes ago, Calibandar said: Dieng looks a bit unfortunate. He can be useful, but ultimately he just lacks basic basketball skills and a better option next to Towns will need to be found. I'm good with Dieng. He, just like the entire team, needs to be more assertive and consistent. Bazz is the guy who needs to GTF off this team NOW! He's a black hole with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Great comeback win for the Wolves in Chicago. They were down by over 20 in the first half. They keep showing flashes of the juggernaut they can become, but they have to be a lot more consistent if they hope to realize their potential. What an annoying game by the Bulls. After the 1st quarter your youngsters just plain outhustled them. Pathetic effort really. Wiggins hit some big shots down the stretch too, dude is legit. I also didn't realize Towns shoots about 4 3's a game, he kept gunning them up and looks so awkward but actually hits them at a 34.3% clip. Which would be tied for second best on Chicago, way higher than our "shooters" McDermott, Mirotic and Canaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 New CBA agreed! I'm really glad we can avoid a lockout this time, it sucked to have reports on negotiations instead of reports on games. In Rockets news, the team is playing awesome which makes a nice change from last year! Beverley coming back from injury has removed the one weak link from the rotation (Tyler Ennis) and the result is a team on the rampage. The young guys (Capela, Dekker, Harrell) are all stepping up, which feels great to watch and is such a nice change from last season. Only thing I'm a little bummed out about is the Motiejunas situation. Two years ago he had an amazing season and looked like he was going to be a stud for years to come. He was my favourite player that year because of his post moves and defense. Now it seems as though the physical might have fallen through, which is a real shame. I'd be saddened if I never got to see him in Rockets red again. ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Sir Thursday said: In Rockets news, the team is playing awesome which makes a nice change from last year! AND you don't have to irrationally hope that Josh Smith, of all people, will bail out your season. That must have been a low point for you =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 RIP Craig Sager. Legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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