Eggegg Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, SeanF said: The serious part is the allegation that he rubbed his crotch against her, which, if true, is a sexual assault. He has released a statement and denies this however and I'm not even sure what that even describes (if its even possible), or how it could ever be proven to have been on purpose and not accidental. If people can get fired for accidentally hugging too hard then there is an issue. Having porn on a work computer is probably a sackable offence, at least a severe reprimand in my mind. The severe nature of it means its being investigated by the police. I mean, every man looks at porn, you just don't do it at work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Eggegg said: He has released a statement and denies this however and I'm not even sure what that even describes (if its even possible), or how it could ever be proven to have been on purpose and not accidental. If people can get fired for accidentally hugging too hard then there is an issue. Having porn on a work computer is probably a sackable offence, at least a severe reprimand in my mind. The severe nature of it means its being investigated by the police. I mean, every man looks at porn, you just don't do it at work.. No employer would entertain a complaint from a proven liar that one of their staff had had porn on their computer 9 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 BBC headline 'Mrs Browns Boys put £2m offshore', that's right BBC, go after the big fucking fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 It seems there are almost too many political stories to keep up with. Priti Patel seems to be trying to take advantage of the overload by hoping she can quietly apologise for secretly meeting with Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli officials behind the backs of the British government and then trying to lie about it afterwards. Meanwhile it seems that Boris Johnson may have caused serious problems for a British citizen imprisoned in Iran by mistakenly suggesting to a Parliamentary committee she was visiting Iran as a journalist. His careless grasp of facts was always likely to be a problem for him in the role of Foreign Secretary. In any sane times those both sound potentially like resigning offences, but these days who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Patel should definitely be losing her job. I'm not sure this particular incident would merit Johnson losing his, I'd say the unreasonable oppressive regime is more the problem with this than Johnson misspeaking in this case. It does illustrate the problem with having someone so undiplomatic as your Foreign Secretary once again though. I'm not sure there's anybody in any position to actually fire either of them though with how powerless May is looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 And in adjdition to the above mentioned things, party leaders agreed to a new complaints procedure for sexual harassment complaints. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41892271 seems pretty vague to me and my initial reaction was big whoop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, ljkeane said: Patel should definitely be losing her job. I'm not sure this particular incident would merit Johnson losing his, I'd say the unreasonable oppressive regime is more the problem with this than Johnson misspeaking in this case. It does illustrate the problem with having someone so undiplomatic as your Foreign Secretary once again though. Clearly the Iranians are primarily to blame for the situation, but I don't that excuses Johnson's unforced error because their reaction to hiss comments could have been predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Johnson should definitely resign. His utter incompetence in this matter should be the final straw and he should have to go. This is one ludicrous gaffe after another with real, measurable consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Jesus, i'm all for scumbags getting their just deserts, but dying because of it seems a bit much. And this is why this sort of stuff should be played out in private, before guilt is established. Though on the other side of the coin, maybe so many victims wouldn't have been brave enough to come forward if it wasn't for the huge public nature of the current situation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Jesus, i'm all for scumbags getting their just deserts, but dying because of it seems a bit much. And this is why this sort of stuff should be played out in private, before guilt is established. Though on the other side of the coin, maybe so many victims wouldn't have been brave enough to come forward if it wasn't for the huge public nature of the current situation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643003 Pretty sure this is the wrong link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanluke Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 23 minutes ago, The BlackBear said: Pretty sure this is the wrong link? Think he meant this one http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Yes i did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Oh fuck. Hadn't heard about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: Jesus, i'm all for scumbags getting their just deserts, but dying because of it seems a bit much. And this is why this sort of stuff should be played out in private, before guilt is established. Though on the other side of the coin, maybe so many victims wouldn't have been brave enough to come forward if it wasn't for the huge public nature of the current situation. It's a tragic situation for all concerned. If it is true that they were fired without being told about what the accusation against them was or being given a chance to defend themselves then there seems to be something seriously wrong with the process. The privacy argument is a difficult one, Harvey Weinstein would probably still be comfortable in his position of power in Hollywood if none of the accusations against him had been reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 It seems like Priti Patel is going to get sacked. I'd say that's pretty clearly the right call but May's managed to make herself look weak again by initially backing Patel and then crumbling under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 13 hours ago, ljkeane said: It seems like Priti Patel is going to get sacked. I'd say that's pretty clearly the right call but May's managed to make herself look weak again by initially backing Patel and then crumbling under pressure. You also can't sack her for her lesser offence and keep Boris in the job for his much bigger and more serious gaffe, with more serious ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 47 minutes ago, Werthead said: You also can't sack her for her lesser offence and keep Boris in the job for his much bigger and more serious gaffe, with more serious ramifications. Er, I really don't think it's the lesser offense. Johnson's not good at his job but in this case misspoke about something which should be relatively innocuous, even if the Iranian government chooses to massively overreact to it. Patel deliberately arranged secret meetings with with foreign government officials, including the Israeli Prime Minister, in the company of a lobbyist, visited occupied territory as the guest of the Israeli government, came back and advocated giving aid money to the IDF (not quite as bad as it sounds but still) and then lied about it to the press. To cap it off when she spoke to May about all of this she apparently failed to mention she's had two more secret meetings with Israeli officials since this trip. It'd probably look even more suspicious but apparently the Israelis didn't know she was keeping these meetings from the UK government so were posting pictures on instagram the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 28 minutes ago, ljkeane said: Johnson's not good at his job but in this case misspoke about something which should be relatively innocuous, even if the Iranian government chooses to massively overreact to it. Patel deliberately arranged secret meetings with with foreign government officials, including the Israeli Prime Minister, in the company of a lobbyist, visited occupied territory as the guest of the Israeli government, came back and advocated giving aid money to the IDF (not quite as bad as it sounds but still) and then lied about it to the press. To cap it off when she spoke to May about all of this she apparently failed to mention she's had two more secret meetings with Israeli officials since this trip. It'd probably look even more suspicious but apparently the Israelis didn't know she was keeping these meetings from the UK government so were posting pictures on instagram the whole time. Johnson's "misspeaking" could result in someone spending an additional five years in an Iranian jail when she has done absolutely nothing wrong, because the case hinges on the claim that she was in Iran doing something to undermine the Iranian government. Johnson's claim that she was working with Iranian journalists - which he seems to have made up out of thin air - directly reinforced the Iranian government position. That is incompetence on a massive scale and he needs to go. The Patel situation is serious, but Number 10 has been caught out a couple of times because they did know about some (but not all) of the meetings, and gave the impression they didn't. The situation is highly confused and it appears that Number 10 has mishandled it as well. She also needs to go, but it'll be interesting to see what information comes out about what Number 10 did and didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, Werthead said: That is incompetence on a massive scale and he needs to go. To be blunt, while I'm sure it's extremely worrying for her family, I don't think the extension or not of one person's jail sentence qualifies as being of massive significance relative to the responsibilities of being Foreign Secretary. Johnson should lose his job because he's really not very good at it but mistakenly saying someone was doing one innocent thing instead of the other innocent thing she was doing doesn't merit being sacked over because an oppressive regime chooses to respond in an oppressive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 The Jewish Chronicle now has it from three separate sources that Number 10 did know about Patel's meeting with the Israeli Prime Minister, something they are vehemently denying. That's very dangerous, if it turns out they did know about the meeting and have forced Patel to lie, then May's position will be untenable. Trevor Kavanagh, not exactly a Labour cheerleader, saying that this could collapse the entire government depending on how badly it unravels and he is certain that Labour would win any new snap election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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