Blade Runner 2049 - more human than human [Spoilers!]

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

Sunshine was more of a wanna-be Event Horizon than a wanna-be 2001. 

Don't forget Armageddon!

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I liked Interstellar well enough but it was a load of cobblers. A relatively accurate depiction of time dilation (and even there I recall some handwave about why the beacon seems to be working to tempt them down) doesn't excuse it for every other piece of nonsense.

I could even let the dubious science slide if it wasn't for how utterly idiotic all the astronauts were. This was the best humanity had to offer? A marooned maniac intent on killing his rescuers to escape, someone who makes extinction-level decisions based on their boyfriend's location, and the guy in charge of the whole thing deliberately lying to everyone. Humanity deserved to die in that film if that was the best they had to offer. Thankfully Hans Zimmer, the visuals and the robot (which I initially hated) saved that film for me. That and "The martian" as an antidote to stupid astronauts.

[williamjm]

11 hours ago, ants said:

Passengers was also pretty good.  

I do wonder how the people mentioned on the previous page complaining about BR2049 and Ex Machina being misogynistic feel about Passengers, which I thought was far more problematic.

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Sunshine was wicked when I saw it in the cinema. I don't know if that's how you did it, but almost universally those I know who saw it that way liked it a lot and those who saw it later didn't, so much. It was a proper sensory experience thing.

I really enjoyed Sunshine and it did look spectacular, although it does get increasingly stupid towards the end (not that there isn't some stupidity earlier on, such as sending the one irreplaceable member of the crew on a hazardous spacewalk).

7 hours ago, mcbigski said:

I didnt understand the scene where Wallace kills the new replicant.  He gives a monologue about how hard it is to make each replicant and then stabs one to death about a minute after birthing her because he already knew she was sterile?  Surely they have a less hands on/more clinical approach to ending failed experiments besides scalpel to the uterus.

I get that it makes him look like a lunatic asshole, but I really dont understand the reasoning behind it from his point of view.  

I think that might be the worst written scene in the film, the only purpose it serves is to let Wallace do a monologue in which he tells the audience what his motivations are.

[Ran]

Wallace is a really poorly-thought-out character, when you include his prequel mini-movie scene. Mad messiah who is basically completely immune to consequences. 

[ants]

7 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Saw it last night for the first time.

I didnt understand the scene where Wallace kills the new replicant.  He gives a monologue about how hard it is to make each replicant and then stabs one to death about a minute after birthing her because he already knew she was sterile?  Surely they have a less hands on/more clinical approach to ending failed experiments besides scalpel to the uterus.

I get that it makes him look like a lunatic asshole, but I really dont understand the reasoning behind it from his point of view.  

I think the reasoning would be that she's effectively a goldmine of proprietary information.  If she's Wallace Corp's best attempt at a replicant that can reproduce, she's special.  I find it doubtful that there aren't other corporations monitoring replicant production and/or even producing their own.  So someone like her can't just be sent out.

Also, I got the feeling that the memories are a significant part of the control/obey system.  They may be tailored to each job.  Although how that fits with replicants that would be born I do not know.  

[Corvinus85]

My conclusion on the Wallace scene, at the time, was that he considered that replicant irrelevant now that the a different, better possibility existed of making more of them, and in a fit of lunacy, he killed her.

[felice]

1 hour ago, williamjm said:

I do wonder how the people mentioned on the previous page complaining about BR2049 and Ex Machina being misogynistic feel about Passengers, which I thought was far more problematic.

Personally it sounded so problematic that I didn't bother seeing it. BR2049 is perhaps a bit dubious, but no more so than the original, or most other Hollywood output, for that matter.

[Darth Richard II]

I mean, its a dystopian film, the future it present sis SUPPOSE to be bad.

Also, my main problem with the sicence in Sunshine is that it kind of ignores the fact that the sun is really bright and king of hot.

[boojam]

7 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Monsters was the best SF film of 2010. Just saying.

You know I forgot about Monsters, Gareth Edwards's breakout movie, it was good.

[boojam]

5 hours ago, red snow said:

It's just a shame the film has underperformed. Not sure what that says about the general consumer of film. Probably just means with the insane production costs of films nowadays that they are essentially forced into make a crowd pleaser. I'm hoping it does well in the awards season and I'm pretty sure it's a film that will do well in blu-ray sales. I'll certainly be looking for the version with the most "how this beautiful film was crafted" features.

 It will make 200 million world wide before the week is out. Now have to see what the take from Japan and Chinia is.

Thinking the other day, Dunkirk is not an easy movie, it has Nolan's time shifting and it is not a pop corn crowd movie. Made 187 million domestically and 336 world wide to give it 500 million. Seems some of the Dunkirk crowd should go see BR2049.

[williamjm]

4 minutes ago, boojam said:

 It will make 200 million world wide before the week is out. Now have to see what the take from Japan and Chinia is.

Thinking the other day, Dunkirk is not an easy movie, it has Nolan's time shifting and it is not a pop corn crowd movie. Made 187 million domestically and 336 world wide to give it 500 million. Seems some of the Dunkirk crowd should go see BR2049.

I was looking at some box office comparisons, and at least it looks like BR2049 is going to eclipse Ridley Scott's own Alien Covenant, it's already just ahead at the US box office and closing on the Worldwide figure, although given the relative quality of the two films and how worthy they are as entries in their respective franchises it should really be making twice what Alien Covenant made.

[Darth Richard II]

Alien covenant did not happen and does not exist *angry glare*

[boojam]

Saw the movie for a third time today, some things struck me.

From the story we seem to have the implication that Freysa and Sapper have been somehow part of a 'replicant-underground' for a long time and that underground has a plan. Hints of it here and there. I mean even Deckard says there was a plan. We don't see anything explicit except small clues and hints. The 'replicant-underground' seems quite clever , even more clever than the Tyrell corporation, or even Wallace. Like there is a great underground conspiracy by the mysterious rebel replicants one that has been going on for 30 + years.

There is Freysa holding Ana , seems she has both eyes at that time. What a back story for Fresya and Sapper! They saw off world combat on Calantha , met there, got back to Earth by 2019? So they are Nexus 7s?, have been alive longer than 30 years. Seems the replicant underground existed before they got back to Earth. Maybe they knew about it while out there. Maybe the underground helped them get back? Maybe the underground helped Batty's group?

Deckard and Rachael were only together long enough for them to find out she was pregnant. 2 months, 5 months, 8 months?...  they find the replicant underground , plan Ana's future with Sapper and Freysa and then Rachael dies in child birth and Deckard is not there. That's gut wrenching. And Sapper and Freysa take care of Ana till she is old enough to go to the orphanage?

By the by could it be that Ana's bubble life is a ruse, a cover?

[williamjm]

8 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Alien covenant did not happen and does not exist *angry glare*

You are right, of course, the whole thing must have been a bad dream I had, it's not plausible that Scott could have made an Alien film that so badly missed everything that was good about the original.

[Darth Richard II]

10 minutes ago, williamjm said:

You are right, of course, the whole thing must have been a bad dream I had, it's not plausible that Scott could have made an Alien film that so badly missed everything that was good about the original.

Oh he's on record saying the next alien film(ha) isn't even going to have the alien in it cause audiences clearly are sick of it abd want more robot magneto.

[Darth Richard II]

16 minutes ago, boojam said:

Saw the movie for a third time today, some things struck me.

 

From the story we seem to have the implication that Freysa and Sapper have been somehow part of a 'replicant-underground' for a long time and that underground has a plan. Hints of it here and there. I mean even Deckard says there was a plan. We don't see anything explicit except small clues and hints. The 'replicant-underground' seems quite clever , even more clever than the Tyrell corporation, or even Wallace. Like there is a great underground conspiracy by the mysterious rebel replicants one that has been going on for 30 + years.

 

There is Freysa holding Ana , seems she has both eyes at that time. What a back story for Fresya and Sapper! They saw off world combat on Calantha , met there, got back to Earth by 2019? So they are Nexus 7s?, have been alive longer than 30 years. Seems the replicant underground existed before they got back to Earth. Maybe they knew about it while out there. Maybe the underground helped them get back? Maybe the underground helped Batty's group?

 

Deckard and Rachael were only together long enough for them to find out she was pregnant. 2 months, 5 months, 8 months?...  they find the replicant underground , plan Ana's future with Sapper and Freysa and then Rachael dies in child birth and Deckard is not there. That's gut wrenching. And Sapper and Freysa take care of Ana till she is old enough to go to the orphanage?

 

By the by could it be that Ana's bubble life is a ruse, a cover?

 

I thought the bubble thing was a cover, too.

[ants]

6 hours ago, boojam said:

Saw the movie for a third time today, some things struck me.

From the story we seem to have the implication that Freysa and Sapper have been somehow part of a 'replicant-underground' for a long time and that underground has a plan. Hints of it here and there. I mean even Deckard says there was a plan. We don't see anything explicit except small clues and hints. The 'replicant-underground' seems quite clever , even more clever than the Tyrell corporation, or even Wallace. Like there is a great underground conspiracy by the mysterious rebel replicants one that has been going on for 30 + years.

There is Freysa holding Ana , seems she has both eyes at that time. What a back story for Fresya and Sapper! They saw off world combat on Calantha , met there, got back to Earth by 2019? So they are Nexus 7s?, have been alive longer than 30 years. Seems the replicant underground existed before they got back to Earth. Maybe they knew about it while out there. Maybe the underground helped them get back? Maybe the underground helped Batty's group?

Deckard and Rachael were only together long enough for them to find out she was pregnant. 2 months, 5 months, 8 months?...  they find the replicant underground , plan Ana's future with Sapper and Freysa and then Rachael dies in child birth and Deckard is not there. That's gut wrenching. And Sapper and Freysa take care of Ana till she is old enough to go to the orphanage?

By the by could it be that Ana's bubble life is a ruse, a cover?

I don't think the "Replicant Underground" predated Decker and Rachel.  He said he was the one who taught that group of replicants the system, how to hide, how to get identities, etc.  He was almost certainly either a precursor or instigator, and neither he nor Batty probably got any assistance from it.  I think Deckard may have even mentioned finding the group that Sapper and Freysa were part of, was it 6 replicants? It would be interesting to know if it was the same underground that caused the Blackout.  Given humanities reaction to replicants pre and post the Blackout (killing replicants before, stopping replicant production after), it is understandable that they would tread very quietly with the next "mutiny".  

Wallace clear believes there is at least a loose group of replicants, the main information he wants from Deckard is who else assisted hide the child as he believes they are alive and he can track them.  He doesn't actually think Deckard knows anything about the child's current location (which he is correct about).  However, it is doubtful Wallace envisages that there are any of his replicants that are part of it.  Surprise! 

And many here have speculated the bubble life is a ruse.  

[Ran]

8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I mean, its a dystopian film, the future it present sis SUPPOSE to be bad.

I don't think that the narrative choices made in BR2049 regarding the roles of women in the story are supposed to be because it's a dystopia. I don't really think they thought that far about it. I'd go with felice's suggestion -- it's the pervasive imbalance of Hollywood studio films that we're seeing reflected more than anything.

[boojam]

5 hours ago, ants said:

I don't think the "Replicant Underground" predated Decker and Rachel.  He said he was the one who taught that group of replicants the system, how to hide, how to get identities, etc.  He was almost certainly either a precursor or instigator, and neither he nor Batty probably got any assistance from it.  I think Deckard may have even mentioned finding the group that Sapper and Freysa were part of, was it 6 replicants? It would be interesting to know if it was the same underground that caused the Blackout.  Given humanities reaction to replicants pre and post the Blackout (killing replicants before, stopping replicant production after), it is understandable that they would tread very quietly with the next "mutiny".  

 

Deckard relates no information like that in his conversation with K. In fact about all he says is "it was part of the plan". Plan with who and for what purpose? To hid the secret of Rachael's daughter , man they went to a lot of trouble to do that. Even if Deckard was involved it took a number of individuals, the replicant underground?, to pull off the 'black-out' and destruction of records.

[boojam]

14 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I mean, its a dystopian film, the future it present sis SUPPOSE to be bad.

 

The use of Dystopia for BR2049 these days seems odd to me. It seems a dystopia for the replicants , so to speak. Even tho there is an environmental crisis and 'overcrowding' (I don't buy that, but give it to the story)(by the by why is K's building vacant when Luv arrrives?).... is there a general dystopia? We don't really see , in either film, how the middle class lives, I guess Deckard is sort of 'middle class' and while not great seems to have a good apartment.

One could say , at the present moment, because of all the problems about we live in a dystopia.

[Ran]

The orphange's use of child slave labor, the scavengers in the wastelands, the irradiated Las Vegas, the desperate desire to get off-world, the megalomaniac business magnate who openly slaughters representatives of government when they try to enforce laws that he doesn't like and seems to get away with it with no apparent consequences save the further increase of his power, the near-complete collapse of the environment and the overcrowding into urban megalopolises as the only alternative -- yeah, it's a dystopic vision of the future which has its seeds in, yes, the concerns that existed in the early 80's through the present regarding the environmental, corporate multinationals, etc.