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Lumosaca

Will The Winds of Winter be the longest book?

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Writing about twenty points of view is serious stuff. We have never seen something like that in the series. Probably characters like Aeron or Barristan will die before A Dream of Spring, but in my opinion the number of different events and locations will be enough to make The Winds of Winter longer than the previous books (or even than the final one). What do you think?  

Edited by Lumosaca

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I think winds will be divided in 2 volumes.

As you said it will start with a lot of povs. In adition we have hundreds of pages that were suposed to be included in the previous books and were moved to winds.

I smiply can t imagine a book that has nearly as many povs as affc and adwd added being one volume.

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IF the winds of winter comes out (it won't) I don't imagine it being as long as ASOS or ADWD but probably longer than ACOK.  Some of the POVs are back together in the same area (Theon/Asha, Jaime/Brienne, Tyrion/Barristan, JonCon/Arianne) and many will surely die soon.  We can only hope that GRRM is trying to cull down the series as it comes to a close.

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2 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Wouldn't we have received the first volume by now?

Not if they are published at the same time.

If grrm considers that dividing AFfC and ADwD per locations (and 6 years) was a bad move he can want to publish the 2 vols of winds together and with the chapters in the order he wants.

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6 minutes ago, divica said:

Not if they are published at the same time.

If grrm considers that dividing AFfC and ADwD per locations (and 6 years) was a bad move he can want to publish the 2 vols of winds together and with the chapters in the order he wants.

Great news!  We'll now get a minimum of 3 novels in about 12-20 years.  Will someone please pass the Kool-Aid?

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4 minutes ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

Great news!  We'll now get a minimum of 3 novels in about 12-20 years.  Will someone please pass the Kool-Aid?

it has been 7 years since ADwD right? so why are you so amazed?

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Winds is already the longest wait for a book in the series.  How can we possibly predict how long the book will be when we finally get it?

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

it has been 7 years since ADwD right? so why are you so amazed?

I'm not amazed, GRRM is working very hard.  We love GRRM :D.

(Pssss!  We can't speak here, the moderators will hunt us down.  Meet me in the Dothraki forum if you want to know the truth, no one ever goes there.)

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1 hour ago, Sour Billy Tipton said:

(Pssss!  We can't speak here, the moderators will hunt us down.  Meet me in the Dothraki forum if you want to know the truth, no one ever goes there.)

:rofl:

I had to struggle to keep the My Pappy Van Winkles Family bourbon from spilling. :thumbsup:

 

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7 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Or the chapters will be shorter and less for each person.  It should be in line with Dance in terms of the number of pages.  GRRM is not known to use word economy and he does painstakingly sets up important events. 

The sample chapters we have seen aren t properly short...

But yeah. He could do a book with the character with most povs has about 5 chapters...

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1 minute ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

It's not unprecedented.  Areo Hotah, Aeron,  Mel had but a few chapters.

But there were always characters with 10 povs or even more. I think we would have too few povs from the main characters if winds is only a volume...

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I expect TWOW to be a different sort of experience for us.   Right this minute I'm listening to an interview with GRRM and Robin Hobb.   He describes the original trilogy that ballooned as he  wrote.  He does say (and motions with his hands to illustrate) how this spherical experience is narrowing in TWOW.  You can listen to it on YouTube.  I'm currently analyzing the culling of subplots and characters.   Yes, back in sword mode!  It's clear 7 volumes cannot sustain this story in it's current form.  It's not unreasonable to anticipate streamlining and I'm so excited to read the narrowing.  I still think this will be an huge if not multiple volume tome.  Bring on the mergers and blood!  

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I would like to read the next installment of this saga. Granted the man has a busy life and has enriched the community of the arts.   A writer does not owe anyone anything. A writer tells a story or no.

I can only hope that he finishes his tale. Step back a moment and think about the fame and notoriety that Martin achieved with his HBO deal and read this 2011 article.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/04/11/just-write-it

If anyone reads the article and steps outside the forum bubble I would be interested in their thoughts.

 

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8 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I expect TWOW to be a different sort of experience for us.   Right this minute I'm listening to an interview with GRRM and Robin Hobb.   He describes the original trilogy that ballooned as he  wrote.  He does say (and motions with his hands to illustrate) how this spherical experience is narrowing in TWOW.  You can listen to it on YouTube.  I'm currently analyzing the culling of subplots and characters.   Yes, back in sword mode!  It's clear 7 volumes cannot sustain this story in it's current form.  It's not unreasonable to anticipate streamlining and I'm so excited to read the narrowing.  I still think this will be an huge if not multiple volume tome.  Bring on the mergers and blood!  

Look at this

Quote

A Feast for Crows

A Dance with Dragons

  • Jon Snow - 13 chapters
  • Tyrion Lannister - 12 chapters
  • Daenerys Targaryen - 10 chapters
  • Theon Greyjoy - 7 chapters
  • Quentyn Martell - 4 chapters
  • Davos Seaworth - 4 chapters
  • Barristan Selmy - 4 chapters
  • Asha Greyjoy - 3 chapters
  • Bran Stark - 3 chapters
  • Jon Connington - 2 chapters
  • Cersei Lannister - 2 chapters
  • Victarion Greyjoy - 2 chapters
  • Arya Stark - 2 chapters
  • Areo Hotah - 1 chapter
  • Jaime Lannister - 1 chapter
  • Melisandre - 1 chapter
  • Varamyr Sixskins - 1 chapter (Prologue)
  • Kevan Lannister - 1 chapter (Epilogue)

The Winds of Winter (so far confirmed)

  • Arianne Martell - 2 chapters
  • Barristan Selmy - 2 chapters
  • Tyrion Lannister - 2 chapters
  • Arya Stark - 1 chapter
  • Sansa Stark - 1 chapter
  • Theon Greyjoy - 1 chapter
  • Victarion Greyjoy - 1 chapter
  • Aeron Greyjoy - 1 chapter

AFfC and ADwD had 22 pov characters (If I counted right). From where only 7 had more than 5 chaps...

In adition in winds we already have 8 pov characters and several of them seem that will have much more chaps. For exemple arianne, barristan, tyrion, victarion... And with 11 chaps if we only have 1 volume then we have read about 15% of the book and most of the that was suposed to be in the other books.

I simply don t see how he can merge so many povs and arcs in a single volume

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21 minutes ago, divica said:

Look at this

AFfC and ADwD had 22 pov characters (If I counted right). From where only 7 had more than 5 chaps...

In adition in winds we already have 8 pov characters and several of them seem that will have much more chaps. For exemple arianne, barristan, tyrion, victarion... And with 11 chaps if we only have 1 volume then we have read about 15% of the book and most of the that was suposed to be in the other books.

I simply don t see how he can merge so many povs and arcs in a single volume

We have 2 big battles about to resolved that should eliminate as many as 5 POVs and several villains rendering a chunk of conflict obsolete.  If you look at Winterfell, where there are no eyes inside.   So who will tell the tale?  Theon and Asha are outside.   Last I heard Bran was only speaking through the heart tree.  Will Stannis die?  Mance?  The Boltons?  Manderly?   Obviously we need to know this information and Bran can actually tell all of it in a single chapter.  We are already fairly progressed in the Arianne chapters.  Once she meets up with her characters we don't need that other POV or hers, depending on how it falls out.   Certainly we can use the past to predict the future.  Still this story is designed to get everyone on the path they need to be on.   As I say, I just watched GRRM describe TWOW and its progress specific to narrowing POVs.  We just discussed Brienne and Jamie. for 2 weeks  I have a vision for how this could tidy up.  Kings Landing is reasonably cut and dry.  If Sansa has progressed as much as the sample chapter assures us she may only need 2 more chapters to tell her story.  A few years back I was really wondering about this and made a topic over in the TWOW subforum where readers with very different ideas from my own showed me how every single character and story could be ended.   

Jon won't have a POV until he is restored to health or revived.  When/if he gets his POV back there will be no need for Melisandre's POV.   No prologue characters have repeated.  Arya may not be able to stay in Braavos now forcing her back to Westeros or out toward Mereen.  Truth is Bran can tell this story in 3rd person for the entire north.   As much as I enjoy all the Greyjoy POVs at least Vic, Aeron and Theon are in precarious situations.  

What I'm trying (not very well) to say is that we were left with cliffhangers indicating the end of several stories in AFFC and ADWD.   We could see Brienne die in Jamie 1 or vice versa.   Anything can happen.   Sam could go running after Marwyn.   Euron could attack Old Town and kill both of them.  There are so many possibilities, divica.  And I'm not counting a 2 part TWOW out, either.   If you have a week to read the old topic in the TWOW subforum it is called Merging Story Lines and has a great deal to offer regarding this.  

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