NBA playoffs 2018 - Raptors over Cavs in 6

[Jaime L]

5 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm still a little up and down on Horford. It was really frustrating watching him in the playoffs last year, seemed like they couldn't get a rebound in critical moments. But yeah, he's been so vital as the anchor and nerve center of the team. His contributions have been easy to overlook when the hyped stories have been IT, then Kyrie, then Tatum and Brown. I'm not sure I buy that the Bucks would have won if they'd had Kyrie but not Horford, but it's at least plausible to me now, and I wouldn't have thought that even a couple of months ago.

Yeah the other guys get the glory but I do think Horford between his screens and spacing and doing all the little things that make things so much easier for the primary scorers. 

This might be a hot take but I think Rozier gives you 80% of what Kyrie does. Not the same brilliant shotmaking but he's great from distance and as an opposing fan I find his ability to make backbreaking shots terrifying. Solid trolling of Eric Bledsoe too. 

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

If you know you have an uber talented player with tendencies to check out if he doesn't get early touches, tell Teague and Butler to pass him the freaking ball. 

This is what I was screaming at the TV set the first couple Rockets-T'Wolves games. I think at one point KAT went 4 straight quarters without either a shot attempt or a make....either way is just insanity. And then watching Derrick freaking Rose thinking he still possesses his 2011 form and deserves every shot attempt coming off the bench it was infuriating. Everything was ass backwards. New Orleans came to understand exactly what it needed to be and somehow Minnesota went the other way. To the extent that's Thibs, launch him into the sun. 

[James Arryn]

What’s weird about Wiggins was that in college his D was considered his safest strength, but people thought he might lack the Alpha mentality on offence, passed too much. 

In the Raps/Cavs game, JV is looking like a serious match-up issue, though in part we can keep him on the floor because the Cavs aren’t driving much, and LBJ looks pretty tired. 

[Jaime L]

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

What’s weird about Wiggins was that in college his D was considered his safest strength, but people thought he might lack the Alpha mentality on offence, passed too much. 

In the Raps/Cavs game, JV is looking like a serious match-up issue, though in part we can keep him on the floor because the Cavs aren’t driving much, and LBJ looks pretty tired. 

Exactly. Thought at worst Wiggins would be a great defender in the NBA but seems to possess zero instincts for it as a pro. 

JV was the difference maker against the Wizards once Casey started playing him in the 4th quarter. His offensive ability and rebounding fill a big need and he can stay out there as long as the Cavs play Thompson. A pair of truly awful misses right there though. 

ETA: Holy shit with all the chances the Raptors had at the end of regulation.

[Rhom]

15 hours ago, Rhom said:

Scorching Hot Take!

Celtics will knock off the media darling Sixers.  Raptors will continue their deer in the headlights act with LeBron.

Cavs beat the depleted Celtics and go back to the Finals again.

Just quoting myself here.

[Jaime L]

The Raptors got these big claws and fangs. And they're staring at these claws and thinking to themselves and they're thinking "how do I kill this bunny?" 

[Rhom]

3 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Just quoting myself here.  

When you’re right, you’re right... and you?  You’re always right.

[Rhom]

1 minute ago, Triskele said:

We're not doing it for the money....

We’re doing it for a shit load of money!

[James Arryn]

It’s funny because it’s true; life as a Raps fan.

[IamMe90]

Anthony Davis is so phenomenally good at all pertinent aspects of basketball it's honestly almost incomprehensible. It is an absolute joy to watch the ~unibrow~ do his thing.

Also, this Pels-GSW game is fucking lit as hell. I'm sure it will devolve soon enough, but this first half has been absolutely incredible, high-intensity and pace basketball. 

ALSO ALSO, god damn you Steph Curry, you are ridiculous. 

EVEN FURTHER ADDENDUM: Rajon Rondo should honestly become a coach when he retires. It's the rare kind of NBA player-to-coach transition that makes complete sense. The dude's BBIQ and passing precision is just unparalleled. 

[briantw]

5 hours ago, James Arryn said:

What’s weird about Wiggins was that in college his D was considered his safest strength, but people thought he might lack the Alpha mentality on offence, passed too much. 

I think that people projected him as an elite defender because he was an elite athlete.  He's just never managed to turn that athleticism into anything other than a below league average player.  

Kudos to him for actually getting a team to give him the max, though.  That's gonna be the worst albatross in the league going forward.

[Red Tiger]

8 hours ago, briantw said:

I think that people projected him as an elite defender because he was an elite athlete.  He's just never managed to turn that athleticism into anything other than a below league average player.  

Kudos to him for actually getting a team to give him the max, though.  That's gonna be the worst albatross in the league going forward.

Oh don't worry, witness the cavs breaking the bank on an underachiever after LeBron bolts this offseason.

[Relic]

16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Wiggins has only one flaw,

You mean other than not shooting well, playing bad defense, and liking Michael Bolton? 

That 43% from the field is just not what you want out of a maxxed out dude. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 hours ago, Jaime L said:

This is what I was screaming at the TV set the first couple Rockets-T'Wolves games. I think at one point KAT went 4 straight quarters without either a shot attempt or a make....either way is just insanity. And then watching Derrick freaking Rose thinking he still possesses his 2011 form and deserves every shot attempt coming off the bench it was infuriating. Everything was ass backwards. New Orleans came to understand exactly what it needed to be and somehow Minnesota went the other way. To the extent that's Thibs, launch him into the sun. 

I’ve been saying it all season. Last year this team, despite its faults, moved the ball. Getting rid of Rubio was a huge mistake, and the Jazz are showing just why. He can’t shoot, but he set up his teammates to succeed. I think the most glaring criticism of this team is when Barkley said he only saw Wiggins dunk once in the playoffs. He used to have a highlight dunk every game last year, and it’s because Rubio would get it to him in the right spot. Here are three examples from this season that highlight the Wolves inability to move the ball and get their non-ISO players shots:

In a game, Teague on four consecutive plays dribbled the ball for 18 seconds and then called his own number.

In another, KAT scored 26 points on 10 shots, going 9/10 and was screaming for the ball. He never got it. Those were all put backs.

In another, Wiggins played an entire quarter and touched the ball one time, on a defensive rebound.

The point is Butler, Teague and Crawford never passed the ball to Wiggins or Towns, and Thibs never ran plays for the two. Add in Rose and the team’s two most important players became irrelevant. And it’s unwatchable. I was a sophomore  in high school the last time this team made the playoffs, and I watched two of the five games. Their style of play offends me. That’s why I say that if you just change the coach and get a modern mind this team can destroy people.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, Relic said:

You mean other than not shooting well, playing bad defense, and liking Michael Bolton? 

That 43% from the field is just not what you want out of a maxxed out dude. 

He’s actually not a bad shooter. He’s just streaky, and he never got easy shots this year. Last year he got a lot of easy shots posting up and at the rim. That didn’t happen this year, and all season long he was getting the ball with 3 seconds left and having to chuck up bad shots. Teague and Butler dribble the ball for 18 seconds and either take a bad shot or set their teammates up for even worse shots. That’s the core problem with this team. There’s no flow. I will admit that the defense is confusing considering he was supposed to be an elite defender.  I chalk that up to him not giving 100% 100% of the time. Which goes back to his main flaw. If you fixed that he’d be insane.

The Bolton clip is funny. Admit it!

[Rhom]

Attention residents of the Westeros thread!  I have an announcement to make... and it is not that I reciprocate Triskele's declaration of platonic love.  (Although I do.)

I am prepared to admit a mistake.  I have long stated that trading Wiggins for Love was the wrong move.  I am now moving on from that after four long years and admitting that Wiggins would not have been worth keeping in Cleveland.  I am ready to accept your jeers.

 

8 hours ago, briantw said:

  That's gonna be the worst albatross in the league going forward.

 

43 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Oh don't worry, witness the cavs breaking the bank on an underachiever after LeBron bolts this offseason.

Talking bad max contracts and the Cavs... we don't even have to go to next season... witness Tristan Thompson.

[Relic]

3 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I am prepared to admit a mistake.  I have long stated that trading Wiggins for Love was the wrong move.  I am now moving on from that after four long years and admitting that Wiggins would not have been worth keeping in Cleveland.  I am ready to accept your jeers.

Ohh it tastes so sweeeeeeeet!! 

 

(admire the admission)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Speaking of bad contracts, I give you Hassan Whiteside. Say what you will about Wiggins, but it’s not like the Wolves are paying $25m a year for an old guy who played 10 minutes and had 2 points and 5 rebounds in their elimination game…  

[Red Tiger]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Talking bad max contracts and the Cavs... we don't even have to go to next season... witness Tristan Thompson.

Ah, shit! I forgot. Welp, that settles it.

Also, as to the Wiggins thing, thank you, sir. Now lets hope Tywin sees the light as well.

[briantw]

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

Talking bad max contracts and the Cavs... we don't even have to go to next season... witness Tristan Thompson.

1. Tristan Thompson is not making the max.  He's making roughly half of the current max.
2. Tristan Thompson will be off the books in two years.
3. Prior to this year, Tristan Thompson has been a positive contributor for basically every year in his career.  
4. This is, by far, the worst season of Tristan Thompson's career.  He's still beating Wiggins in the following advanced stats: VORP, BPM (tied), WS, WS/48, PER.

There really isn't an argument that, over the course of their careers, Wiggins has been better than Tristan Thompson.  In a year when most would agree that Thompson has been absolute dog shit, he's still having a slightly better impact on his team than Wiggins is on his own.  Is Tristan Thompson overpaid?  Absolutely.  He was a free agent at the right time, right as the cap exploded, and like many people, he got a larger piece of the pie than he would have otherwise.

However, Thompson's contract isn't in the same ballpark of bad deals as Wiggins' contract is.  Wiggins will be making 33 million dollars (!) five fucking years from now.  This is a player who has never once made a team better while he was on the court.  He's been a below replacement level player all four years of his career.  His best years are comparable, from an advanced stats perspective, to Tristan Thompson's absolute worst year by far.  Wiggins is the definition of an empty stats player.  He scores a bunch of points, but his team is never better when he's on the court than when he's not.  Thompson, prior to this season, was the opposite.  He's never put up gaudy numbers, but he was mostly a positive contributor on the floor.

But again, comparing Wiggins' contract to Thompson's is absurd.  Wiggins' contract is the worst contract in the league.  Thompson's probably wouldn't even crack the top ten right now.  Wiggins is one of the highest players in the league and there's not even really a compelling argument that he's good at basketball.

And finally, I think you need to really look at the situations the two teams were in when they offered these contracts.  The Cavs were a contending, capped out team that was basically a lock to make the Finals every year.  If they let Tristan walk, they have no means of replacing his production which, at that time, was solid.  He was a good role-player who, perhaps most importantly, was a great match-up for Golden State due to his ability to switch onto wings and guard the three point line.  Wiggins' contract was given by a team that wasn't capped out, was young and improving, and his contract is absolutely the moment in time we're going to look back on and say, "That's when the Wolves killed any chance they had of ever becoming contenders."  Contracts like that kill developing teams.  You just can't pay max money for guys who aren't even remotely stars in the NBA.  It always ends with your team on the treadmill of mediocrity.

[Jaime L]

17 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

EVEN FURTHER ADDENDUM: Rajon Rondo should honestly become a coach when he retires. It's the rare kind of NBA player-to-coach transition that makes complete sense. The dude's BBIQ and passing precision is just unparalleled. 

Agreed completely