US Politics: Sit Up Straight and Show Some Respect

[Shryke]

On 6/22/2018 at 8:52 PM, lokisnow said:

While you weren’t looking, Trump just rescinded every post-Deepwater horizon regulation, reform, restriction and law.

but as the marvelous middle will tell you, if democrats are ever back in power there is absolutely nothing that could or would be done in the future to reverse Such Trump actions. Everyone will allow every one of his actions to become permanent.

 unless we have a comprehensive and systematic program of de-Trumpification to eradicate and or reverse the day to day shit like this. From Jan 22 2020 onward, no other business than de-Trumpification, regular rules aren’t adopted by either house of congress until de-Trumpification is complete, no committees, no filibusters, no recess, 16 hour days minimum, five days a week minimum In session until we complete a marathon of congressional direct action that 100% de-trumpifys all the shit stained by his imprint. 

 But we will not, because that will be hard, and the marvelous middle and the what abouts will be happy to let Trumps shit be permanent because they’re happy to be a powerless majority just like they’re trilled to be a powerless minority. They don’t even try to win elections, you think they’re going to try to undo the fuhrers damage, they never will.

  

Or, you know, because the american people lack the political will to actually support such a policy and would scream about "partisanship" and such if any such thing was even remotely attempted.

It doesn't matter that the Republican party conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal the presidency and, for example, install an illegitimate justice on the SCOTUS. No one will impeach his ass the minute Trump is thrown out and reverse all his decisions, despite the obvious illegitimacy of it all.

Not because it's "hard" or because people are "cowards" or whatever but because the american polity will not accept that plan. There is no consensus and will be no consensus on the basic facts of the matter and what should be done. People don't care or think it's fine. There is no political will within the voting public itself to tackle the problem that is the Right and the Republican party.

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Shryke said:

Or, you know, because the american people lack the political will to actually support such a policy and would scream about "partisanship" and such if any such thing was even remotely attempted.

It doesn't matter that the Republican party conspired with a hostile foreign power to steal the presidency and, for example, install an illegitimate justice on the SCOTUS. No one will impeach his ass the minute Trump is thrown out and reverse all his decisions, despite the obvious illegitimacy of it all.

Not because it's "hard" or because people are "cowards" or whatever but because the american polity will not accept that plan. There is no consensus and will be no consensus on the basic facts of the matter and what should be done. People don't care or think it's fine. There is no political will within the voting public itself to tackle the problem that is the Right and the Republican party.

Look on the bright side.

Once you hit hopelessness (literal, not silly hyperbolic) everything gets fucking hilarious.

You don't have kids do ya? People with kids don't get it. Too close to the action, can't get any perspective.

[LongRider]

6 hours ago, Jace, The Sugarcube said:

Look on the bright side.

Once you hit hopelessness (literal, not silly hyperbolic) everything gets fucking hilarious.

You don't have kids do ya? People with kids don't get it. Too close to the action, can't get any perspective.

 

[LongRider]

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

13 hours ago, Jace, The Sugarcube said:

Teeheehee! 

Every time I hear about a closing X in bumfuckville it gives me such a RUSH. And this pending trade war? I NEEDZ IT! SHUT DOWN THEM SOYBEANS, GHINA!

And the ex said I was too much of a negative influence on his life! As if.

I love being the only liberal with the self loathing of a Republican. 

So you need a software update to be more cheery? 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Never heard of this guy before,but anyone who makes Ayn Rand look tame by comparison.

Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealth Takeover of America

Quote

Nobel laureate James Buchanan is the intellectual linchpin of the Koch-funded attack on democratic institutions, argues Duke historian Nancy MacLean .

Ask people to name the key minds that have shaped America’s burst of radical right-wing attacks on working conditions, consumer rights and public services, and they will typically mention figures like free market-champion Milton Friedman, libertarian guru Ayn Rand, and laissez-faire economists Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises.

James McGill Buchanan is a name you will rarely hear unless you’ve taken several classes in economics. And if the Tennessee-born Nobel laureate were alive today, it would suit him just fine that most well-informed journalists, liberal politicians, and even many economics students have little understanding of his work.

The reason? Duke historian Nancy MacLean contends that his philosophy is so stark that even young libertarian acolytes are only introduced to it after they have accepted the relatively sunny perspective of Ayn Rand. (Yes, you read that correctly). If Americans really knew what Buchanan thought and promoted, and how destructively his vision is manifesting under their noses, it would dawn on them how close the country is to a transformation most would not even want to imagine, much less accept.

That is a dangerous blind spot, MacLean argues in a meticulously researched book, Democracy in Chains, a finalist for the National Book Award in Nonfiction. While Americans grapple with Donald Trump’s chaotic presidency, we may be missing the key to changes that are taking place far beyond the level of mere politics. Once these changes are locked into place, there may be no going back.

 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Ancalagon El Pistolero said:

Never heard of this guy before,but anyone who makes Ayn Rand look tame by comparison.

Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealth Takeover of America

 

Yes, he was definitely a fan of the "libertarian" overlords.

Quote

Tyler Cowen has provided an economic justification for this kind of brutality, stating that where it is difficult to get clean water, private companies should take over and make people pay for it. “This includes giving them the right to cut off people who don’t—or can’t—pay their bills,” the economist explains.

Yeah, fuck Tyler Clownwen.

[The Grey Wolf]

1 hour ago, Ancalagon El Pistolero said:

Never heard of this guy before,but anyone who makes Ayn Rand look tame by comparison.

Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealth Takeover of America

 

That is some seriously scary shit.

[Rippounet]

57 minutes ago, Ancalagon El Pistolero said:

Never heard of this guy before,but anyone who makes Ayn Rand look tame by comparison.

Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealth Takeover of America

I read McLean's book thanks to @Zorral 's advice, but this article has links to two companion articles (and books) that seem at least as interesting:
- Peter Temin's The Vanishing Middle Class: Prejudice and Power in a Dual Economy.
https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/america-is-regressing-into-a-developing-nation-for-most-people
- Gordon Lafer's The One Percent Solution.
https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/the-corporate-plan-to-groom-u-s-kids-for-servitude-by-wiping-out-public-schools

The three articles and three books, taken together, present a chilling picture. Here is an extract from the third article I posted:

Quote

 

“One of the ways I think that they try to avoid a populist backlash is by lowering everybody’s expectations of what we have a right to demand as citizens,” says Lafer. “When you think about what Americans think we have a right to, just by living here, it’s really pretty little. Most people don’t think you have a right to healthcare or a house. You don’t necessarily have a right to food and water. But people think you have a right to have your kids get a decent education.”

Not for long, if Big Business has its way. In President Trump and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, they have dedicated partners in redirecting public resources to unregulated, privately owned and operated schools. Such privatization plans, many critics say, will reinforce and amplify America’s economic inequality.

U.S. public schools, which became widespread in the 1800s, were promoted with the idea that putting students from families of different income levels together—though not black Americans and other racial minorities until the 1950s—would instill a common sense of citizenship and national identity. But today, large corporations are scoring huge successes in replacing this system with a two-tiered model and a whole new notion of identity.

Lafer explains that in the new system, the children of the wealthy will be taught a broad, rich curriculum in small classes led by experienced teachers. The kind of thing everybody wants for kids. But the majority of America’s children will be consigned to a narrow curriculum delivered in large classes by inexperienced staff —or through digital platforms with no teachers at all.

Most kids will be trained for a life that is more circumscribed, less vibrant, and, quite literally, shorter, than what past generations have known. (Research shows that the lifespan gap between haves and have-nots is large and rapidly growing). They will be groomed for insecure service jobs that dull their minds and depress their spirits. In the words of Noam Chomsky, who recently spoke about education to the Institute for New Economic Thinking (INET), “students will be controlled and disciplined.” Most will go to school without developing their creativity or experiencing doing things on their own.

 

And all of this is very well documented. The attack from the 1% involves redefining national identity, destroying public services and public education especially, and -most importantly- ending democracy.
It's not that there won't be elections. They just won't matter anymore. Economic constraints will prevent any left-wing elected leader from doing anything about the dire situation in which he will find the state.

It's far from being limited to the U.S. One of the reasons the EU is so unpopular is because it constrains public spending in member states, while successive neo-liberal governments have slashed taxes and funding to public services... Thus preventing wealth redistribution and the smooth running of public services.

Of course, identity politics are part of the game: they prevent people from seeing the real picture... That even presidents as different as Trump and Macron are actually pursuing the very same policies with the same horrible consequences: killing the middle-class and democracy.

I've personally become really depressed over this. Because, as Parramore writes:

Quote

 

Unfortunately, once you’ve developed a dual economy, getting out of it isn’t pretty. Temin notes that it often happens through devastating wars. “Sometimes the kings who are all cousins turn on each other,” he says. “Other times, the leaders sleepwalk into the war as Trump could possibly do with North Korea.”

Such upheavals create instability that sometimes opens up the possibility of restructuring society for the benefit of more people. But it’s a painful, bloody process. Political mobilization can work, but it’s very hard to get various groups who are dissatisfied to join forces.

The sad truth is that the left (the "real" left) is struggling to build an electoral base that would allow it to win elections and turn things around. And angry people somehow end up voting for right-wing populitsts like Trump or Le Pen, who only worsen things (they're still on the right!).
I just don't see any hope in the near future.

 

[Frog Eater]

14 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Restaurant Owner Who Booted Sanders Has No Regrets: “I Would Have Done the Same Thing Again”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/sarah-huckabee-sanders-owner-of-red-hen-explains-why-she-asked-white-house-press-secretary-to-leave.html

a year from now, a year filled with health inspection complaints, reservation no shows, telephone harassment, online harassment, and their suppliers cutting ties due to harassment of them as well, I am willing to bet she has a different opinion. 

You dont want to get political when you are a restaurant. Health inspections are stressful enough, staying profitable is stressful enough, and the owners have now made enemies of half the country. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Rippounet said:

The sad truth is that the left (the "real" left) is struggling to build an electoral base that would allow it to win elections and turn things around. And angry people somehow end up voting for right-wing populitsts like Trump or Le Pen, who only worsen things (they're still on the right!).
I just don't see any hope in the near future.

Oh no worries. They have multi-stakeholder solutions over in Davos.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, Notone said:

So you need a software update to be more cheery? 

Huh? This one's going right over my head.

[Week]

3 hours ago, Jace, The Sugarcube said:

Huh? This one's going right over my head.

Tone-policing or at least chiding?

edit - Nevermind stupid me!

[A Horse Named Stranger]

39 minutes ago, Jace, The Sugarcube said:

Huh? This one's going right over my head.

Just a silly reference to your "the answer is obviously" thread.

I admit, my train of thought from your post to that topic was abit obscure.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Notone said:

Just a silly reference to your "the answer is obviously" thread.

I admit, my train of thought from your post to that topic was abit obscure.

AAAAHHHH!

That's funny!

Yeah, a little more clear link between the two would have gone a long way

Seriously, that's funny though.

[The Anti-Targ]

7 hours ago, LongRider said:

 

Deterrence / detention isn't a long term solution? Ask the Australian govt about Nauru and Manus Island. They certainly seem to be making a good go of turning it into a long term solution.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, Ancalagon El Pistolero said:

Never heard of this guy before,but anyone who makes Ayn Rand look tame by comparison.

Meet the Economist Behind the One Percent’s Stealth Takeover of America

 

 

4 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yes, he was definitely a fan of the "libertarian" overlords.

 

So libertarianism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy. You can't really have a libertarian utopia without autocratic or authoritarian rule. If you have to listen to the voice of the masses and are beholden to their collective expression of will through the ballot box you can never have a truly libertarian society.

[OldGimletEye]

4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 

So libertarianism is fundamentally incompatible with democracy. You can't really have a libertarian utopia without autocratic or authoritarian rule. If you have to listen to the voice of the masses and are beholden to their collective expression of will through the ballot box you can never have a truly libertarian society.

I think a truly libertarian society is an invitation to violent revolution. As such, the only way to have a truly libertarian state would be to have a highly repressive state. All this would be done of course in the name of "freedom".

Libertarianism, or maybe it should be called propertarianism as that what seems to be what the US version of libertarianism means is simply an unworkable and not very realistic philosophy.

Also for some reason here in the US one can say they are a libertarian nobody bats an eye, but it seems to me that if somebody here in the US says they are a socialist or have some socialist sympathies then people have a cow.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, Frog Eater said:

a year from now, a year filled with health inspection complaints, reservation no shows, telephone harassment, online harassment, and their suppliers cutting ties due to harassment of them as well, I am willing to bet she has a different opinion. 

You dont want to get political when you are a restaurant. Health inspections are stressful enough, staying profitable is stressful enough, and the owners have now made enemies of half the country. 

35% of the country, 45% of Virginia, (Hillary won Virginia 49/45), 31% of Lexington (where the Restaurant is). And I'm willing to guess that some of the 31% who voted for Trump are experiencing buyer's remorse.

I would think that while she'll probably get some shit on line for it, the restaurant is in a relatively safe place for her business to have a decent chance of not suffering catastrophic failure.

Probably not a good business move if you own a restaurant in Mesa Arizona, which according to one article is the most conservative city in the USA. Though if you refused service to Hillary Clinton there you would probably be feted in the local media for taking a brave political stand against corruption, elitism and the destruction of American family values.

[Rippounet]

20 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I think a truly libertarian society is an invitation to violent revolution. As such, the only way to have a truly libertarian state would be to have a highly repressive state. All this would be done of course in the name of "freedom".

Libertarianism, or maybe it should be called propertarianism as that what seems be what the US version of libertarianism means is simply an unworkable and not very realistic philosophy.

Hmmm... I've always tought that. But for some reason, tonight I'm reminded of all those science-fiction stories I've read in which corporations have acquired incredible power and government is only there to manage the police and the military. I believe Philip K. Dick among others wrote a few of those...
I think it's easier than ever to see such stories become reality. Large corporations already hold incredible power in most countries. With regulations and public services fast disappearing one can easily imagine a world in which individuals have to rely on their employer for many basic human needs (like housing, healthcare, childcare... etc) rather than the state. Such a world would essentially be "libertarian" in appearance.

As for repression... Hmm... I don't think that much repression is needed. The neo-liberal/individualistic/libertarian ideology is already quite powerful throughout the West. Just get rid of public education and make sure there is no middle-class left so that most people are too preoccupied with their economic situation to engage in any form of activism, and you're pretty much certain that dissent will be limited to a minimum. Since the media have already been bought by our corporate overlords people would find it hard to have access to the information necessary to resist ; not to mention the fact that elections wouldn't have much influence on socio-economic realities anymore.

Of course, that's only the script as they want to write it. Fortunately, a surprising number of people are aware of what is happening and attempting to resist. But it's not easy: the culture wars, identity politics, and ethno-nationalism (among others) are preventing the people from building a unified front. As it is today, I have to say it could go either way. But I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of some sort of libertarian wetdream from becoming reality within a few decades.