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Jaime L

NBA 2018: Fear the Deer

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The timing of the trade demand advantaged the Lakers and now this, if true, likely precludes a godfather offer from any of the East contenders. Probably also changes the calculus for the Pelicans. Now if you can get Ball + Ingram, I feel like you have to take it. Lakers could try to get cute as they have all the leverage but Lebron only has so many prime years left and I would not be cavalier about giving up another 1.5 years waiting for AD to free up. 

Edited by Jaime L

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15 hours ago, DMC said:

WTF?

Are you confused at the Vegas thing, or at my not getting it?

 

Former: 

Yb8PVMv-_bigger.jpg
 
 · Jan 28, 2019
 

Will the Pelicans trade Anthony Davis before the 2019 deadline?

Yes +150
No -200

Yb8PVMv-_bigger.jpg
 
 

What team will Anthony Davis team play for on Feb 8, 2019?

New Orleans -200
Toronto +500
LA Lakers +600
LA Clippers +700
Brooklyn +1000
Houston +1200
Oklahoma City +1200
Boston +1500
Any Other Team +300https://mybookie.ag/sportsbook/nba/specials/ 

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NBA Specials Betting Odds, Bet Basketball Lines | MyBookie Sportsbook

 

Latter: just don’t see it as a good fit, pieces wise. Don’t think the Raps have enough young parts to satisfy the Pels compared to, well, a lot of other teams Presumanly Siakam and JV would be the core, and I think that’s just okayish. Lowry might be moveable, but not terribly interesting to the Pels and his value right now is as low as it’s been in a long time. And then Toronto rolls with Fred/Delon at the point? And the Raps including a slew of picks would turn resigning Kawai from a ‘best case scenario’ to an existential necessity.

I think even a hampered Lakers can put together a much more attractive package. 

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2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

The timing of the trade demand advantaged the Lakers and now this, if true, likely precludes a godfather offer from any of the East contenders. Probably also changes the calculus for the Pelicans. Now if you can get Ball + Ingram, I feel like you have to take it. Lakers could try to get cute as they have all the leverage but Lebron only has so many prime years left and I would not be cavalier about giving up another 1.5 years waiting for AD to free up. 

Honestly there needs to be a way for the NBA to put an end to this. LeBron is basically Davis’ agent, and there is obvious collusion taking place. Nothing about this feels right.

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21 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Honestly there needs to be a way for the NBA to put an end to this. LeBron is basically Davis’ agent, and there is obvious collusion taking place. Nothing about this feels right.

Hard cap is the only solution.  It would effectively kill super teams.  

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18 minutes ago, briantw said:

Hard cap is the only solution.  It would effectively kill super teams.  

That wouldn’t stop what’s happening here though. LeBron effectively runs an agency and is steering players he wants towards them. I love when the players take power from the owners, but this is too much.  

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I don't think there's any way to stop it. LeBron is being blatant here, but there's no way to stop the players from privately talking to each and making decisions about who they want to play with.

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Here's the thing... How is this wrong? 

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36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That wouldn’t stop what’s happening here though. LeBron effectively runs an agency and is steering players he wants towards them. I love when the players take power from the owners, but this is too much.  

It wouldn't stop this specific instance, no, but it would make the Lakers getting three star players virtually impossible, especially since LeBron has made it clear that he is under no circumstances taking a pay cut.  To me, the goal should be to end all this teaming up bullshit in the first place, which also goes a long way toward limiting the drawing power of big markets, and a hard cap would do that.

Another option would be to eliminate max contracts, and that could be done in conjunction with a hard cap to really limit how many good players can be on one team.

At any rate, if I'm the Pelicans, I'm guessing I can get a team to give me more than the shit sandwich the Lakers could offer even with no assurances that Davis would re-sign.  Someone will take a chance on convincing him to stay, and we've even seen that work recently with Paul George.

Edited by briantw

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Hard caps just mean advertising/sponsors would be the only way to gain additional revenue, thus if anything maximizing the appeal of major markets. Especially in the NBA wherein an individual star is often more important to the team’s success than the rest combined (vs. average replacement distribution.) and therefore profile. 

It’s not something with a solution imo, but either way I’m very wary of labour solutions to owner problems. But any fix is just choosing different problems. The artificially in the market is much more that LeBron level players are capped at the current max when their value to the franchise is extraordinarily above that. The no-cap idea would mean more talent accumulation in the bigger or at least wealthier franchises a la MLB/Premier League, but it would also make salaries actually reflect known value more. 

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Not related to the current discussion, but I remember years ago on this thread that when discussing Jordan vs anyone else, inevitably Scottie Pippen comes up, who was possibly the best possible running mate for someone like Jordan.  He was versatile - an excellent defender, a willing passer, capable of scoring off the dribble, but not reliant on it.

Now, the game has changed, and Pippin's limited range (he's a career 32% 3 point shooter) would be a problem in today's NBA.  But I was thinking about who would be the ideal Robin in the current game.  And to me the obvious choice is Klay Thompson.  Strong defender, excellent range, better without the ball than off the dribble.  And it works out great, because he has two #1 players on his team:rolleyes:

Ugh, I loathe the Warriors superteam.

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12 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Hard caps just mean advertising/sponsors would be the only way to gain additional revenue, thus if anything maximizing the appeal of major markets. Especially in the NBA wherein an individual star is often more important to the team’s success than the rest combined (vs. average replacement distribution.) and therefore profile. 

That might have been true fifteen, twenty years ago, but in this day and age you can be in any city and get endorsements if you're talented and decent on camera.  LeBron never had any issues securing sponsorship deals in Cleveland.  Neither did Love or Irving, who got his own Nike shoe model while playing for the Cavs while they sucked.  This is the internet age.  You don't need to be in a big market to be a celebrity athlete.

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2 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Are you confused at the Vegas thing, or at my not getting it?

The Vegas thing.

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47 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Not related to the current discussion, but I remember years ago on this thread that when discussing Jordan vs anyone else, inevitably Scottie Pippen comes up, who was possibly the best possible running mate for someone like Jordan.  He was versatile - an excellent defender, a willing passer, capable of scoring off the dribble, but not reliant on it.

Now, the game has changed, and Pippin's limited range (he's a career 32% 3 point shooter) would be a problem in today's NBA.  But I was thinking about who would be the ideal Robin in the current game.  And to me the obvious choice is Klay Thompson.  Strong defender, excellent range, better without the ball than off the dribble.  And it works out great, because he has two #1 players on his team:rolleyes:

Ugh, I loathe the Warriors superteam.

You have to assume that yesteryear’s players would be much better three point shooters if they came up in today’s league. It’s what makes it so hard to compare teams from different eras (same goes for health, training, recovery etc.).

I mean, one year Magic won the title, he made as many threes as I have for my entire NBA career.

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

The Vegas thing.

Updated:

Updated odds for what team Anthony Davis will be on for the first game of the 2019-2020 NBA regular season (BetOnline):

Celtics +150
Raptors +300
Lakers +300
Pelicans +500
Knicks +1000
76ers +1200
Warriors +1600
Rockets +2000
Spurs +2500
Thunder +2500

 

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

That might have been true fifteen, twenty years ago, but in this day and age you can be in any city and get endorsements if you're talented and decent on camera.  LeBron never had any issues securing sponsorship deals in Cleveland.  Neither did Love or Irving, who got his own Nike shoe model while playing for the Cavs while they sucked.  This is the internet age.  You don't need to be in a big market to be a celebrity athlete.

Where is LeBron playing?

I think it’s been mitigated some, but it’s still a big factor.

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15 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Where is LeBron playing?

I think it’s been mitigated some, but it’s still a big factor.

Well yeah, it's always going to be a factor.  Most people would choose LA over Memphis, everything else being equal.  But the thing is, if you put in a hard cap, guys are going to go where they get paid the most rather than just pick a big market to team up in.  A single team won't be able to afford three star players, which means the stars will inevitably spread out.

As for LeBron, I think that was something of a unique scenario in that he's nearing the end of his playing career and thus is looking to lay the foundation for his post-NBA Hollywood career.   The two times he moved in his prime, he picked situation over location.  Granted, Miami was both, but LeBron wasn't going to go to Miami if Wade and Bosh weren't there.

Edited by briantw

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The Lakers surely will do the smart thing offer here and offer a great package for Pelicans to get Davis.

Ball, Ingram, maybe have to throw in Kuzma as well if you really have to. Now's the time.

If Boston enters the race they could do a lot. But if this stuff is true about the Lakers being favoured..

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Heard a crazy stat on the radio. In 2012, the Pelicans and Hornets (then Bobcats) had the top two picks in the draft. The Pelicans obviously drafted AD while the Hornets took Michael Kidd-Gilchrist second. Since then, the Hornets have a better overall record than the Pelicans. 

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I'd say the only way to stop this kind of thing (requesting a trade and telling others there's only one team you will sign at) is to go full Joe Smith/Timberwolves on it.  Make it so he can't sign with the Lakers and they lose first round picks et al.  Do it for that every single time.

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Glad to see Davis got fined for his agent trying to manipulate leverage in such a way.  I have no idea what specific rule (if any) that violates, but it should be illegal in some way.  Otherwise the credible commitment of contracts is inherently weakened.

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