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goldenlion

will jon become a queenslayer to protect the kingdom like jaime becoming kingslayer

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Jon and Jaime both break their vows: sometimes for the greater good (joining the Wildlings/killing Aerys), sometimes for personal feelings (love) as in Jon going after Ramsay Bolton for Arya's sake (Bookverse) and Jaime sleeping with Cersei repeatedly after he joined the KG. But there is one big difference: Jon always gets an easy out with his oathbreaking (at least until he gets shivved "for the Watch"): his friends save him from breaking his vows to join Robb; Qhorin orders him to join the Wildlings (and he HAS to sleep with Ygritte or he'll be killed and fail at his mission); Ygritte kills the old man at Queenscrown so Jon doesn't have to; someone else kills Ygritte - on and on it goes. Every time Jon has to make a genuinely morally ambiguous choice or choose the lesser of two evils, someone else does the thing for him. Even with the stabbing it's more like the close-minded members of the NW are jealous of Jon's Dragonstoneness rather than the stabbing being presented as Jon making a bad choice or at least one that can genuinely be seen as damaging to the unique mission of the Night's Watch. Whereas Jaime has no out by others for his tragic difficult choices - there's no one else to kill Aerys and save the lives of thousands so he has to break his vows and lose his reputation.

Jon gets a brother he is bound to take care of at first when he doesn't know how to defend himself - that is Sam. Jaime has a little brother whom he also protects fiercely. At the same time, both Sam and Tyrion are bookworms par excellence, who can stand their own ground and are characters in their own right. Funny enough, Tyrion is the one who gets his POVs before Jaime, whereas Jon gets them before Sam, as for the books. Both have gifted swords to women they care about deeply. Jon gave Arya Needle. Jaime gave Brienne Oathkeeper.

Both these swords in turn mean a big deal to both women - for Arya, it's the pullback and drawback to her own identity when she is on the verge of becoming truly No One (though she may still, no one can know, LOL). For Brienne, it's a legacy sword that gives her a purpose after she returned to KL only to learn about Cat's demise and having failed to protect her. The extra layer on top is of course that when she means to return it to Jaime, believing its purpose achieved via saving Sansa, he tells her "it's yours, it will always be yours" - making clear that the sword was always only ever meant for her and was not tied to just a purpose but to the bond the two share. Jaime and Jon, despite their differences, share in common values such as honor, a sense of utilitarianism - they both rather fight alone or make themselves the sacrifice instead of demanding that of entire armies, if someone only finally took the offer, a sense of duty that is continuously challenged by circumstance, both witness dissatisfaction with the vows they took for life, they care about the people they consider friends and family, etc., to name but few. There is also that moment from the books of Jaime not being able to remember his mother's face whereas Jon doesn't know his mother. So, on a more abstract level, we have this sense fo a mother figure being absent or not there for long that deeply affects them to this day.

while it is not necessarily a parallel, it is also interesting to note that Jon, despite being considered a bastard, he is still treated by his father figure PA INGALLS like a son, he gets the same teaching as Robb etc. and PA INGALLS, for all the shit of a guy he may have been in many other aspects, he was undoubtedly a rather supportive, strict, but also educating father (at least wrt what he thought was important... including but not limited to chopping poor lads' heads off because the rules command it yo). Tywin, by contrast, is portrayed as not caring about Jaime as a person, really, but only in his ability to contribute to his empire meant to last a thousand years. There is no love or affection there, there is just the expectations that Jaime disappoints qua KG vow, mingled with the hope that he will take up on the duty again. Still, against all odds, they end up with similar mindsets when it comes to the qualities I tried to list previously. That may also be a bit of a hint how not all is nature or nurture, because here, nurture brought about two men who certainly take different approaches at large, but who share in some common key values that mark someone like Jon as a hero. Jaime has the same nature, however, at least to a certain extent.

Another thing that marks more of a difference but that I still find interesting is that Jon is portrayed as getting those different kinds of mentor figures (Maester Aemon, Jeor Mormont, Mance, etc.). With Jaime, we don't really get that notion. Obviously due to age differences, but if we trace back to Jaime's mentors by the time he was Jon's age... let's be real, they were shitty. The other KG guys were busy with Rhaegar's plan and told Jaime how his instincts were all wrong when he was like "we should prevent the king from raping his wife!" etc. Arthur Dayne is the guy he idealizes, still, but even that guy was perhaps not as great (as he seemed to be. So I also get this sense of Jon being very fortunate in the mentors that are sent his way, in a way that Jaime never had the luxury, really. I mean, Jaime now has a sounding ground with Bronn, Voice of Reason, but that is on a different level, which is more apt for someone Jaime's age, but nonetheless, I find that rather interesting in itself, which may also partly explain how Jaime got some different ideas from Jon, who's only had those oh so honorable men educate him.

Both of them have had a hand incident...Jon's hand got burned and Jaime's hand was cut off. - Both will use Valyrian swords that actually belonged to someone else...Jorah's father gave Jon the sword which was supposed to be Jorah's, and Jaime got  a  sword from his father made from ned starks blade. - Jon sends Mance on a mission to rescue Arya, while Jaime sends Brienne to search for Sansa. - Both were despised/disliked by Catelyn Stark. - They have similar dreams:

Jon: "...That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It’s black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don’t want to. I’m afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it’s not them I’m afraid of."

Jaime: "...Why am I going down? Below the earth his doom awaited, he knew with the certainty of dream; something dark and terrible lurked there, something that wanted him. Jaime tried to halt, but their spears prodded him on....Jaime pleaded. “Don’t leave me here alone.” But they were leaving. “ Don’t leave me in the dark!”. Something terrible lived down here."

They both break oaths for love, but they also break their vows by doing the exact opposite of their intended duty for the greater good. Jaime kills Aerys to save KL and Jon lets the wildlings past the wall, violating his obligation to protect the realms of men. In the books, when we last left Jaime and Jon, Jon was about to go on a mission to rescue a "fake" Arya and he was then killed. Jaime was about to go on a mission to rescue a "fake" Sansa, and is now missing and likely presumed DISCO. In the books, I assume as a result of their presumed deadness, they will be released from their vows.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/jaime_x_brienne/jaime-and-jon-parallels-t621.html

Another parallel between Jon and Jaime is that neither of them is interested in power, but somehow ends up in positions where they have to exercise power and make big decisions

 

jon snow and Jaime Lannister of the Kingsguard. : Both are Lord Commanders of brotherhoods (while the kingsguard wear white, the nights watch wears black) , which they joined at a young age for the sake of honour and duty as the Wide-Eyed Idealist, and both came from highborn upbringings. During their respective journeys, they are left disappointed and while jaime joined the kingsguard when they they were still noble and well-respected. Jaime joined one of the best Kingsguard squads though Jaime grew disillusioned with the Kingsguard quickly when he realized that his fellow Kingsguard expected him to turn his back and ignore everything that Aerys did. both realized the groups werent as great as they thought they were

http://ashotofjac.tumblr.com/post/169937547318

LOOK LIKE THEIR SISTERS

Jon had their father’s face, as she did. They were the only ones. (Arya, A Game of Thrones)


“I never understood what Jaime saw in you, [Cersei,] apart from his own reflection.“(Tyrion, A Clash of Kings)

HOUSE LOOK

Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. (Catelyn, A Game of Thrones)


Ser Jaime Lannister was twin to Queen Cersei; tall and golden, with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. […] On the breast of his tunic, the lion of his House was embroidered in gold thread, roaring its defiance. (Jon, A Game of Thrones)

PERMANENT DISABILITY OF HAND

He had burned himself more badly than he knew throwing the flaming drapes, and his right hand was swathed in silk halfway to the elbow. At the time he’d felt nothing; the agony had come after. His cracked red skin oozed fluid, and fearsome blood blisters rose between his fingers, big as roaches. (Jon, A Game of Thrones)


The days and the nights blurred together in a haze of pain. He would sleep in the saddle, pressed against Brienne, his nose full of the stink of his rotting hand, and then at night he would lie awake on the hard ground, caught in a waking nightmare. (Jaime, A Storm of Swords)  

ROMANTIC TONES/UNDERTONES WITH SISTER

[Arya] realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night’s Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy… (GRRM, The Letter)


I prefer you dappled in sunlight, with water beading on your naked skin. He wanted to kiss her, carry her to her bedchamber, throw her on the bed… (Jaime, A Feast for Crows)

CELIBATE SOCIETIES

“If we beheaded every boy who rode to Mole’s Town in the night, only ghosts would guard the Wall…” (Jon, A Game of Thrones)


"Perhaps a little. Do you think you are the only Kingsguard who ever loved a woman?”

“There have always been men who found it easier to speak vows than to keep them,” he admitted. (The Soiled Knight, A Feast for Crows)

SHARP TONGUES

“I’ll take that wager, Ser Alliser,” Jon said. “I’d love to see Ghost juggle.”

Jon heard Grenn suck in his breath, shocked. Silence fell. (Jon, A Game of Thrones)


“I am not Cersei. I have a beard, and she has breasts. If you are still confused, nuncle, count our hands. Cersei has two.”

“Both of you have a taste for mockery,” his uncle said. “Spare me your japes, ser, I have no taste for them.” (Jaime, A Feast for Crows)

DOUBT TYRION’S CRIMES

Jon had known Tyrion Lannister, briefly. He took my hand and named me friend. It was hard to believe the little man had it in him to murder his own sire… (Jon, A Dance with Dragons)


He would see Cersei soon, and Tyrion, and their father. Could my brother truly have killed the boy? Jaime found that hard to believe. (Jaime, A Storm of Swords)

COMPARE LOVE INTERESTS TO SISTERS

She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore. (Jon, A Storm of Swords)


Jaime caught a glimpse of the thick blonde bush at the juncture of her thighs as she climbed out. She was much hairier than his sister. Absurdly, he felt his cock stir beneath the bathwater. (Jaime, A Storm of Swords)

KING FORESHADOWING/SYMBOLISM

He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont’s raven muttered across the room. “Corn,” the bird said, and, “King,” and, “Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.” That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall. (Jon, A Dance with Dragons)


Jon found it hard to look away from [Jaime Lannister]. This is what a king should look like, he thought to himself as the man passed. (Jon, A Game of Thrones)

LEADER OF ORGANIZATION

Boy was not the worst of the things that Jon Snow had been called since being chosen lord commander. (Jon, A Dance with Dragons)


He was a Lannister of Casterly Rock, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard; no sellsword would make him scream. (Jaime, A Storm of Swords)

BREAK SACRED VOWS FOR THEIR SISTERS

“The Night’s Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …” Jon paused. (Jon, A Dance with Dragons)


[Jaime’s] smile cut. “I’ve never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I have been truer than your Ned ever was. Poor old dead Ned. So who has shit for honor now, I ask you?” (Catelyn, A Clash of Kings)

CLOSE WITH BROTHER(S)

He missed his true brothers: little Rickon, bright eyes shining as he begged for a sweet; Robb, his rival and best friend and constant companion; Bran, stubborn and curious… (Jon, A Game of Thrones)


During all the terrible long years of his childhood, only Jaime had ever shown him the smallest measure of affection or respect, and for that Tyrion was willing to forgive him most anything. (Tyrion, A Game of Thrones)

MOCKING NICKNAMES

"That is a longsword, not an old man’s cane,” Ser Alliser said sharply. “Are your legs hurting, Lord Snow?”

Jon hated that name, a mockery that Ser Alliser had hung on him the first day he came to practice. The boys had picked it up, and now he heard it everywhere. (Jon, A Game of Thrones)


They called him the Lion of Lannister to his face and whispered “Kingslayer” behind his back. (Jon, A Game of Thrones)

MOTHERS DIED IN CHILDBIRTH

“I was with her when she died,” Ned reminded the king. “She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father.” He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. (Eddard, A Game of Thrones)


But he was gone now, lost beyond the seas, and Tyrion himself had put Lady Joanna in her grave. (Tyrion, A Storm of Swords)

MOTHERS LUSTED AFTER BY TARGARYEN 

Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap. (Eddard, A Game of Thrones)


It has been reliably reported, however, that King Aerys took unwonted liberties with Lady Joanna’s person during her bedding ceremony, to Tywin’s displeasure. (The World of Ice and Fire)  

 

In the books Jon Snow already started to understand that his honor is not more important than saving the lives of his people.

'

Val is no princess, though. I told him that half a hundred times. It was a feeble sort of evasion, a sad rag wrapped around his wounded word. His father would never have approved. I am the sword that guards the realm of men, Jon reminded himself, and in the end, that must be worth more than one man's honor.

ADWD- Jon

and jaime did exactly that forsake his honor to protect people by disobeying aerys and killing the pyromancer and aerys to keep the order from being given.  (despite the seeming insistence that jaime didnt kill aerys for any noble goal or trying to portray him as a narcissist or claiming that he did some sort of crime by not telling people about the wildfire that they  would have believed him  or trying to go but there is wildfire under the great sept is proof  when its not etc. )

given that daenerys is going in a very fire and blood mood in the end of ADWD its likely jon will have to protect people from her and betray her ( I think jon will be the mount she rides for love and the betrayal for love

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness …

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

'

I think I can say that pretty much everybody believes that this line, a blue flower in a wall of Ice refers to Jon Snow. We also always believed to be a foreshadowing of the blooming romance between Jon Snow and Daenerys because in the line, the flower fills the air with sweetens and we always assume sweetness with good things, yet, in most of Daenerys chapters in the book, sweetness represents something bad or negative. This happens especially on Daenerys chapters.

'

Dany smiled. “Perhaps it’s the camels you’re smelling. The Qartheen themselves seem sweet enough to my nose.” “Sweet smells are sometimes used to cover foul ones."

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys II

'

He never left his bed, though, and the smell of sickness clung to him day and night, a hot, moist, sickly sweet odor. - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I

'

Ser Jorah lifted a cup and sniffed at the wine, frowning. "Sweet, isn’t it?” the wineseller said, smiling. “Can you smell the fruit, ser? The perfume of the Arbor. Taste it, my lord, and tell me it isn’t the finest, richest wine that’s ever touched your tongue."

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI

'

A foul, sweet smell rose from the wound, so thick it almost choked her. -

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VIII

'

"Locusts!” as he seized the bowl and began to crunch them by the handful. “Those are very tasty,” advised Hizdahr. “You ought to try a few yourself, my love. They are rolled in spice before the honey, so they are sweet and hot at once.”

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IX

'

As you can see in those paragraphs, the word sweet is usually used in a negative way on Daenerys chapters of the book. Its almost like the author is playing with us, trying to point out that sweet may not represent a good thing. We all believed the first time we read that line that Jon and Dany would fall in love and be the final couple of the story, we all tought that, do you know why? because its fucking OBVIOUS, in fact, its too obvious. And George RRM doesn’t do the obvious, he prefers to surprise the audience. But if he uses the line to foreshadow a future betrayal than it would be more in line with his work.

 

so its likely jon will forsake his honor and be a queenslayer despite swearing oaths to daenerys. and jon will understand jaime

 

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Jon died in the last book and should stay dead.  He's not going to come back.  George Martin said on numerous interviews that Gandalf should have stayed dead.  I don't think will come back to life.  And even if he did, he will be the one who is a threat to the kingdom.  All the crimes he committed at the Wall to get Arya will be the big event that the White Walkers are waiting for.  It's the opening they needed.  An unsteady Lord Commander Jon Snow who betrayed the Night's Watch and whose actions weakened the defenses of the Wall.  Jon will be a hero to the White Walkers.  He is the hero who will save Westeros but he is the hero who unintentionally opened the gates for the Others to come in.

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No. Jon will execute Dany in complete opposite fashion. Dany will be trying to sacrifice their child to save the realm, Jon will execute her for that attempt, even if it means the realm is lost.

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14 hours ago, Josette DuPres said:

Jon died in the last book and should stay dead.  He's not going to come back.  George Martin said on numerous interviews that Gandalf should have stayed dead.  I don't think will come back to life.  And even if he did, he will be the one who is a threat to the kingdom.  All the crimes he committed at the Wall to get Arya will be the big event that the White Walkers are waiting for.  It's the opening they needed.  An unsteady Lord Commander Jon Snow who betrayed the Night's Watch and whose actions weakened the defenses of the Wall.  Jon will be a hero to the White Walkers.  He is the hero who will save Westeros but he is the hero who unintentionally opened the gates for the Others to come in.

how did his actions weaken the defenses of the wall

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15 hours ago, Josette DuPres said:

Jon died in the last book and should stay dead.  He's not going to come back.  George Martin said on numerous interviews that Gandalf should have stayed dead.  I don't think will come back to life.  And even if he did, he will be the one who is a threat to the kingdom.  All the crimes he committed at the Wall to get Arya will be the big event that the White Walkers are waiting for.  It's the opening they needed.  An unsteady Lord Commander Jon Snow who betrayed the Night's Watch and whose actions weakened the defenses of the Wall.  Jon will be a hero to the White Walkers.  He is the hero who will save Westeros but he is the hero who unintentionally opened the gates for the Others to come in.

GRRM didn’t really say Gandalf should have stayed dead. GRRM said it would have been very interesting and shocking if he had stayed dead because of how impactful Gandalf was in the story, but mostly GRRM didn’t like the matter in which Gandalf came, how Gandalf came back unaffected and far stronger than he was before with his death not really impacting him at all. Also Jon isn’t dead, he’s warged into Ghost and the Wall is a lot stronger than it has ever been with the Wildlings manning the Castles and repairs.

Edited by Starkz

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1 hour ago, Starkz said:

GRRM didn’t really say Gandalf should have stayed dead. GRRM said it would have been very interesting and shocking if he had stayed dead because of how impactful Gandalf was in the story, but mostly GRRM didn’t like the matter in which Gandalf came, how Gandalf came back unaffected and far stronger than he was before with his death not really impacting him at all. Also Jon isn’t dead, he’s warged into Ghost and the Wall is a lot stronger than it has ever been with the Wildlings manning the Castles and repairs.

He did literally say "Gandalf should have stayed dead" and then confirmed that again some time later too.
http://www.westeros.org/citadel/ssm/entry/1432
https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91All/P495

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15 minutes ago, wia said:

He did literally say "Gandalf should have stayed dead" and then confirmed that again some time later too.
http://www.westeros.org/citadel/ssm/entry/1432
https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91All/P495

GRRM said that because of the manner in which Gandalf came back as Gandalf the White stronger and more powerful than ever. 

 

Martin added: “And then in the next book, he shows up again, and it was six months between the American publications of those books, which seemed like a million years to me. So all that time I thought Gandalf was dead, and now he’s back and now he’s Gandalf the White. And, ehh, he’s more or less the same as always, except he’s more powerful. It always felt a little bit like a cheat to me. And as I got older and considered it more, it also seemed to me that death doesn’t make you more powerful.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/george-rr-martin-coming-back-dead-should-change-characters/

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16 minutes ago, Starkz said:

GRRM said that because of the manner in which Gandalf came back as Gandalf the White stronger and more powerful than ever. 

 

Martin added: “And then in the next book, he shows up again, and it was six months between the American publications of those books, which seemed like a million years to me. So all that time I thought Gandalf was dead, and now he’s back and now he’s Gandalf the White. And, ehh, he’s more or less the same as always, except he’s more powerful. It always felt a little bit like a cheat to me. And as I got older and considered it more, it also seemed to me that death doesn’t make you more powerful.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/george-rr-martin-coming-back-dead-should-change-characters/

I wasn't arguing with your other points.

You said "GRRM didn’t really say Gandalf should have stayed dead". And I pointed out that he, infact, is quoted saying exactly that at least twice.

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Aside from the arguing whether Jon should stay dead or not, I have often wondered about Jon and Jaime as parallels of one another.  I was about to say that I didn't think that Jon would be a Queenslayer in the same sense as Jaime, but upon thinking even further about it, I think I have persuaded myself otherwise.

Jaime betrayed Aerys, primarily, for the sake of his father and King's Landing.  When he realized that Aerys intended to blow everyone to bits, from the common folk to his father to himself and the Jaime, that is when Jaime killed Aerys. As much as I personally do not want it to be true, I can see Danaerys being Nissa Nissa reborn, and I could see Jon/AA killing her for the love of the realm in the fight against the Others.  Furthermore, this would fit in with Dany's treason for love. If we wanted to nitpick, we could say that a difference would be that Jon may actually love Dany and not want to kill her, only to realize that his duty is that he must.  Jaime would have been an inverse of that (which is something that GRRM loves to do!) in that he probably wanted to kill Aerys, realize that his duty was that he must not, but do it anyway to save people.  Slight difference...

I have long thought that a good end to the redemption arc would be for Jaime to join/be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.  Trading a white cloak for a black cloak, yet somehow becoming more honorable for it...it seems fitting.  It would also mean that for there to still be a Night's Watch, the story would have to end with something other than "Jon and Dany and company killed the Others and everyone lived happily ever after. The end."

I am sorry to send your thread into a tangent, but the more I think about what you have posted here, the more it seems that if you follow the parallels of Jaime and Jon to their logical conclusions (provided that Jon is not dead, yada yada), a lot of other plot points seem to fall in line. Like a piece of a puzzle that once it clicks in, everything else starts to come into focus.

 

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I agree, there are a lot of parallels between the two - like distorted mirror images. 

I think your theory of King / Queenslaying is slightly off. I think the more apt parallel will be Jaime killing Cersei and Jon killing Dany ... (maybe?). I mean, we're all speculating til we see how the arcs play out, but I think they will both have to sacrifice someone they love for a greater good. Yeah, Jaime is breaking from Cersei, but that doesn't mean he turns off his feelings like a switch. He seems more hurt and regretful than bitter towards her and she was/is a big part of his existence. Jon sacrificing Dany is a huge leap in speculation for a relationship that doesn't exist yet, but if he is Azor Ahai, there needs to be a Nissa Nissa.

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22 hours ago, Lion of the West said:

I really hope that Jon is dead but if he isn't then I really hope that Danaerys or King Tommen's men will do him in.

He should be dead.  Those wounds he took would have killed a man many times over.  Per Bran's dream of his corpse growing cold, yeah, I'd say he's dead.  

On 11/29/2018 at 7:35 PM, Josette DuPres said:

Jon died in the last book and should stay dead.  He's not going to come back.  George Martin said on numerous interviews that Gandalf should have stayed dead.  I don't think will come back to life.  And even if he did, he will be the one who is a threat to the kingdom.  All the crimes he committed at the Wall to get Arya will be the big event that the White Walkers are waiting for.  It's the opening they needed.  An unsteady Lord Commander Jon Snow who betrayed the Night's Watch and whose actions weakened the defenses of the Wall.  Jon will be a hero to the White Walkers.  He is the hero who will save Westeros but he is the hero who unintentionally opened the gates for the Others to come in.

Jon will get barbecued along with the armies of ice if he ever comes back.  The Starks were a significant part of the Usurper's armies and those men will become wights.  Daenerys and Drogon will barbecue them at the Trident.  If Jon comes back, he comes back as a wight.  

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I'm still sticking to my crazy theory that Jon Snow will not sleep with, marry or kill any woman he is closely related to(first cousin or closer), knowingly or not.

Edited by Ralphis Baratheon

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On 11/29/2018 at 2:58 PM, goldenlion said:
so its likely jon will forsake his honor and be a queenslayer despite swearing oaths to daenerys. and jon will understand jaime

First of all, Jaime is a Kingslayer and so for the parallels to work,  Jon will be one. It could be Stannis but most likely it will be Mance, out of mercy.

Edited by Dorian Martell's son

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