The Walking Dead: The Judith and Negan Show (Comic Spoilers)

[HokieStone]

19 hours ago, DMC said:

Don't have much to say about tonight's episode except - was I seeing things because I was too distracted, or was there another child sleeping in a room right before Michonne scolds Judith about talking to Negan?  And I'm not on crack, who the fuck is that child supposed to be?

I think it's her kid with Rick - I think she called him "RJ" in the opener, which is presumably for Rick Junior. 

As for the Whisperers, yeah, I'm having trouble buying their schtick.  I mean, why aren't most of them taking a look at Hilltop and saying "wait...people live behind walls...in houses, growing crops...why are we wearing dead peoples skins and digging in the ground for worms again?"

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, HokieStone said:

I think it's her kid with Rick - I think she called him "RJ" in the opener, which is presumably for Rick Junior. 

I either totally missed or totally forgot that they had a kid.  Musta been drunk or barely paying attention during that episode, probably both.  Thanks.

[HokieStone]

17 minutes ago, DMC said:

I either totally missed or totally forgot that they had a kid.  Musta been drunk or barely paying attention during that episode, probably both.  Thanks.

In that first episode, I think he was onscreen for about 3 seconds.

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, HokieStone said:

In that first episode, I think he was onscreen for about 3 seconds.

Heh, in that case I mighta just skipped over it fast forwarding through commercials cuz my DVR sucks.  And by sucks I mean REALLY PISSES ME OFF FUCK YOU COMCAST!

[dbunting]

This discussion is my whole reason for wishing they had let the Whisperers secret linger a few more episodes. Now that they are exposed all we get to do is call the regular characters idiots for the things they will be doing soon, cuz, we all know they will be making some dumb ass decisions that leads to deaths. Like idk having a fair out on the open when they know there is a new threat????? I mean, they have to have some bullets hanging around, arm everyone and if they come across any herds start blasting with some crappy mullet boy bullets, then pick off the runners with the real bullets.

[DMC]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Like idk having a fair out on the open when they know there is a new threat????? I mean, they have to have some bullets hanging around, arm everyone and if they come across any herds start blasting with some crappy mullet boy bullets, then pick off the runners with the real bullets.

Yeah they definitely fucked it all up.  Alpha can't infiltrate the fair like she did in the comics.  Don't see how they have someone else do it.  Maybe she makes Lydia or something?  I dunno, that seems outlandish. 

I do expect the end of this season will be what happens after the fair though.  Bullets don't really matter at this juncture.  They've shown Eugene can do it.  If need be, he can do it again -- at least that'd be my thought process if I was in the writer's room.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Yeah they definitely fucked it all up.  Alpha can't infiltrate the fair like she did in the comics.  Don't see how they have someone else do it.  Maybe she makes Lydia or something?  I dunno, that seems outlandish. 

I do expect the end of this season will be what happens after the fair though.  Bullets don't really matter at this juncture.  They've shown Eugene can do it.  If need be, he can do it again -- at least that'd be my thought process if I was in the writer's room.

Yep, in the world they live in Eugene should be totally focused on bullets, or someone should be.

I didn't read the books so I don't know exact details other than what I've read here and on wiki, but from what I did read it seems like the show put the reveal in the wrong spot.  

Off topic but any chance Michonne dies this season(or goes the helicopter route)? She seems to not fit in anymore and I think she is getting more movie roles now. 

[DMC]

38 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Off topic but any chance Michonne dies this season(or goes the helicopter route)? She seems to not fit in anymore and I think she is getting more movie roles now. 

Well I kind of figured the way she'd leave is to finally go off and try to find Rick now that Judith is "ready," which would be a plausible explanation.  But that's before I knew or remembered Rick Jr.  So, yeah, maybe she dies.  I agree her character isn't very interesting anymore, which is a shame.  Especially compared to the comics - which aren't that great or much better in general - but comic Michonne is much more interesting.  Whatever, Gurira is moving on to bigger and better things, good for her.

[SpaceChampion]

I stopped reading the comics before this point -- but it sounds like Beta is supposed to stick around for a while as a long term antagonist for Daryl.  Who does he primarily go against, since Daryl isn't in the comics?

[dbunting]

Kind of a toss away episode to me. There was no doubt that Beta was alive even before they showed him. Now all that happened is that the Whisperers know who she is with and a war can happen.

I'm ready for Michonne, the King and Darryl to all get killed off. Carol is a better leader and the King just holds her back. Time to cull the herd again. The show could even use Michonnes death as a spur to move Negan into a primary role again.

[HokieStone]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Kind of a toss away episode to me. There was no doubt that Beta was alive even before they showed him. Now all that happened is that the Whisperers know who she is with and a war can happen.

I'm ready for Michonne, the King and Darryl to all get killed off. Carol is a better leader and the King just holds her back. Time to cull the herd again. The show could even use Michonnes death as a spur to move Negan into a primary role again.

I've not read the comics...but I'm guessing the "The Fair" ends up being a bloodbath, and we lost a couple of main characters. Maybe the King, but I doubt we'll see Michonne or Darryl die.  The news about Danai Guerrera leaving the show only came out recently, after they were done filming.  Although I suppose she could have told the showrunners prior to that.  I expect we'll see some more minor characters die though.  Maybe Gabriel and Rosita (if only to spare us from yet another newborn/mother story).  Might lose one or two of the newcomers.  But yeah...there has to be some major culling over the coming weeks...they've got a lot of characters to keep track of right now.

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, HokieStone said:

I've not read the comics...but I'm guessing the "The Fair" ends up being a bloodbath, and we lost a couple of main characters. Maybe the King, but I doubt we'll see Michonne or Darryl die.  The news about Danai Guerrera leaving the show only came out recently, after they were done filming.  Although I suppose she could have told the showrunners prior to that.  I expect we'll see some more minor characters die though.  Maybe Gabriel and Rosita (if only to spare us from yet another newborn/mother story).  Might lose one or two of the newcomers.  But yeah...there has to be some major culling over the coming weeks...they've got a lot of characters to keep track of right now.

I haven't read them either, just came here because I didn't care about getting spoiled last year. I am not saying we will see any of the ones I named die, just that I am ready for them to go. I don't think I had heard Danai was leaving until now. Not a surprise since her movies career seems to be taking off. 

[SpaceChampion]

Michonne suppose to be in be in the Rick Grimes spin-off movies, isn't she?  She's not dying.

[DMC]

On 3/11/2019 at 11:35 AM, SpaceChampion said:

I stopped reading the comics before this point -- but it sounds like Beta is supposed to stick around for a while as a long term antagonist for Daryl.  Who does he primarily go against, since Daryl isn't in the comics?

Not really anyone specific.  He fights Negan and Dwight (and really a whole group of them) and is eventually killed by Jesus and Aaron.  Obviously half those options are unavailable in the show.

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

Michonne suppose to be in be in the Rick Grimes spin-off movies, isn't she?  She's not dying.

Agreed.  I don't think they'll kill off Michonne at all so they can save her for those.  But if they do, I still don't think it will be at the fair.

Anyway, yeah that was a total throwaway episode, nothing to see there.

[DMC]

I just gotta say, dude, fuck that last episode.  Using Michonne killing kids?  Seriously?  That's, like, the dumb idea everybody needs to shoot down.  Super serial, it just pisses me off that the "big payoff" is Michonne being forced to cut up a bunch of children.  Nothing good comes of that, unless you're Tweek and that newscaster ("it is easy").

 

[YoungGriff89]

23 hours ago, DMC said:

I just gotta say, dude, fuck that last episode.  Using Michonne killing kids?  Seriously?  That's, like, the dumb idea everybody needs to shoot down.  Super serial, it just pisses me off that the "big payoff" is Michonne being forced to cut up a bunch of children.  Nothing good comes of that, unless you're Tweek and that newscaster ("it is easy").

 

The writers certainly seemed more concerned with being shocking than anything else.  When I first saw the episode I felt for Michonne because Danai Gurira is just that good in the role, but thinking about the whole thing further this is just Carl’s death 2.0.  Carl’s death bugged me not because I cared about the character (I didn’t), but because it had nothing to do with the larger storyline and could have happened literally at any other point in the show and not been out of place.  

If Rick’s decision to fight Negan instead of just serve him would have been directly the cause of Carl’s death now we have drama, now we’re getting something that can influence future storylines.  If Daryl releasing the saviors directly led to Carl getting bit then now we have some uncomfortable conflict that can fuel future storylines.  None of that.  He goes off completely on his own and gets bit, Hell he was trying to save Siddiq and you can’t even argue that Siddiq had anything to do with it.  Carl getting bit was 100% Carl’s fault because he didn’t have to go out and put himself into that position.  He’s just dead and the only thing it does for the story moving forward is remove Carl, that’s it.  

I compare what happened to Michonne and Daryl in this episode to Carl’s death because now the whole introduction of the X scars becomes nothing more than just a setup for a filler episode.  You could argue that it does serve to explain why Michonne doesn’t trust outsiders, as if at any point in this show it wasn’t clear you shouldn’t trust everybody, but it doesn’t really justify her cutting off the other communities that she’s known for years.  I think that’s really a much bigger and much more important question.  I thought the writing of the show was starting to get better, but I spoke too soon.  

[Ran]

On 3/19/2019 at 7:43 AM, DMC said:

I just gotta say, dude, fuck that last episode.  Using Michonne killing kids?  Seriously?  That's, like, the dumb idea everybody needs to shoot down.  Super serial, it just pisses me off that the "big payoff" is Michonne being forced to cut up a bunch of children.  Nothing good comes of that, unless you're Tweek and that newscaster ("it is easy").

 

I don't watch the show but heard about this... And I wonder if anyone has brought up that Garth Ennis did this story in, I think, the third issue of his initial Crossed series?

[DMC]

6 hours ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I compare what happened to Michonne and Daryl in this episode to Carl’s death because now the whole introduction of the X scars becomes nothing more than just a setup for a filler episode.  You could argue that it does serve to explain why Michonne doesn’t trust outsiders, as if at any point in this show it wasn’t clear you shouldn’t trust everybody, but it doesn’t really justify her cutting off the other communities that she’s known for years.  I think that’s really a much bigger and much more important question.  I thought the writing of the show was starting to get better, but I spoke too soon.  

Right.  To be clear, I'm not uniformly against (fictionally using!) child killing.  The "look at the flowers, Lizzie" episode from a few years back is one of the best episodes of the series (and definitely one of the best after Darabont's Season 1).  That's because Lizzie's actions were set up over the course of many episodes, and Carol's decision informed her character.

In contrast, this just smacked of "well, we need to have a reason why Michonne's perspective essentially became the opposite of not only Carl's vision, but Rick's (at least at the point of his 'death'/disappearance).  So what's the most shocking way we can do so?"  And there's something about that answer being "she's gotta kill a bunch of kids!" that comes off as so cravenly cynical it's almost intellectually offensive.

1 hour ago, Ran said:

And I wonder if anyone has brought up that Garth Ennis did this story in, I think, the third issue of his initial Crossed series?

Wasn't aware of that.  Looked it up and, yeah, I guess it could be an homage.  Except Michonne only decides to kill them at the last possible moment when it's both self-defense and necessary to save Judith (her daughter, who one kid is on her way to kill).

[Isis]

Yeahhhhh. That was quite 'shocking', wasn't it?

I must be a bit thick because I didn't quite catch where Tara from True Blood came from/her connection to Michonne. 

The interaction between Judith and Michonne was well done in terms of performance, I thought. 

After all that happened I was thinking there had better not be a sad ending to the episode.. And there wasn't really. Just some silly pantomime stuff from a coupla Z list Whisperers.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Isis said:

I must be a bit thick because I didn't quite catch where Tara from True Blood came from/her connection to Michonne. 

You didn't miss anything, in their conversation in the kitchen there was a brief allusion that they seemed to be friends in college.  And that was just about it.  Also, did forget to mention I loved seeing Tara from True Blood again.  That woulda been a great cast addition.

4 minutes ago, Isis said:

The interaction between Judith and Michonne was well done in terms of performance, I thought.

Yes, I continue to be surprised how much I like the new Judith character.  That kid is a very impressive actor.