NFL Offseason 2019: Gettleman Browns all over the Giants

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’d ask for a first, second and third in the next two drafts, or in the 2020 and 2021 drafts.

Yeah I agree with @Maithanet that they'd never get this type of return.  He's simply much (much) more valuable an asset as a Seahawk than them trying to trade him.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah I agree with @Maithanet that they'd never get this type of return.  He's simply much (much) more valuable an asset as a Seahawk than them trying to trade him.

I think they could get equivalent value to that for Wilson. It may have to be stretch out over a longer period and include a mix of other picks, but it’s still worth considering. The Seahawks aren’t going anywhere, so why not get max value through a trade and rebuild? And they could use the picks they amassed to trade for Tua or Trevor in the next year or two.

[Maithanet]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think they could get equivalent value to that for Wilson. It may have to be stretch out over a longer period and include a mix of other picks, but it’s still worth considering. The Seahawks aren’t going anywhere, so why not get max value through a trade and rebuild? And they could use the picks they amassed to trade for Tua or Trevor in the next year or two.

Wilson could be good for the next ten years.  How can you possibly conclude the Seahawks aren't going anywhere in that time? 

[DMC]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think they could get equivalent value to that for Wilson. It may have to be stretch out over a longer period and include a mix of other picks, but it’s still worth considering. 

First, no, they couldn't get equivalent value, that's the point.  Why would another team, before the extension, trade for some guy they have to pay exorbitantly after giving up a shitload of draft picks?  That's, like, Ditka-level stupid.  Second, the Seahawks are never going to be in rebuilding mode as long as Carroll is at the helm.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

46 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Wilson could be good for the next ten years.  How can you possibly conclude the Seahawks aren't going anywhere in that time? 

I doubt it. He relies too much on his scrambling ability, and that will only diminish with time. I think he’ll be great for another three or four years followed by a rapid decline. The Seahawks don’t appear to be close, so why not shop him and see if you get a good enough offer?

48 minutes ago, DMC said:

First, no, they couldn't get equivalent value, that's the point.  Why would another team, before the extension, trade for some guy they have to pay exorbitantly after giving up a shitload of draft picks?  That's, like, Ditka-level stupid.  Second, the Seahawks are never going to be in rebuilding mode as long as Carroll is at the helm.

What makes you say that? Just look at the hauls teams have gotten for the rights to the first or second pick, and Wilson is worth a lot more than that. All you need is a team that thinks they’re a QB away from winning a championship. That’s why the Vikings overpaid for Cousins, after all.  

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

and Wilson is worth a lot more than that.

Not really.  At least not that much.  The value in getting a top QB in the draft is you think he'll be cost-controlled for the first few years.  Wilson is the farthest thing from cost controlled.  And while he's literally been almost perfectly durable throughout his career, he's 30 instead of shaping a draftee QB and imagining him at the helm for the next decade.  And the Vikings overpaid for Cousins because they're stupid.

[briantw]

Wilson relies on his scrambling because Seattle's offensive line is dog shit.  He's an awesome passer too, but for whatever reason the Seahawks want to be a running team.  

I just don't see how you let one of the five best QBs in the league go.  If you've got a franchise QB, you need to hold on to him.

[Bronn Stone]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

I just don't see how you let one of the five best QBs in the league go.  If you've got a franchise QB, you need to hold on to him.

Agreed when said QB is 30.  Would possibly disagree with a crap team who had a top QB who is also 35.

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Agreed when said QB is 30.  Would possibly disagree with a crap team who had a top QB who is also 35.

Reasonable.

[Jace, Extat]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’d ask for a first, second and third in the next two drafts, or in the 2020 and 2021 drafts. Wilson is in the top 5 conversation, but I don’t see him as a tier one QB. That’s an awful lot of money to pay a QB when your roster is otherwise subpar.

Stop talking, you're making a real Brian Schottenhiemer out of yourself.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Stop talking, you're making a real Brian Schottenhiemer out of yourself.

 

[Jace, Extat]

Seriously though. Who the hell do you have ahead of Wilson? Did you see that Wildcard game? Did you see Seattle at all this year? They existed in January EXCLUSIVELY because of Wilson. 

My top QBs list starts at Rodgers and ends with Wilson, not necessarily in that order. 

[Ramsay B.]

19 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Seriously though. Who the hell do you have ahead of Wilson? Did you see that Wildcard game? Did you see Seattle at all this year? They existed in January EXCLUSIVELY because of Wilson. 

My top QBs list starts at Rodgers and ends with Wilson, not necessarily in that order. 

I was a Wilson doubter early on, but the dude has single-handedly made this team any type of good for like the last 3 seasons.

I was also hoping that all the bs NY rumors had an inkling of truth to it. I would’ve gladly offered Seattle most of Giants picks from this year... and work from there.

[Kalbear]

The only reason to trade Wilson now would be to try and get the next generation of Wilson in the draft, which assumes that there's a good QB in this draft (there really aren't), that you can ensure they're as good as Wilson would be AND they'd be as cheap as Wilson was (good luck), and you didn't just hand one of the best players of the last 10 years over for the hopes of a QB that you've talked yourself into.

Maybe if the Clemson QB comes out or Tua comes out, we could talk - but this year? Pffft. 

[Bronn Stone]

Trading Wilson would be better than letting him sit and fester, as Washington let Cousins do.  If Russell had made insane demands, that might have had to happen.  But of course, signing him is the right thing if a reasonable deal could be reached and it seems it could.

[Iskaral Pust]

Seahawks were absolutely right not to trade Wilson.  Maybe they could have used the franchise tag in case he starts to decline, although his scrambles aren't the same as a RB running hard yards.  But no way were they going to get enough draft capital to make a trade appealing.  It's smarter for them to keep picking up young, late-round/undrafted RBs, use picks and free-agency to replace the departed secondary, and try to coach the OL into some improvement.  That's not guaranteed to get them back into contention, but that's the same problem faced by every other team paying top dollar to a QB.

The Rams are paying Gurley big money now but Goff's rookie contract runs another two years (probably an extension next year then).  The finances will catch up with them eventually too, but they have the advantage right now.

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Seahawks were absolutely right not to trade Wilson.  Maybe they could have used the franchise tag in case he starts to decline, although his scrambles aren't the same as a RB running hard yards.  But no way were they going to get enough draft capital to make a trade appealing.  It's smarter for them to keep picking up young, late-round/undrafted RBs, use picks and free-agency to replace the departed secondary, and try to coach the OL into some improvement.  That's not guaranteed to get them back into contention, but that's the same problem faced by every other team paying top dollar to a QB.

The Rams are paying Gurley big money now but Goff's rookie contract runs another two years (probably an extension next year then).  The finances will catch up with them eventually too, but they have the advantage right now.

It is impossible to overpay a franchise QB. AN ACTUAL bona fide FRANCHISE QB.

Ther3s 4 of them right now. Wilson, Brady, Rodgers, Rapist.

Teams get in trouble for overpaying average or below average starters the next largest contract. I have no love for the Rams but I hope they let Goff walk and perform well afterwards to show teams there's another way.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Seriously though. Who the hell do you have ahead of Wilson? Did you see that Wildcard game? Did you see Seattle at all this year? They existed in January EXCLUSIVELY because of Wilson. 

My top QBs list starts at Rodgers and ends with Wilson, not necessarily in that order. 

I'll break it down like this. I originally had four tiers on how to rank QBs, but after more thought I think the correct number should actually be seven:

Tier 1: Truly Elite

Tier 2: Very, Very Good

Tier 3: Cam Newton

Tier 4: The Mirrors (interchangeable QBs)

Tier 5: Not Good, But Good Enough To Maybe Start

Tier 6: Nothing More Than A Clipboard Commando

Tier 7: Nathan Peterman (i.e. why are you still in the league)

 

There are only two QBs right now that I think are truly elite: A.A.Ron and the homie Patrick. They are clearly the two best QBs in the league right now. I also think that Brady and Brees have an argument to be grandfathered into the top tier. Wilson is probably the next QB I'd consider, especially since Wentz is looking like a shell of himself and Luck needs to prove he can replicate his bounce back year. I don't really care if you think he should be in the top tier or the second tier, it's splitting hairs for the most part. So yeah, I have Russ somewhere between three and six.

My argument was not that the Seahawks should have necessarily prioritized trading WIlson, but they should be open to listening to offers, and if some mark like @Ramsay B. rolls through, you rob them. The 2020 and especially the 2021 drafts both look like they could have a generational talent at QB. Wilson is great, but he isn't that. If a team was to offer a massive haul, the Seahawks should consider taking it, tanking and rebuilding their terrible offensive line and revamp the defense so that the team is ready to go when one of those two is available. RG3 fetched three firsts and a second. If a similar offer came across the Seahawks desk, they'd at least have to think about it.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

It is impossible to overpay a franchise QB. AN ACTUAL bona fide FRANCHISE QB.

Ther3s 4 of them right now. Wilson, Brady, Rodgers, Rapist.

Teams get in trouble for overpaying average or below average starters the next largest contract. I have no love for the Rams but I hope they let Goff walk and perform well afterwards to show teams there's another way.

What are you smoking? Ben is close to washed, and frankly, he might be the most overrated QB of his time. He really only had two great seasons. Compare that to say Romo, who had at least three great seasons. Ben got a lot of yards, but the rest of his stats are a tad underwhelming. 

And the Rams would trade him before letting him walk. 

[Jace, Extat]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'll break it down like this. I originally had four tiers on how to rank QBs, but after more thought I think the correct number should actually be seven:

Tier 1: Truly Elite

Tier 2: Very, Very Good

Tier 3: Cam Newton

Tier 4: The Mirrors (interchangeable QBs)

Tier 5: Not Good, But Good Enough To Maybe Start

Tier 6: Nothing More Than A Clipboard Commando

Tier 7: Nathan Peterman (i.e. why are you still in the league)

 

There are only two QBs right now that I think are truly elite: A.A.Ron and the homie Patrick. They are clearly the two best QBs in the league right now. I also think that Brady and Brees have an argument to be grandfathered into the top tier. Wilson is probably the next QB I'd consider, especially since Wentz is looking like a shell of himself and Luck needs to prove he can replicate his bounce back year. I don't really care if you think he should be in the top tier or the second tier, it's splitting hairs for the most part. So yeah, I have Russ somewhere between three and six.

My argument was not that the Seahawks should have necessarily prioritized trading WIlson, but they should be open to listening to offers, and if some mark like @Ramsay B. rolls through, you rob them. The 2020 and especially the 2021 drafts both look like they could have a generational talent at QB. Wilson is great, but he isn't that. If a team was to offer a massive haul, the Seahawks should consider taking it, tanking and rebuilding their terrible offensive line and revamp the defense so that the team is ready to go when one of those two is available. RG3 fetched three firsts and a second. If a similar offer came across the Seahawks desk, they'd at least have to think about it.

You're wrong.

Patently absurdly irrevocably and inarguably incorrect.