US Politics: A Farewell to Arms

[OldGimletEye]

13 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Are you being sarcastic? Like do you actually think  Schiff acted justly, and shouldn’t face criticism for his conduct or do you think the wrongs done by Republican Party means Schiff should be excused? 

I'm saying that if the Republican Party has a new found appreciation for facts and not making up wild exaggerations, then they should start with their own party first.

And whatever, I may think of Schiff's conduct, just the fact that Republicans are demanding his resignation pretty much makes me want to say "hell, no". The only way to deal with the Republican Party is by playing hardball. I'd tell them, they don't demand shit, unless they are willing to make some major concessions first. Perhaps, you like being walked over like a carpet. But, I don't particularly care for that.

When the Republican Party tries to corner you and pull your punk card, your best bet is to come out swinging.

[Larry of the Lawn]

@Varysblackfyre321

I don't think the investigation was unimportant, just that he [Greenwald] was right that there wouldn't be bigger indictments.  And I still think the actual report could reveal much more corruption and criminal activity by Trump's circle, just that we probably won't see active cooperation between the trump campaign and Russia.

 

eta: Barr isn't dumb, there's no way he can think this thing will never see the light of day.  So if there was some smoking gun linking Don Jr or anyone else, I think we'd be hearing about it.  

[Aemon Stark]

Or perhaps better stated, insufficient (not no) evidence of "collusion" to warrant charges and/or impeachment. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

3 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said:

Or perhaps better stated, insufficient (not no) evidence of "collusion" to warrant charges and/or impeachment. 

completely agree

[DMC]

I dunno, there's a lot of interpretation on what evidence is impeachable and what isn't, and even evidence that warrants charges or doesn't.  Barr almost assuredly had a pretty low bar(r) when evaluating that evidence.  Might not be the same for a lot of other people.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

6 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Did you catch the link to the book in the Buzzfeed article called going back decades or something? I'm working my way through it slowly and am struggling with how to frame it. 

Would be interested in your opinion if you have one. Definitely no pressure though if you haven't the time. 

Oh cool, it's a pdf! I downloaded it. It may be a slow response though--finals are ramping up, we get out the last week of April.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

53 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

He’s married.

So [based off my one marriage]...no sex acts at all?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

49 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Harris details how she would solve the teacher paygap:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/kamala-harris-our-teacher-pay-gap-is-a-national-failure-heres-how-we-can-fix-it/2019/03/25/8fdd5eaa-4f36-11e9-8d28-f5149e5a2fda_story.html

I saw this too. I'm not a Harris fan, but I really love this. It's a move beyond rhetoric and into tangible ways this could happen. I'm also a teacher, so...

[lokisnow]

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

He’s married.

Well now I feel properly “chasten”-ed

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marieclaire.com/politics/amp26854696/pete-buttigieg-husband-chasten-glezman/

they might be the most adorable political couple since the obamas.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

And whatever, I may think of Schiff's conduct, just the fact that Republicans are demanding his resignation pretty much makes me want to say "hell, no".

So it is  primarily just to give a middle finger to the republicans for you. I don’t think Schiff acted as badly as Trump is saying. But I don’t see going “Hell no” just because the republicans are going “Hell yes” good enough reason to really do anything. 

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Perhaps, you like being walked over like a carpet. But, I don't particularly care for that.

I don’t particularly care for this idea of if a politician is a democrat and being heavily bombarded by republicans that democrats should stick up for them regardless of what they did because Democrats.

1 hour ago, DMC said:

First of all, how is pointing out a plain double standard go immediately to are you being sarcastic? 

It seemed to be arguing that it really didn’t matter if the republicans complaints against Schiff here had merit. That the mere fact they’ve taken this position means democrats should reactionarily take the opposite one. I couldn’t help but wonder if it was serious or not. Apparently it is given Old has just stated all was needed for him to go “Hell no” in regards to whether Schiff should resuighn is for republicans to go say he should. 

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Are you disagreeing with the double standard?  If not, why isn't OGE's point substantively valid?

Not really.  It’s not substantialy valid to propose for democrats to do the opposite of republicans.

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Second, YES, I actually do think Schiff acted justly, and has absolutely no reason to resign.  Prove me otherwise.

Then argue his innocence instead of just going “republicans are guilty of x”  It’s a rather lame retort.

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

I don't think the investigation was unimportant, just that he [Greenwald] was right that there wouldn't be bigger indictments.  And I still think the actual report could reveal much more corruption and criminal activity by Trump's circle, just that we probably won't see active cooperation between the trump campaign and Russia.

I concede “unimportant” is a stretch as of now at least. I do agree that there’s probably a lot of corruption and criminal activity that is in the report. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

54 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I saw this too. I'm not a Harris fan, but I really love this. It's a move beyond rhetoric and into tangible ways this could happen. I'm also a teacher, so...

It is a good move by her part. Both politically and morally to be sure. 

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It read like that really didn’t matter if the republicans complaints against Schiff here had merit. That the mere fact they’ve taken this position means democrats should reactionarily take the opposite one. I couldn’t help but wonder if it was serious or not. 

No, that's..not the point at all.  The point is the GOP has been engaging in much more absolute hashbaggery when they control Congress and there's a Democratic president over (at least) the last two Democratic presidents.  So where the hell do they get off getting all high and mighty about much of anything?  That's a very simple point.  And if you don't disagree, there's no reason to whine about it.

8 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not really.  But the point isn’t valid. Just because simply pointing to a double standard doesn’t mean a person apart   should be a exonerated. 

Oh, wait, so you mean two wrongs DON'T make a right?  Thanks, reading rainbow!

Except that wasn't the point.  The point was if the GOP is demanding Schiff should step down based on his "questionable" actions, why shouldn't all the other GOP members that have easily demonstrated at least equally analogous questionable actions?  That's not exonerating anyone at all - in fact it's the opposite.  Again, this is a very simple point.

11 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Then argue his innocence instead of just going “republicans are guilty of x”  It’s a rather lame retort.

Ok, now you just have to be fucking with me.  I have to prove his "innocence?"  Innocence of what exactly?  You haven't even specifically described why he should resign.  And once you do, the standard of proof is usually not burdened upon the accused.  Don't know if you've noticed, but that's kind of a big standard in this country.  Even if it was the opposite, again, I still don't know exactly what you're accusing Schiff of doing.  Because you haven't said it, just used vague language and probably grossly misinterpreting some links.  It's becoming insanely difficult to believe the opinions you are espousing are sincere.  Because if they are, man, motherfuck do I wonder.

[Kalbear]

I sadly think all someone has to do to make Buttigieg fail is say "so you have buttsex with that guy" to him. And the US is simply not able to handle that image. 

Itll be Trump too. He had problems with periods. He won't be able to handle anything else. 

[Martell Spy]

16 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I sadly think all someone has to do to make Buttigieg fail is say "so you have buttsex with that guy" to him. And the US is simply not able to handle that image. 

Itll be Trump too. He had problems with periods. He won't be able to handle anything else. 

The problem is such thinking leads to:

Democrats should not nominate a women for the next 20 years, since Clinton lost. We'll get destroyed. Or 50 years, or 100.

Or Americans will never vote for a black President. Or a black woman.

Quote

 

The Trump administration has lost another Obamacare legal battle — its second this week — just as the president has revived his drive to destroy and replace the 2010 health law.

A federal judge ruled late Thursday in Washington that the administration’s efforts to expand the availability of health plans that don’t meet the coverage rules of the Affordable Care Act is a deliberate and illegal “end run“ around the federal health care law. The ruling addressed insurance known as “Association Health Plans,” which cost less than many Obamacare plans but can also provide fewer health benefits.

The ruling by U.S. District Court Judge John Bates, a George W. Bush appointee, comes just one day after another federal judge rejected the Trump administration’s embrace of work requirements for people on Medicaid, concluding that those new rules in Kentucky and Arkansas violate the program’s primary goal of delivering health care coverage to low-income Americans.

 

Trump administration suffers another Obamacare blow in court

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/28/trump-health-care-1306928

[OldGimletEye]

31 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

So it is  primarily just to give a middle finger to the republicans for you.

I'd say a lot of it is that simple. I don't know what kind of people you think you are dealing with, but I assure you, playin' patty cake with these assholes will get you nowhere. And I think it's extremely naive to think otherwise. It maybe a sorry state of affairs that our politics have come down to this and  I wish it were different. But, it is what it is. 

34 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

But I don’t see going “Hell no” just because the republicans are going “Hell yes” good enough reason to really do anything. 

I think it is. If Republicans think the Democratic Party is going fold faster than Superman on Laundry day, every time it comes up some ridiculous demand, I'm pretty sure they will keep doing more of the same. At this juncture, I don't think there is any reason to think the Republican Party will act in good faith, on well just about anything. Again, it's unfortunate that our politics has come to that, but the situation is what it is.

37 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I don’t particularly care for this idea of if a politician is a democrat and being heavily bombarded by republicans that democrats should stick up for them regardless of what they did because Democrats.

And they shouldn't easily sell their own down the river for allegedly doing the same thing Republicans have done for years. And I'd point out that stuff Schiff has done and said has more basis in reality than what Republicans have said and done for years. Republicans want to play by two sets of rules and I say to hell with that.

[OldGimletEye]

The problem with Democrats and liberals is we're like the fuckin' Gauls. On occassion, we can get super excited and win a battle. But you know, most of the time we're going to lose to the Romans who stick together and are more disciplined and reliable.

[DMC]

I don't think it's too worthwhile to dig into the numbers on Buttigieg and voters' puritan attitudes.  He's a nice story, and I am totally rooting for him to have as much time in the sun as possible, but he's not going to win.  And I can't think of a viable candidate that would want him as a VP.  If he can establish himself as a national name, that's a huge win.  Be nice if he could win something statewide to back it up.  Senate 2022 is his next chance.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Special counsel Robert Mueller’s Trump-Russia report is more than 300 pages long, it was revealed Thursday, sparking fresh criticism from Democrats arguing that Attorney General William Barr’s four-page summary was gravely inadequate and the full findings must be quickly released.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called Barr’s synopsis that cleared President Donald Trump of campaign collusion with Russia and criminal obstruction of the federal probe “condescending” and “arrogant.”

“Mr. Attorney General, we do not need your interpretation,” Pelosi said Thursday. “Show us the report and we’ll come to our own conclusions.” She mocked the administration and Republicans as “scaredy-cats.”

 

Dems Demand Mueller’s Full 300 Pages, Mock ‘Scaredy-Cat’ GOP
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called Barr’s synopsis of the federal probe “condescending” and “arrogant.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dems-demand-muellers-full-300-pages-mock-scaredy-cat-gop_n_5c9d447de4b0474c08cb2671

[Varysblackfyre321]

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

The point is the GOP has been engaging in much more absolute hashbaggery when they control Congress and there's a Democratic president over (at least) the last two Democratic presidents.  So where the hell do they get off getting all high and mighty about much of anything?  That's a very simple point.  And if you don't disagree, there's no reason to whine about it.

Not exactly. Again Old(again), made clear regardless of *if*  Schiff did something wrong enough to warrant his resignation  all he really needed to go “Hell no” was for the GOP to say they want it. A rather impractical  view. I can find fault in the reasons for something supporting I support no lol? 

 

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

Oh, wait, so you mean two wrongs DON'T make a right?  Thanks, reading rainbow!

You’re welcome.

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

Except that wasn't the point.

Except it was.

 

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

Ok, now you just have to be fucking with me.  I have to prove his "innocence?"  Innocence of what exactly?  You haven't even specifically described why he should resign.  And once you do, the standard of proof is usually not burdened upon the accused.

Point to where I said he should reassign. You can’t because my argument was never he should do just that. It was merely that defenses of the man should be why he did nothing wrong-not simply saying the GOP did like it too.

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

I still don't know exactly what you're accusing Schiff of doing.  

I haven’t actually accused him of anything. At all. 

 

49 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's becoming insanely difficult to believe the opinions you are espousing are sincere.  Because if they are, man, motherfuck do I wonder.

Yeah, I think in discussion of Schiff the defense of him should be arguing that he did nothing immoral and/or illegal rather than simply pointing out the follies of the GOP and don’t see the GOP being for something as good  enough reason for democrats to oppose it. Crazy. 

[OldGimletEye]

16 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not exactly. Again Old(again), made clear regardless of *if*  Schiff did something wrong enough to warrant his resignation  all he really needed to go “Hell no” was for the GOP to say they want it. A rather impractical  view. I can find fault in the reasons for something supporting I support no lol? 

Actually it is not impractical to play hardball with the Republican Party. It's about the only viable strategy with them. There are limits of course. But, seriously it would have to be pretty bad to give in to GOP demands, particularly when they have engaged in similar conduct they are accusing Shiff of, but that has been far worse and won't acknowledge it.

The first impulse of the Democratic Party ought to be to fight the Republican Party tooth and nail and not to handwring so much.