UnViserion Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 5/4/2019 at 7:43 AM, Hippocras said: Otherwise she knows that Cersei can and will exploit weak loyalties to undermine her opponents, just like Tywin did with the Freys and Boltons. Actually Cersei really hasn’t demonstrated that ability at all. She hasn’t a tenth the intelligence or cleverness of Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 5/4/2019 at 10:15 AM, Gianna Dorenberg said: Sansa...sigh. I liked her a lot in episode 1 and 2. Heck, I would have had her as my ideal leader over any man or woman. But then the show suddenly makes her into an awful leader, a coward in episode 3. Like they're totally different characters. No consistency. I understand that she'd be afraid but the things she has suffered has made her this strong, intelligent woman. I was expecting her to stand up and act like a queen, instead she acted like an emo child who gave up on everyone and everything in a matter of seconds. The Sansa of episode 1 and 2 wouldn't have behaved that way, despite her fear. The episode was already bad enough and full of errors but they also totally butchered the characters. One moment Arya is taking out a gazillion enemies seconds later she's this afraid little girl who can't take on 3-4 wights. So inconsistent. There was actually a scene in which she and Tyrion took out some wights to protect everyone but they cut it out and had Sansa just take out the dragonglass dagger to 'imply' it. Which is dumb. But yeah her pessimistic attitude in that scene bugged me. I kinda blame it on D&D because when they write the episode they tend to fuck her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Pandean said: But yeah her pessimistic attitude in that scene bugged me. I kinda blame it on D&D because when they write the episode they tend to fuck her up. Just her?? i was hoping she’d show some leadership. She seemed every bit as indifferent towards her people in the crypts as Cersei was to hers in the Battle of the Blackwater. Oh well. At least Sansa didn’t get drunk and forecast that they’d all be in for a bit of a rape like Cersei did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, Hippocras said: The division Cersei will believe she can exploit is between Jon and Sansa. Cersei believes Jon is a bastard and Sansa wants to lead. Sansa, by playing up her own distrust of Dany and thus being IDEOLOGICALLY "with" the Northern lords like Glover (regardless of Glover being there or not) is letting Cersei believe she has something to work with. Cersei will make offers to Sansa. Sansa will pretend to accept them and betray Jon. Instead she will turn the whole thing back on Cersei. I dunno, the mix of both the fact that Cersei is delusional and over estimates her strength along with the history they have, I would be hard pressed to assume she will even make an overture to Sansa as she knows the history of her family and the Starks. She likely doesn't feel she NEEDS to. Especially with the GC in her corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, UnViserion said: Actually Cersei really hasn’t demonstrated that ability at all. She hasn’t a tenth the intelligence or cleverness of Tywin. Actually the show tries really hard to make her seem super intelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deminelle Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Winterz said: Actually the show tries really hard to make her seem super intelligent Not really. Her father didn't think of her smart at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianna Dorenberg Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 58 minutes ago, Pandean said: There was actually a scene in which she and Tyrion took out some wights to protect everyone but they cut it out and had Sansa just take out the dragonglass dagger to 'imply' it. Which is dumb. But yeah her pessimistic attitude in that scene bugged me. I kinda blame it on D&D because when they write the episode they tend to fuck her up. Same. I loved her in the previous episodes but then again it would totally explain why, those weren't written by Dumb&Dumber. Sigh. I must have missed the first, I saw the shot of Sansa taking out the dagger and either thought they were about to kill themselves, at least Sansa, or they were going to attack or something. 53 minutes ago, UnViserion said: Just her?? i was hoping she’d show some leadership. She seemed every bit as indifferent towards her people in the crypts as Cersei was to hers in the Battle of the Blackwater. Oh well. At least Sansa didn’t get drunk and forecast that they’d all be in for a bit of a rape like Cersei did. Right ? lol. Arya aside, they made everyone else look completely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 51 minutes ago, Winterz said: Actually the show tries really hard to make her seem super intelligent Well they’re not very good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Wik said: I dunno, the mix of both the fact that Cersei is delusional and over estimates her strength along with the history they have, I would be hard pressed to assume she will even make an overture to Sansa as she knows the history of her family and the Starks. She likely doesn't feel she NEEDS to. Especially with the GC in her corner. Pretty sure Cersei is looking to avoid an open siege with dragonfire involved. She wants to look strong, yes. The Golden Company gives her room to negotiate. But she really does not want the fight to come to her, and she doesn't want to leave the safety of KL either. She is definitely going to try some scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Hippocras said: Pretty sure Cersei is looking to avoid an open siege with dragonfire involved. She wants to look strong, yes. The Golden Company gives her room to negotiate. But she really does not want the fight to come to her, and she doesn't want to leave the safety of KL either. She is definitely going to try some scheme. Oh, I don't doubt her scheming will occur. I just question that she will openly try to "recruit" Sansa. I would assume she would attempt to get some lower hanging fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Wik said: Oh, I don't doubt her scheming will occur. I just question that she will openly try to "recruit" Sansa. I would assume she would attempt to get some lower hanging fruit. The show doesn't have any lower hanging fruit at this point. But in any case even if there were, Sansa is by far the best bet. Cersei believes she knows Sansa, and she thinks Sansa is the same idiot girl she manipulated into writing that letter to Robb all those years ago. She has major hubris as far as Sansa is concerned, and that is why Sansa will be able to play her. A trueborn girl resenting a bastard taking precedence over her is a fairly common situation. Cersei believes Sansa falls in this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Hippocras said: Pretty sure Cersei is looking to avoid an open siege with dragonfire involved. She wants to look strong, yes. The Golden Company gives her room to negotiate. But she really does not want the fight to come to her, and she doesn't want to leave the safety of KL either. She is definitely going to try some scheme. Have you seen the leaked clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 hours ago, UnViserion said: Just her?? i was hoping she’d show some leadership. She seemed every bit as indifferent towards her people in the crypts as Cersei was to hers in the Battle of the Blackwater. Oh well. At least Sansa didn’t get drunk and forecast that they’d all be in for a bit of a rape like Cersei did. Obviously not just her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandean Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Have you seen the leaked clips? Not the poster you quoted but I'm curious: What leaked clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hippocras said: The show doesn't have any lower hanging fruit at this point. But in any case even if there were, Sansa is by far the best bet. Cersei believes she knows Sansa, and she thinks Sansa is the same idiot girl she manipulated into writing that letter to Robb all those years ago. She has major hubris as far as Sansa is concerned, and that is why Sansa will be able to play her. A trueborn girl resenting a bastard taking precedence over her is a fairly common situation. Cersei believes Sansa falls in this category. Ya, not at all disputing your general sentiment here. I am also obviously looking at it through the knowledge that there are only a couple episodes left as we get resolutions. We will see, but I would be surprised if Cersei approaches her. Still, we will know pretty soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pandean said: Not the poster you quoted but I'm curious: What leaked clips? Leaked clips from the episode tonight, they're being discussed in leak thread(s) and I on the rant and rave thread(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Pandean said: There was actually a scene in which she and Tyrion took out some wights to protect everyone but they cut it out and had Sansa just take out the dragonglass dagger to 'imply' it. Which is dumb. But yeah her pessimistic attitude in that scene bugged me. I kinda blame it on D&D because when they write the episode they tend to fuck her up. I had really hoped that they would have shown sansa to be a good Noble lady in that situation when compared to how cersei was at the battle of blackwater bay. Cersei was a monster during that battle and sansa was more helpful then her in that scene and that was when she was that naive girl, They could have used that scene to show how sansa had grown and how she was good at her role as a noble lady. Instead they used it to set up a tyrion and sansa relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 48 minutes ago, Wik said: Ya, not at all disputing your general sentiment here. I am also obviously looking at it through the knowledge that there are only a couple episodes left as we get resolutions. We will see, but I would be surprised if Cersei approaches her. Still, we will know pretty soon! I don't think they would actually SHOW Cersei contacting Sansa, or Sansa communicating in return. That kind of scheming wasn't shown last time with Tywin and the Red Wedding, so would come as a surprise after the fact with a few hints here and there. It will probably just seem like Sansa is making some really weird decisions until it all comes clear in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Hippocras said: I don't think they would actually SHOW Cersei contacting Sansa, or Sansa communicating in return. That kind of scheming wasn't shown last time with Tywin and the Red Wedding, so would come as a surprise after the fact with a few hints here and there. It will probably just seem like Sansa is making some really weird decisions until it all comes clear in the end. If they have sansa side with cersei then the show has lost all sense. Sansa knows that cersei can't be trusted and absolutely HATES cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, snow is the man said: If they have sansa side with cersei then the show has lost all sense. Sansa knows that cersei can't be trusted and absolutely HATES cersei. yes, you need to scroll back and read the rest of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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