So what will the northman do now? Serious question since they...

[Wik]

31 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

The north has the least people of any kingdom except dorne if I remember right. When aegon and his sisters conquered westero's the king of the north gathered all the troops he could and got a grand total of 35,000 if I remember right. That was him drafting peasents as well to fight with farming tools. Now I can't remember if it's in the books or show but rob brings half of the norths fighting force south and even if we pretend the boltons and karstarks got out with little casulties they still lost well over half that number. Then you had the iron borne rape and pillage their way across the north taking treasure and destroying everything since that seems all that their capable off. Then you had the battle of the bastards which got thousands killed. Then you have the army of the dead battle and they wiped out the umbers so no troops there.  And considering this thread is about "what will the northman do now" it is relevant.

 

And again there has to be generals besides euron in he south. And considering the iron born already used that strategy it seems likely that they would copy it again.

And no the north doesn't have a massive amount of fighting men compare to the southern kingdoms. They could not stand against a united southern army which is what will happen if cersei beats dany.

Well, I don't know how many the other regions have as none of them even give a general estimate but this is from a SOIAF Wiki and states, "It is the largest of the nine major regions of the continent, almost equal in size to the other eight combined. Its total population is under one million." 

Still, even if you say 750,000, it would be VERY likely that the North could easily see a host of 35k completely decimated and still field another, just as large. 

That being said, I am not debating that the North is battered. It OBVIOUSLY is. But as you mentioned the question is "What will the northman do now", not, "What will the northman do after they are invaded?". Because they aren't going to be. 

I also think your assumption about generals is false. Not withstanding D&D's hack writing style, we know of NO ONE who is with the Lannisters who posses tactical acumen. Tywin is dead. Kevan is dead. Jaime isn't going to lead them. Tyrion isn't. Euron has no generals because he kills, gelds (metaphorically) or otherwise humiliates anyone else that would useful so that he doesn't risk anyone else turning against him. Not even The Mountain is sound of mind at this point. 

The ONLY one I would yield you is the commander of the GC. He is a wild card we don't know about. But I also stand firm that Cersei is content on hatching stupid plots instead of really readying for a siege or battle and they have a VERY thin and painfully ignorant chain of command. Might as well have Qubyrn command the reserves lol

 

[Hippocras]

13 hours ago, Wik said:

Fair enough, but whoever marries her will be the Lord that the bannermen answer to and even if Sansa is named Warden, her husband will have that clout behind him. 

Well that depends on the bannermen really. A Lord is a male title and a Lady is a female title. Beyond that, the bannermen decide who they listen to. In the case of Genna Frey (nee Lannister), clearly she was the leader not her husband.

In Sansa’s case it is very clear she has earned the respect of the Northern bannermen and they would listen to her.

[MinscS2]

42 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

In Sansa’s case it is very clear she has earned the respect of the Northern bannermen and they would listen to her.

Allegedly, she hasn't earned enough respect from Robett Glover to have him stay and fight for her sake.

His dislike of Targaryens is evidently stronger than his loyalty for Sansa and the Starks.

Wonder if the show will revisit him in the last episodes, or if we're just to assume (as of Tormunds comment) that he got killed by the AotD.


 

[Hippocras]

50 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Allegedly, she hasn't earned enough respect from Robett Glover to have him stay and fight for her sake.

His dislike of Targaryens is evidently stronger than his loyalty for Sansa and the Starks.

Wonder if the show will revisit him in the last episodes, or if we're just to assume (as of Tormunds comment) that he got killed by the AotD.


 

Well yes, and I think Glover is not alone in his dislike of Targ rule. This is why I am so convinced Sansa is playing things the way she is; She needs to help secure the loyalty of the bannermen by being « with » them in their opposition. Otherwise she knows that Cersei can and will exploit weak loyalties to undermine her opponents, just like Tywin did with the Freys and Boltons.

[NonoNono]

Remember Sansa was literally saying all she could do was wait in the crypts, powerless. They cannot look to her for protection. It probably annoys her to no end, but she can’t protect the north from Cersei and now everyone recognizes it.

[Hippocras]

48 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Remember Sansa was literally saying all she could do was wait in the crypts, powerless. They cannot look to her for protection. It probably annoys her to no end, but she can’t protect the north from Cersei and now everyone recognizes it.

BS. She can’t protect the North from an army of wights because she is not a fighter. But she CAN protect the North from a treacherous schemer like Cersei. She trained her whole life for that job.

Schemers create and exploit divisions and sow distrust. Sansa is staying on top of that game.

[MinscS2]

Yeah, as many issues I have with Sansa over the last two seasons, when it comes to Cersei, Sansa is definitely the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Winterz]

20 hours ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Yes I know, but Glover swore an oath to House Stark as headed by Jon. As far as we know he is still the head of House Stark and can call on Glover to aid Winterfell per the words of his oath. 

Brandon Stark is the lord of House Stark.

Sansa used to be regent of Winterfell but only through her marriage to the former House Bolton

Arya is no one

Jon is a Night's Watch Lord Commander-turned deserter, a bastard and a King who bent his knee to a foreign Queen.

[Gianna Dorenberg]

Sansa...sigh. I liked her a lot in episode 1 and 2. Heck, I would have had her as my ideal leader over any man or woman. 

But then the show suddenly makes her into an awful leader, a coward in episode 3. Like they're totally different characters. No consistency. I understand that she'd be afraid but the things she has suffered has made her this strong, intelligent woman. I was expecting her to stand up and act like a queen, instead she acted like an emo child who gave up on everyone and everything in a matter of seconds. The Sansa of episode 1 and 2 wouldn't have behaved that way, despite her fear. The episode was already bad enough and full of errors but they also totally butchered the characters. One moment Arya is taking out a gazillion enemies seconds later she's this afraid little girl who can't take on 3-4 wights. So inconsistent.

[NonoNono]

I think Sansa knows she is missing a weapon or an army. Thankfully she has Arya, so that's a start.

Arya could manage to take the GC leader's face.

[Ser Uncle P]

1 minute ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

Sansa...sigh. I liked her a lot in episode 1 and 2. Heck, I would have had her as my ideal leader over any man or woman. 

But then the show suddenly makes her into an awful leader, a coward in episode 3. Like they're totally different characters. No consistency. I understand that she'd be afraid but the things she has suffered has made her this strong, intelligent woman. I was expecting her to stand up and act like a queen, instead she acted like an emo child who gave up on everyone and everything in a matter of seconds. The Sansa of episode 1 and 2 wouldn't have behaved that way, despite her fear. The episode was already bad enough and full of errors but they also totally butchered the characters. One moment Arya is taking out a gazillion enemies seconds later she's this afraid little girl who can't take on 3-4 wights. So inconsistent.

I think they deliberately made her look cowardly to contrast with the composure and faith she showed in a similar scenario during the battle of the Blackwater. Tyrion also (to a lesser extent)

They probably felt it was "subverting expectations" to show both of them as weaker shadows of their Season 2 selves...

[Hippocras]

4 hours ago, Ser Uncle P said:

I think they deliberately made her look cowardly to contrast with the composure and faith she showed in a similar scenario during the battle of the Blackwater. Tyrion also (to a lesser extent)

They probably felt it was "subverting expectations" to show both of them as weaker shadows of their Season 2 selves...

Where is this coming from? They showed her and Tyrion, together getting out their dragonglass and getting ready to go out and fight off the crypt wights. Taking a moment to get ready first doesn’t make either of them cowards. Neither does being down there in the first place, since courage is not only the battle kind.

[Ser Uncle P]

1 hour ago, Hippocras said:

Where is this coming from? They showed her and Tyrion, together getting out their dragonglass and getting ready to go out and fight off the crypt wights. Taking a moment to get ready first doesn’t make either of them cowards. Neither does being down there in the first place, since courage is not only the battle kind.

I'm responding to an earlier post who was complaining that Sansa changed massively between ep 2 and 3. 

 

[LadyOlenna]

On 5/3/2019 at 3:19 PM, TNTW said:

I just posted a something that could be connected. If the leak about Tyrion betraying the Starks is true, maybe this is why? Maybe Starks\North don't want to go south, and thus Tyrion schemes, to force their hand. Is later found out, maybe by something Bran sees? IDK, lol.

You could at least have used a spoiler tag, I avoided leaks until now. Thanks a lot

[MinscS2]

1 hour ago, LadyOlenna said:

You could at least have used a spoiler tag, I avoided leaks until now. Thanks a lot

He really should.
If it's any consolation, that "leak" was originally posted by a person who's been wrong about more stuff than right. 

[TNTW]

5 hours ago, LadyOlenna said:

You could at least have used a spoiler tag, I avoided leaks until now. Thanks a lot

I am so sorry. I wasn't thinking!  

[Wik]

On 5/4/2019 at 8:43 AM, Hippocras said:

Well yes, and I think Glover is not alone in his dislike of Targ rule. This is why I am so convinced Sansa is playing things the way she is; She needs to help secure the loyalty of the bannermen by being « with » them in their opposition. Otherwise she knows that Cersei can and will exploit weak loyalties to undermine her opponents, just like Tywin did with the Freys and Boltons.

Right, but remember, Robb was close with the Boltons and his bannermen and kept them close. So close that he trusted essentially 50% of his host in the hand of Lord Bolton. At the time there was no dispute between them. If anything, it SEEMED as if Robb and Bolton were very close. So it's hard to say that by being with them is enough to justify their allegiance. 

I think the northern lords have built up a distain for the outside lords of the south and so that can help to unite them but end of the day, we see plenty of lords can be bought. Obviously, story line wise we can say this won't happen, we have 3 episodes left, the Glovers switching sides now would prolong the end but I think you guys get the point. 

 

[Wik]

On 5/4/2019 at 10:41 AM, Winterz said:

Brandon Stark is the lord of House Stark.

Sansa used to be regent of Winterfell but only through her marriage to the former House Bolton

Arya is no one

Jon is a Night's Watch Lord Commander-turned deserter, a bastard and a King who bent his knee to a foreign Queen.

You are absolutely right, but who amongst us thinks BRAN ends up as Lord of Winterfell? Na....

 

Even though he is technically the heir right now he obviously has an arc that will be taking him way of the path of being a "Lord". 

Along with the fact that his arc has resulted in him being virtually unknown to his lords. I doubt much of any of them would be throwing themselves into a frenzy to depose Sansa and install Bran. 

[Hippocras]

6 minutes ago, Wik said:

Right, but remember, Robb was close with the Boltons and his bannermen and kept them close. So close that he trusted essentially 50% of his host in the hand of Lord Bolton. At the time there was no dispute between them. If anything, it SEEMED as if Robb and Bolton were very close. So it's hard to say that by being with them is enough to justify their allegiance. 

I think the northern lords have built up a distain for the outside lords of the south and so that can help to unite them but end of the day, we see plenty of lords can be bought. Obviously, story line wise we can say this won't happen, we have 3 episodes left, the Glovers switching sides now would prolong the end but I think you guys get the point. 

 

The division Cersei will believe she can exploit is between Jon and Sansa. Cersei believes Jon is a bastard and Sansa wants to lead. Sansa, by playing up her own distrust of Dany and thus being IDEOLOGICALLY "with" the Northern lords like Glover (regardless of Glover being there or not) is letting Cersei believe she has something to work with. Cersei will make offers to Sansa. Sansa will pretend to accept them and betray Jon. Instead she will turn the whole thing back on Cersei.

[MinscS2]

6 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

The division Cersei will believe she can exploit is between Jon and Sansa. Cersei believes Jon is a bastard and Sansa wants to lead. Sansa, by playing up her own distrust of Dany and thus being IDEOLOGICALLY "with" the Northern lords like Glover (regardless of Glover being there or not) is letting Cersei believe she has something to work with. Cersei will make offers to Sansa. Sansa will pretend to accept them and betray Jon. Instead she will turn the whole thing back on Cersei.

While I can see this happening, this ultimately sounds a little too much like Littlefingers Winterfell-arc in S7, which ultimately got him killed.