David Selig Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 D&D really don't get that breaking your oath is a huge deal in a society like Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Ned didn't want to go south to serve Robert either. He's honoring it but its not what he wants to do in his heart. Just like, you know, he wouldn't be doing this if Dany wasnt so scary. If Tyrion is afraid if her, Jon is too. Sansa isnt afraid though. David Nutter said Dany "lost it" on that scene with him. Emilia's crazy eyes alone made that clear. In the scene with Varys she's calm, but thats when she says she's going to kill innocent people. Jon hasnt clocked in to work yet to hold Dany back. Sansa is attempting to get Jon out of this drudgery. He's so much more than just Dany's handler. Yes, emotionally thats where Jon is. He's only been able to relax around his NW crew. Sansa wants him to help him, thats why she's taking on the conqueror. Jon is in a toxic relationship and he's not happy. She insists he will be Ned's bastard in public. Gross. She is attempting to get John out of this drudgery? Sorry this doesn’t make sense by giving away his true identity and suggesting he would be a greater ruler she is just throwing him into the lion’s mouth and she doesn’t even ask him if that’s what he wants. This is the Game of Thrones and Sansa puts John right back in the game. the worst part; he doesn’t know it. Either she is naive therefore dangerous, unfit to open her mouth or totally after her own game gambling John all the way. Either way she is not protecting him, she is betraying him. I think someone needs to liberate John from Sansa immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Greenleif Stark Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, David Selig said: D&D really don't get that breaking your oath is a huge deal in a society like Westeros. To make matters worse, she swore that oath in front of the heart tree in Winterfell's own godswood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: He's only been able to relax around his NW crew. No, simply no. Some of them murdered him and he wanted to leave for good. He quit his Night's Watch duty, he watch ended, he left for Winterfell. But yes, he feels well in the North but he considers Winterfell to be part of the North. He even tells Tormund in the farewell scene: You know THIS is the North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: His wish is to NOT GO. Liberate means get him out of this abusive relationship, out of King's Landing ("how could anyone live like that?" - Jon, S7), and away from the two war mongering queens. But cant get out of it, because of duty and fear. Jon just cant walk away from Dany now. He's chained to her. He's not exactly making "free choices" otherwise he'd go with Tormund. Sansa is fighting for HIM. She is deeply troubled when Tyrion suggests Jon is NEVER coming back North. And you think this is something Jon wants too? Also, calling Sansa an "oathbreaker" is going to look really funny if Jon actually commits treason against Dany. Waiting for it in 3...2...1... Tit for tat. She marched North to fight the army of the dead, and she's entitled to expect her allies to reciprocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 17 hours ago, lakin1013 said: Actually, I would ask those questions. Queen Dany picked up a sword. Noble-born Arya picked up several swords. Brienne of Tarth picked up a sword. Lady Mormont picked up a sword. If Lady Sansa Stark wants to be a full throated proponent for the independence of the North, it would help if she had prepared for the battle. She came across as cowardly to me, while other women were making a stand for the north. Gilly is in the crypts because she is pregnant. Missendei is from peaceful Nath. I make no statements about the males in the crypt as I was talking about females. While it is possible I am applying current sensibilities, we also in the next ep see Sansa breaking an oath, and setting up intrigue to get what she wants. Not only is she cowardly, but she is also a liar to Jon, and a manipulator to Tyrion. Brienne, Arya and Lyanna Mormont are warriors. Trained warriors. Dany is a kind of warrior princess (and yet many people thought it was kinda out of her character when she picked up the sword - and let's not forget that Dany did it only because she fell out of her dragon, if that didn't happen, Dany wouldn't fight with a sword either). Sansa on the other hand... I honestly don't see a single reason why she should pick up a sword and fight. It doesn't mean at all that she doesn't care about the North or something. And I don't understand AT ALL why people have problems with it. Sansa fighting = Sansa dead = no profit for anyone (maybe but Dany). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Nightwish said: She is attempting to get John out of this drudgery? Sorry this doesn’t make sense by giving away his true identity and suggesting he would be a greater ruler she is just throwing into the lion’s mouth and she doesn’t even ask him if that’s what he wants. This is the Game of Thrones and Sansa puts John right in the game without him knowing it. I think someone needs to liberate John from Sansa immediately. Jon is already "in the game" the moment he told spare heir #2. Thats on him. Jon is only vulnerable because Dany made it so scary and weird. She could just chill but she's not. The truth will get out one way or the other. Dany would prefer lies. Sansa knows Jon is not only the rightful heir, he's a better leader. Just look at the situation now in the south and where Dany is leading Jon - its a disaster already. Dany just has to threaten Jon and Sansa for telling. Its inevitable that Jon will be oathbreaker soon to side with his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kajjo said: No, simply no. I was talking about Tormund, Sam, and Edd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: I was talking about Tormund, Sam, and Edd. Sam is Jon's best friend, no matter where. Sam is not a man made for the North, though. Edd was a close and trustworthy friend. He is dead now. Tormund is from north of the wall and wants to wander and roam the free and vast North. Far more north than Jon considers North. The North for Jon is the Northern kingdom, the Stark territory, still green and with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, SeanF said: Tit for tat. She marched North to fight the army of the dead, and she's entitled to expect her allies to reciprocate. Did you pay attention to what Sansa said? She wasnt saying they should never reciprocate. She was saying they should be smarter about it. That's also for Jon's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Did you pay attention to what Sansa said? She wasnt denying they should never reciprocate. She was saying they should be smarter about it. I agree. She wanted to heal and recuperate and plan better. Daenerys rushed it. 2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: That's also for Jon's sake. Well, yes, Sansa wanted to stall because she fears for Jon. That is not a fair move, but just personal interest, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kajjo said: I agree. She wanted to heal and recuperate and plan better. Daenerys rushed it. Well, yes, Sansa wanted to stall because she fears for Jon. That is not a fair move, but just personal interest, though. Everyone is fighting dirty for their family. I just prefer Sansa going behind Jon's back to tell the truth rather than Dany's emotional blackmail of Jon. Overall its Sansa defying Dany's wish to keep it secret. Jon defied Dany anyway. Jon is too sacrificial to fight for himself, and every time he says he doesn't want the title the narrative pushes him closer. In this episode, Jon now has Varys on his side if needed. That's a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Dany's emotional blackmail of Jon Blackmail?! Where did she blackmail him? She begged to him. 3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: I just prefer Sansa going behind Jon's back Really? My goodness. 3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Jon is too sacrificial to fight for himself, That's somehow true. But people are entitled to their own decisions and needs. 4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: In this episode, Jon now has Varys on his side if needed. That's a win. Whether Varys has even been a win, we don't know. Jon does not want to be King as you said yourself. So why is it a win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Jon is already "in the game" the moment he told spare heir #2. Thats on him. Jon is only vulnerable because Dany made it so scary and weird. She could just chill but she's not. The truth will get out one way or the other. Dany would prefer lies. Sansa knows Jon is not only the rightful heir, he's a better leader. Just look at the situation now in the south and where Dany is leading Jon - its a disaster already. Dany just has to threaten Jon and Sansa for telling. Its inevitable that Jon will be oathbreaker soon to side with his family. Yes John is already an oathbreaker Sansa made him. John is in the game without him knowing it or wanting to be in the Game but in the same time she protects him? No all these points contradict each other. either she respects his wishes and keeps his identity a secret so he can return back to North after fulfilling his part and be free to choose what he wishes to say or do, as Bran said that’s his choice, Or she is betraying his secret, exposing him to Dany as a traitor, while John is away from Winterfell and doesn’t even know about it. Of course for Sansa John would make a great ruler because she is stepping all over him all the time. Dany didn’t threaten anybody. She made an agreement with John. Sansa betrayed their trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#teamNightking Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 6 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said: He's Lord of Storm's End. That doesn't make him King of the Seven Kingdoms. It would be the son of the former King thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, #teamNightking said: It would be the son of the former King thing. And the “brother” of two former kings. He has a claim. Gendry is just happy to a lord so he’s not going to rock the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said: Gendry is just happy to a lord so he’s not going to rock the boat. Indeed. He accepted her as queen, so she could make him Lord. No problems to be expected from Gendry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon The Black Dragon Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said: And the “brother” of two former kings. He has a claim. Gendry is just happy to a lord so he’s not going to rock the boat. Gendry won't rock the boat but his kids or grandkids easily could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 2 hours ago, the Greenleif Stark said: To make matters worse, she swore that oath in front of the heart tree in Winterfell's own godswood Excellent point. For her to break her oath so casually right away and for it to be presented as no big deal is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 minute ago, David Selig said: Excellent point. For her to break her oath so casually right away and for it to be presented as no big deal is just ridiculous. Well, it is a big deal, isn't it? Who said is wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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