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Hodor's Dragon

Protagonist suddenly goes crazy in last chapter of epic

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9 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

I think it’s going to be hilarious to hear all the whining and gnashing of teeth from al The Dany fans when the books would end up with basically the same ending if they were ever completed. True there would b a lot more fleshing out and build up but the end would be the same. She’s still the villain. 

I actually like the idea of Dany descending into madness and think it could work well in the books.  But that wasn't a descent, it was a teleportation.  We've seen Dany suffer huge loss and betrayal season after season (Drogo, her child, Jorah's betrayal, Viserion dying) and it only serves to galvanize her.  But don't you touch her translator.

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Just now, Bear42 said:

But don't you touch her translator.

Naw. It was Jon not wanting to have sex with his aunt. She snapped.:rolleyes: Jon should have taken one for the team. So many lives could've been saved. 

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Posted (edited)

Rushed? Yes.

But there were definitely hints.

If you search this forum last seasons you Will find some topics named like: "are they really going for this mad Queen plot?"

 

Yes, they were and probably George too, but he will do It better.

We never see how controlling a dragon causes to Dany. I mean riding It into battle. May be a big change in The books...

Edited by joaozinm

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6 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

And to think people thought Game of Thrones was leagues better than The Walking Dead.

I wonder how those people feel now.

Because The Walking Dead, for all its imperfections, never made this many huge mistakes...

TWD just got ridiculous and then boring which was sad because the upcoming arc was awesome in the comics. However a big part of the problem was they lost so many big character and are left with mostly characters we barely know. It just wasn't fun to watch anymore and after the season premiere this year I realized I had forced myself to sit through it and I have no desire to watch it anymore. They made big mistakes in the writing but this episode just managed to destroy one of the main characters completly for no real reason. Just for shock value. I do know that I went from being very excited about seeing the ending to being "well it's just one more episode so might as well see it through" to do that so completly in one episode after so many seasons is insane.

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2 minutes ago, joaozinm said:

Rushed? Yes.

But there were definitely hints.

If you search this forum last seasons you Will find some topics named like: "are they really going for this mad Queen plot?"

 

Yes, they were and probably George foi but he will do It better.

We never see how controlling a dragon causes to Dany. I mean riding It into battle. May be a big change in The books...

The hints would have led to her going after cersei even if it meant killing innocent people. Not her killing innocent people because "hey why not". I have said it more then once and will keep saying it. She became worse then her father in one episode. He was gonna destroy kings landing because he lost and it was him doing a "if I can't have it nobody will" which is still horrific and evil there is no doubt about it. However dany had just won the iron throne more or less and decides to go on a massive killing spree for no reason

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The problem with TWD is that the formula they use is too repetitive for TV. The comics are about grinding and surviving with ocasional drama.

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6 minutes ago, Wsc48 said:

Naw. It was Jon not wanting to have sex with his aunt. She snapped.:rolleyes: Jon should have taken one for the team. So many lives could've been saved. 

That seen was horrific. If he had said I can't do this because we are related that would have been one thing. Or if he had said I can't do this if you are gonna burn kings landing to the ground and kill innocent people. Instead he just pulls away and gives her a cold look.

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1 minute ago, snow is the man said:

TWD just got ridiculous and then boring which was sad because the upcoming arc was awesome in the comics. However a big part of the problem was they lost so many big character and are left with mostly characters we barely know. It just wasn't fun to watch anymore and after the season premiere this year I realized I had forced myself to sit through it and I have no desire to watch it anymore. They made big mistakes in the writing but this episode just managed to destroy one of the main characters completly for no real reason. Just for shock value. I do know that I went from being very excited about seeing the ending to being "well it's just one more episode so might as well see it through" to do that so completly in one episode after so many seasons is insane.

You will never ever see a showrunner or a writer from TWD say that "oh well Rick kinda forgot about the cannibals from Terminus which led to one of his friends' being kidnapped and having his leg eaten" or "creatively, Rick not caring about Carl's whereabouts made the most sense to us because he wanted it to happen so that Rick could die"

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

You will never ever see a showrunner or a writer from TWD say that "oh well Rick kinda forgot about the cannibals from Terminus which led to one of his friends' being kidnapped and having his leg eaten" or "creatively, Rick not caring about Carl's whereabouts made the most sense to us because he wanted it to happen so that Rick could die"

You mean so carl would die right?

This would have been the equivilant of rick deciding to kill all of his friends and family in a hissy fit.

And yeah when I heard the "she forgot about the iron fleet" I thought that they should never do another interview.

Edited by snow is the man

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1 minute ago, snow is the man said:

The hints would have led to her going after cersei even if it meant killing innocent people. Not her killing innocent people because "hey why not". I have said it more then once and will keep saying it. She became worse then her father in one episode. He was gonna destroy kings landing because he lost and it was him doing a "if I can't have it nobody will" which is still horrific and evil there is no doubt about it. However dany had just won the iron throne more or less and decides to go on a massive killing spree for no reason

Her hate was not toward Cersei only. She lost her claim to throne, was betrayed by her beloved one, by her Hand and master of Secrets.

Lost her 2 most loyal servants.

She simple realize that she is now in a land that hated her but that she Will have to rule.

She doesnt Care If they dont love her they will Obey by fear.

All these situations triggered her lineage madness during the Battle.

That way Cersei was Just colateral damage, westeros was the real target.

 

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11 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

The funny thing is, every single plan of his goes wrong. EVERY SINGLE ONE. As he laid out his plans to Jamie, I said with full confidence to the wife, "Yup, that's not gonna happen!"

Do you remember Littlefingers game? The one about considering the motivations of others and making up theories to make them fit? If Tyrions plan was to stop the threat of the White Walkers AND keep Cersei on the Iron Throne, it would fit very well. Except we can all read his face well enough to see that he is pained by his failures.

I was expecting his plan to backfire along the lines of Cersei feigning a surrender. But rather than surrendering, she had mined the area around the gates with wild fire and crushed most of Daenerys' army when it tried to march into the city.

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35 minutes ago, joaozinm said:

Her hate was not toward Cersei only. She lost her claim to throne, was betrayed by her beloved one, by her Hand and master of Secrets.

Lost her 2 most loyal servants.

She simple realize that she is now in a land that hated her but that she Will have to rule.

She doesnt Care If they dont love her they will Obey by fear.

All these situations triggered her lineage madness during the Battle.

That way Cersei was Just colateral damage, westeros was the real target.

 

But that made no sense. she didn't hate westeros she may have gotten to the point where she no longer cared about them I would be willing to go with that because of her loss but this was just stupid and completly out of character.

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13 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

What a cheap, juvenile Fiction-Writing 101 trick that was to pull at the end of an epic story.

Nothing in this story set that up. Yeah, Daenerys doled out harsh punishment--from our perspective--a handful of times. But she always did it for a reason--a good reason, in fact. Every time.

But to burn a whole city packed with people when there was absolutely zero military need for it? And they were careful to set that up, the zero military need. They'd told us over and over: when you hear the bells tolling, that means the city is surrendering. So yeah, let's hear those bells tolling. Let's see the Lannister commander throw down his sword at Jon's feet. Let's make good and damned sure you now that burning the city has nothing at all to do with winning the battle, it's just a little sugar on top from your favorite queen.

It's a complete betrayal of one of my favorite, most complex, driven yet sympathetic characters in all of literature, A complete betrayal.

You know, Martin left the story in a position where it was a long, long way from "Mad Queen Daenerys" but he didn't make it impossible to get there. Yet these guys never made a move in that direction. Ghey'd give your occasional reminder she could be severe and harsh but it was always for a good reason, with everything she sad and did pointing at her good intentions by the people she intended to rule, and not only that but the smartest characters in the story continually told us she would be a great queen.

I so hope the books get finished. If it finishes this same way, it can still be just as satisfying so long as the ending is set up and makes sense. This made none - it was a cheap writer's trick, the "late crazy," even more worn out than the old all-the-monsters-die-when-the-chief-monster-goes they treated us to a couple of weeks ago. 

What a crap, crap season. Those guys should be run out of town on a rail--but instead, they'll make vast riches and get to name their price, cast and script for their next abortion.

We've known for a while that they are hacks. 

I don't doubt (as I had felt she was doomed to something like this for a while) that GENERALLY this is how her arc ends but the show has done SUCH a poor job of conveying feelings, thoughts, moments etc to the watcher, where a majority of us feel fairly confident that GRRM would and will convey these in much more foreshadowing and far greater detail and events that tie things together and make MUCH more sense. 

Her arc seems especially rushed via the show version and very poorly done, I will agree with that 100%. But she is a Targ, deep down you had to know this was POSSIBLE, that is the WHOLE issue with Westeros rising up against them during Robert's Rebellion. They are not stable people, specifically when heavily inbred. 

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

And to think people thought Game of Thrones was leagues better than The Walking Dead.

I wonder how those people feel now.

Because The Walking Dead, for all its imperfections, never made this many huge mistakes...

TWD's adaptation of "All Out War" was pretty bad.  Last season, though, was very enjoyable.

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7 minutes ago, Winterfell's Crypt said:

TWD's adaptation of "All Out War" was pretty bad.  Last season, though, was very enjoyable.

Yes, last season (season 9 of TWD) was very good and the season with the "All Out War" adaptation (season 8 of TWD) was pretty bad. Easily one of the two worst seasons of the entire show...

But TWD at its worst was miles better than this season of Game of Thrones.

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2 hours ago, ron2112 said:

But one could see how the following might push her over the edge:

- Loss of two most trusted advisors/friends in rapid succession

- Loss of most of the Dothraki army

- Feeling that Jon isn't 100% loyal to her

- Hatred for Cersei

But yes, these should be built up over time -- maybe 1 or 2 whole seasons.  As it's executed in the shows, I can see the line from A to B, but it feels rushed.

and most importantly loss of two of her children

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16 minutes ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

and most importantly loss of two of her children

Yes, thanks for reminding me......the fact that she refers to the dragons as her "children" has always struck me as a bit nuts.

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Just now, ron2112 said:

Yes, thanks for reminding me......the fact that she refers to the dragons as her "children" has always struck me as a bit nuts.

I think it was after the loss of her baby to drogo and realising she would never be able to have anymore of her own that she went a bit loop de loop. similar to a cat lady in her 60s without children.

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Dany was jamming hard to this song after Jon Snow made a yuck face and refused her for the second time. maybe the children of King's Landing would still be alive if he just did his duty.

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