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Kajjo

Destiny of Jon Snow

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30 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Jon Snow is Azor Ahai. He quenched his sword in water when battling the WW's (the White Walkers are ice, ice is frozen water).
He then quenched his sword in the heart of a Lion battling the Lannisters (Lannister sigil is a lion).
He finally quenched his sword in Nissa Nissa when stabbing Daenerys (his lover). And with that ending the war for humanity.

Salutations honoured Ser

:bowdown:

I completely missed this parallel

If he had plunged Longclaw into her heart (rather than the knife), it can be said to have turned into Lightbringer - I know prophesies don't work out literally, if at all, and I'm not a huge fan of the Nissa Nissa thing, but this is a very nice parallel indeed. Not saying he needed to use his new light sabre to slay the philosopher-dragon ("the Monster" to complete the entire AA arc) or break the furniture, an interesting Easter egg to ponder about nonetheless.

Pity everything else was so shoddily written and produced. In fact, this was likely pure accident or from GRRM.

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5 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

Salutations honoured Ser



:bowdown:

I completely missed this parallel

If he had plunged Longclaw into her heart (rather than the knife), it can be said to have turned into Lightbringer - I know prophesies don't work out literally, if at all, and I'm not a huge fan of the Nissa Nissa thing, but this is a very nice parallel indeed. Not saying he needed to use his new light sabre to slay the philosopher-dragon ("the Monster" to complete the entire AA arc) or break the furniture, an interesting Easter egg to ponder about nonetheless.



Pity everything else was so shoddily written and produced. In fact, this was likely pure accident or from GRRM.

To be honest, I missed this parallel at first as well, I got it from a reddit post, where lightbringer is also explained:

Perhaps the Iron Throne was in fact the monster; it represented the Wheel. Power struggle, deception, conquest and destruction – the Iron Throne. And with Jon’s final thrust, and he caused Drogon to burn the Iron Throne - 1,000 Flaming Swords, melting it away, symbolic of the end of the old era. A new system of the kingdom choosing its ruler began, forging a new era of peace and prosperity - forging Lightbringer. And the darkness fled before him.

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Also, imagine a scenario she accepts it (to an extent at least) more like Nissa Nissa of legend. "You really think humanity is better off this way, Jon Snow? Do it then!"

A bit Shakespearean maybe, but better than a sneaky stab in the lungs/liver.

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19 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

Also, imagine a scenario she accepts it (to an extent at least) more like Nissa Nissa of legend. "You really think humanity is better off this way, Jon Snow? Do it then!"

Yes, originally (before season 8 started) I expected somethin like that in the end, in order to beat the Night King.

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:33 PM, Erkan12 said:

Lol no,

Sansa is power hungry, but she never betrayed Jon nor she would murder innocent people. She even wanted Jon as their king at the end, but Unsullied and Yara didn't let them.

She also explained her reasons very well on why they want a seperate kingdom, that's what the north wants, she couldn't control the North otherwise.

Actually Sansa has betrayed Jon in several instances:

  1. Withholding the knowledge of the presence of the Knights of the Vale (notice how disappointed her expression changes when she realizes Jon survived the Bolton encirclement)
  2. She repeatedly undermined him when he was the King.
  3. She told Tyrion about Jon's heritage, knowing that Tyrion would keep it to himself.
  4. The show runners said Euron and Cersei had warning that Daenerys was moving south to Dragonstone... I wonder who tipped them off?

 

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The wildlings, apart from Tyrion, were the only people who treated Jon just as a person.

Not a Stark, bastard, or anything, but the man he was.

It makes 100% sense for him to leave behind the petty world of Westeros and live beyond the wall.

The NW even murdered him once, do not think he thought of that place with any fond memories.

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:51 AM, Kajjo said:

How do you interpret the last scene of Jon Snow?

He is riding with Tormund and Ghost and a lot of wildlings, the Gates of the Night's Watch closing behind him.  Did Jon Snow once cut his honor and decided to have a life with Tormund and the wildlings as was foreshadowed in the E4 farewell scene Jon/Tormund?

Personally, this is my guess. Jon living with the wildlings, not returning to the Night's Watch. 

By the way, I enjoyed that he was reunited after all with Ghost. 

I think I could have overall accepted Jon's ending had 

  1. It had been him to come up with the idea to go to the Wall
  2. That the Night's Watch had been changed to adapt to the new age... allow the men to have families, etc.
  3. Had the character of Val been in the show and also been waiting for Jon at the Wall.

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12 minutes ago, wvchemteach said:

I think I could have overall accepted Jon's ending had 

  1. It had been him to come up with the idea to go to the Wall
  2. That the Night's Watch had been changed to adapt to the new age... allow the men to have families, etc.
  3. Had the character of Val been in the show and also been waiting for Jon at the Wall.

That wouldn't be a bittersweet ending, then.  It would be a mostly happy one.

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8 minutes ago, Skills said:

That wouldn't be a bittersweet ending, then.  It would be a mostly happy one.

What Jon wanted at the beginning of the show more than anything was the opportunity to prove himself worthy as Eddard Stark's son.

It was something unfortunately that was not possible in the 7 Kingdoms with he stigma of his bastardly which was why he went to the Night's Watch. It was the only institution where he had a remote chance of getting by on his ability rather than being held back by his name.

Of course when he got to the Wall he found that 1) the Watch wasn't all that honorable and 2) not everyone advanced due to ability (for example Waymar being in command of the ranging where he died even though he'd been at the Wall less than a full year.)

What Jon wanted more than anything was to be a Stark and to be truly part of the family. The reality is that even if Val had been waiting for him at the Wall he was never going to be a Stark or truly part of the family.

Between Sansa's machinations and him having to do the right thing to save the world it guaranteed that he would never be a Stark of Winterfell... which means Jon never gets his true desire, but instead has to settle.

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On 5/20/2019 at 6:51 AM, Kajjo said:

How do you interpret the last scene of Jon Snow?

He is riding with Tormund and Ghost and a lot of wildlings, the Gates of the Night's Watch closing behind him.  Did Jon Snow once cut his honor and decided to have a life with Tormund and the wildlings as was foreshadowed in the E4 farewell scene Jon/Tormund?

Personally, this is my guess. Jon living with the wildlings, not returning to the Night's Watch. 

By the way, I enjoyed that he was reunited after all with Ghost. 

I would not feel sure, but the closing of the gate was the LAST SHOT of the entire series. Him looking back and the walls closing behind him. Looking back on his old life and all the things that happened in the series before moving on. 

This is a little OOC for Jon, but with all he's been through and his grief it's possible even for him to break his oath, if he even made one at all. 

I think him living free in the North with ghost is the best ending for him, far better than ruling. He is definitely made to be a family man so I see a wife and children in his future, which makes it important he's not in the Nights Watch. 

I actually imagined a similar ending for Dany, where she would come to understand the chaos and violence her dragons wrought on the world, but still loving them, would live with them in isolation.

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18 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I still think he's going to be Aegon VII in the books.

I think that this (or a son of his) being on the throne at the end makes sense.

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At least he petted Ghost.

My headcannon is that he found his Val afterwards.

And all was well. Far, far away from the troubles brewing in the South.

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If he was going to live with the Wildlings why was Sansa so unhappy for him? It wasn’t a punishment in a way. I think he was just leading them home as a ranger. 

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Are you certain Sansa was not willing to allow them to execute Jon if it meant an independent north and/or Bran on the throne?  It was Arya who moved the option "off the table" not Sansa.  Jon is as much a threat to Sansa's claim on the North as the last of the Starks as he a threat to claim the throne as a Targaryen in the south.  Probably more so as people actually know him as Ned Starks son in the north.  

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1 hour ago, RFL said:

Are you certain Sansa was not willing to allow them to execute Jon if it meant an independent north and/or Bran on the throne?  It was Arya who moved the option "off the table" not Sansa.  Jon is as much a threat to Sansa's claim on the North as the last of the Starks as he a threat to claim the throne as a Targaryen in the south.  Probably more so as people actually know him as Ned Starks son in the north.  

Given that I'm pretty sure Sansa hoped Jon would die during the Battle of the Bastards and did not seem to concerned about his well-being when she lobbed the bomb of his heritage to Tyrion to spread around I don't think Sansa would have been the slightest bit upset of Jon died. I think the only reason she's pleased about the Night's Watch is that it prevents him from making any claim.

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Posted (edited)

I feel Jon is a bit like Frodo in Lord of the Rings. All companions do their best but it is him who wears the big burden and saves the world from evil. And just like Frodo, he saves the world for everyone but not for him (in the books it is expressed even more clear than in the film). But Frodo has the will to leave and with Jon, we will never know.

 

 

Edited by Black Arya

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On 5/23/2019 at 4:08 PM, wvchemteach said:

Given that I'm pretty sure Sansa hoped Jon would die during the Battle of the Bastards and did not seem to concerned about his well-being when she lobbed the bomb of his heritage to Tyrion to spread around I don't think Sansa would have been the slightest bit upset of Jon died. I think the only reason she's pleased about the Night's Watch is that it prevents him from making any claim.

I agree with this. Gosh, I remember in s6 how everyone was praising Sansa on how she won the BofB and Jon was an idiot. Like, really? Nobody questioned why a whole army was concealed from the northern lords? Why they came only after the bulk of the northern+wilding army was decimated? Everybody conveniently forgot how Sansa coaxed Jon in battling for Winterfell by invoking their family and how a monster had their brother in their clutches? And she told him that Rickon was basically dead before Jon went into battle? Well, that did well for his morale. So many problems, so, so many problems. 

How was she "playing the game" in s8 by telling Tyrion of Jon's parentage? In s7 when Jon decided to trust Tyrion and go to Dragonstone everyone was s**tting on him but when Sansa does it in s8 she's smart? How is it smart telling the Hand of a queen how his queen doesn't have the highest claim on the seat she is pursuing? 

And the problem is this is not on the character, not really. D&D thinks this is what stands for politics so when they say Sansa is smart and cunning even though what you see on screen shows differently, what can you do? Judging Sansa's decisions is worthless because they don't make sense.

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I actually started another thread on just this (still pending approval).  I'm in agreement.  Sansa was aiming for Jon.  She saw him as a threat.  When he did not die in battle she was looking for ways to have him executed 

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For the record was there any happy ending available for Jon?  He was disillusioned with life before the battle of the bastards and wanted it made clear he did not want brought back.   He also responds with "not that I saw" when asked if there was anything on the other side.  He doesn't want to lead but he is not a follower either.  

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