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Space Launches, Landings, and Destinations - SpaceX Thread #3

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If you live on the inside of a Dyson sphere you presumably don’t care about cosmic rays on the outside. And if a civilization was quite content to carve up entire planets as raw material for construction of the Dyson sphere then they probably aren’t too bothered about preserving the “solar ecosystem” either.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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Pressurization test of main tank of Starship Mk. 1 today...   And the upper bulkhead flies off.  The lower bulkhead maybe too.

Musk says they're not going to bother rebuilding it.  Apparently the decision not to fly Mk. 1 on the 20km test previously announced had already been made before today, so it never would have flown anyway, and no loss to the program really.   They're moving on to the Mk. 3 design which will have a number of upgrades to the manufacturing process.  Mk. 1 was an effective pathfinder for that, but the Mk. 3 is substantially different.

Mk. 2 in Florida is about a month behind in getting built.  I imagine that one will be used for the 20km test.

Edited by SpaceChampion

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On 11/19/2019 at 6:40 PM, SpaceChampion said:

 

I don't understand this hurry with the program, just to generate hype?. They just put the poor engineers under stress and shit happens as we saw above. They are building anyway a revolutionary system with no parallel around the world. It is going to remain so even it is available after 2030. Just take the time ffs!

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13 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

I don't understand this hurry with the program, just to generate hype?. They just put the poor engineers under stress and shit happens as we saw above. They are building anyway a revolutionary system with no parallel around the world. It is going to remain so even it is available after 2030. Just take the time ffs!

They don’t have time. They want to build a colony on Mars and see it grow to a small city in Elon’s lifetime. 

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2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

They don’t have time. They want to build a colony on Mars and see it grow to a small city in Elon’s lifetime. 

They should learn then from us, asoiaf fans. Elon - unless chronically ill - has more time than our beloved author.

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4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

I don't understand this hurry with the program, just to generate hype?. They just put the poor engineers under stress and shit happens as we saw above. They are building anyway a revolutionary system with no parallel around the world. It is going to remain so even it is available after 2030. Just take the time ffs!

A few reasons. First, the kind of engineer that works for Elon Musk almost certainly finds the borderline unrealistic deadlines motivational and is very well accustomed to stress. Second, it's not obvious how they'd pay the engineers through 2030 (and even if they can, they'd certainly rather not do it). Third, it looks unparalleled now, but if they wait, China can beat them to it. Even today it is already leading in the number of annual launches and should its leadership decided to accelerate development, they have orders of magnitude more resources to throw at the problem than SpaceX.

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I'm sorry but I don't find any of these reason too compelling. There might be others but let's see

3 hours ago, Altherion said:

A few reasons. First, the kind of engineer that works for Elon Musk almost certainly finds the borderline unrealistic deadlines motivational and is very well accustomed to stress.

I've heard in few instances that the environment at SpaceX is not always the best, but even if not true engineers work better when left alone without such extreme managerial pressure. I know that myself. Their way around is to start cutting corners. I know that myself.

 

3 hours ago, Altherion said:

Second, it's not obvious how they'd pay the engineers through 2030 (and even if they can, they'd certainly rather not do it).

Why not? They are just starting to reap the benefits from the investments done with the Falcon 9.  Remember only the Block 5 first stage seems to be truly reusable, after ~15 years of development. It is the most competitive rocket in its class and companies love it, no only because the price tag. They should squeeze all the juice before ditching it.  What happened with all these space tourism plans with the Crew Dragon?

The Falcon Heavy should allow SpaceX to start their interplanetary plans, like sending stuff to Mars and the Moon. You need some infrastructure there beforehand.

 

3 hours ago, Altherion said:

Third, it looks unparalleled now, but if they wait, China can beat them to it. Even today it is already leading in the number of annual launches and should its leadership decided to accelerate development, they have orders of magnitude more resources to throw at the problem than SpaceX.

The number of launches means little. The Soviet Union was performing 100+ launches/year for 20 years, but US still led interplanetary exploration. Russia could still beat them in number of launches if resources allowed, the haven't lost that capability. In Soviet times they could have a rocket ready in two days. But going to Moon is another thing.

China still has serious problems with their SLS-like rocket (CZ-9) and it seems they are moving to a heavier Falcon Heavy-like rocket. China has a lot of resources but they are still relying in Russian technology for several key areas. China is taking their time to learn the curve, or have you wondered about the small number of crewed launches that China has made?

 

 

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6 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

I've heard in few instances that the environment at SpaceX is not always the best, but even if not true engineers work better when left alone without such extreme managerial pressure. I know that myself. Their way around is to start cutting corners. I know that myself.

It depends on the person. Much as I like what SpaceX and Tesla are doing, I would not want to work for either one of them or any other Musk venture. However, my point was that this has been his mode of operation for nearly two decades and everyone who works there or applied for a job there knows it and can deal with it. People who don't like unrealistic deadlines or can't handle severe stress are simply in the wrong place.

6 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Why not? They are just starting to reap the benefits from the investments done with the Falcon 9.  Remember only the Block 5 first stage seems to be truly reusable, after ~15 years of development. It is the most competitive rocket in its class and companies love it, no only because the price tag. They should squeeze all the juice before ditching it.  What happened with all these space tourism plans with the Crew Dragon?

Falcon 9 is not fully reusable (like Starship is intended to be). Even if they can reuse the fairing, the second stage is always lost. Crew Dragon is getting to the point where NASA will allow it to be used, but again, Starship is better in every way.

7 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

The number of launches means little. The Soviet Union was performing 100+ launches/year for 20 years, but US still led interplanetary exploration. Russia could still beat them in number of launches if resources allowed, the haven't lost that capability. In Soviet times they could have a rocket ready in two days. But going to Moon is another thing.

It is true that China is not currently at the same level as SpaceX, but if they choose to use this as a means of investing into high-tech engineering, they could catch up. I'm not saying that this will necessarily happen, but given that the amount of resources at the disposal of SpaceX is quite small compared to most other entities that build large spacecraft, it's a bad idea for SpaceX to rest on its laurels.

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Any legal experts who can give me an idea of what is actually at stake in Elon’s defamation trial? Unsworth has asked for $75k compensation. Is that (plus legal fees) the extent of Musk’s possible exposure, or can an emotional jury dish out any arbitrary penalty amount based on his net worth?  Surely Unsworth can’t go from Joe Nobody to a billionaire thanks to the fact that the guy who defamed him just happened to be super rich? The latter would seem unfair to me, but hey, I’m no legal expert.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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Is that the guy Musk was trying paint as pedo in the media?

I think Elon should be grateful im not on that jury. He crossed the line.

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13 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Any legal experts who can give me an idea of what is actually at stake in Elon’s defamation trial? Unsworth has asked for $75k compensation. Is that (plus legal fees) the extent of Musk’s possible exposure, or can an emotional jury dish out any arbitrary penalty amount based on his net worth?  Surely Unsworth can’t go from Joe Nobody to a billionaire thanks to the fact that the guy who defamed him just happened to be super rich? The latter would seem unfair to me, but hey, I’m no legal expert.

Justice and compensation for libel and slander should not be based on the size of one's bank account.  To make it fair for all, paying half of one's net worth should be enough to disincentivize the loudmouths amongst us. That way the stupid but superrich will have as much to lose as the rest of us.

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16 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Any legal experts who can give me an idea of what is actually at stake in Elon’s defamation trial? 

The last vestiges of the absurd notion that Elon Musk is actually one of the good guys?

Edited by Spockydog

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On 12/4/2019 at 10:10 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Any legal experts who can give me an idea of what is actually at stake in Elon’s defamation trial? Unsworth has asked for $75k compensation. Is that (plus legal fees) the extent of Musk’s possible exposure, or can an emotional jury dish out any arbitrary penalty amount based on his net worth?  Surely Unsworth can’t go from Joe Nobody to a billionaire thanks to the fact that the guy who defamed him just happened to be super rich? The latter would seem unfair to me, but hey, I’m no legal expert.

In my opinion, it would substantially more fair Unsworth becomes a billionaire out of suing Musk for telling the world the guy’s a pedophile than say, inheriting billions from your wealthy parents/grandparents. Unsworth would have suffered to get the billions. 

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In the general case? Certainly.

The law is widely seen as being at least partly a tool giving the rich more power over everyone else. It is felt that they can get away with behaving illegally towards us in ways that we could never get away with behaving towards them, precisely because of their deep pockets. They can fund lawsuits, and bear their loss effortlessly, while the financial burden for us of either initiating or defending a case will cause enormous stress even if we do eventually win and don't have our lives wrecked by bankruptcy. Small wonder that so many people fold, and sign whatever the rich person demands to make it all go away.

In that light, having damages that can actually sting a rich person, and perhaps make others think twice, does feel defensible. Though I suppose you could argue that if it does end up being orders of magnitude greater then the recipient might otherwise expect then if should perhaps go to a charity of their choice.

 

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15 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Can a compensatory amount be substantially - as in, orders of magnitude - more than the wildest realistic material damages the plaintiff has suffered?

This is what he was going for: Wood told the jury he supported $5 million in actual damages, $35 million in assumed damages and $150 million in punitive damages. Of course, the drawback of doing this is that many people will think you're being absurd which is possibly why the jury took less than an hour to find Musk not liable.

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