Police - a thin blue line, a wad of cash and scary guns

[Raja]

I just can't get over the fact that she didn't administer CPR after, surely as a cop she was trained in it? That & those racist texts don't really make me particularly sympathetic, but I can understand walking into an apartment that isn't yours ( once got off a 30 hour shift and ended up on the wrong floor, made it to the door before realizing twas not my place).

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I guess I don't see her being a cop as being a primary issue in this matter.  She wasn't acting as a police officer at the time, just a reckless, shoot first person, of which we have far too many of in this country.

She should be held to a higher standard, but got about as low of a sentence as they could go. Considering the recommendation of 28 years, 10 years is very light. Also, I'm pretty sure your waitress would have gotten more time given she wouldn't have as good of a legal team nor the ability to stand on all the plus sides for a defendant of being a cop. I also doubt the castle doctrine would have been applied.

Look, I get at the end of the day people make mistakes, and this is a tragic one. It's not the wrongful shooting that bothers me as much as the fact that she had the supplies and training to help him and did NOTHING. I'm sure she quickly realized it wasn't her apartment and that she wrongfully shot an innocent person, but instead of helping him, she went full CYA immediately. She let him die, and frankly I think this an actual police tactic because if the person they shot dies, only their side of the event is heard and police are generally given the benefit of the doubt as all they have to do is say "I was scared." It's BS.

Also, on that last note, it's worth keeping in mind that society has conditioned us to be more afraid of African Americans than any other ethnic group. So that "fear" can turn into unconscious bias that she's more likely to be in danger because he's black, and it's extra bad in her case because she also expressed conscious bias with those texts.

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Police can and should be held to higher standards though. Even when off duty, they should be capable of exercising greater levels of judgment than the average person - its part of their job to have that judgment and temprament. Or ought to be

Agreed, and it's what always frustrates me about these incidents. Why does the trained agent of the state whose salary comes from the citizenry always get held to a lesser standard than some random person who might not know how to act in an intense encounter? It's completely backwards.

 

[DanteGabriel]

Let's also not forget her fellow cops gave her wide latitude at the crime scene, didn't sequester her in a car while they investigated the area, and let her go hours before a toxicology screening. She got treated with kid gloves for being a cop. But I guess we should feel lucky, since a cop finally got sentenced for murder for killing an unarmed black man. It had to be a literal choir boy that she murdered after invading his home, of course.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Let's also not forget her fellow cops gave her wide latitude at the crime scene, didn't sequester her in a car while they investigated the area, and let her go hours before a toxicology screening. She got treated with kid gloves for being a cop. But I guess we should feel lucky, since a cop finally got sentenced for murder for killing an unarmed black man. It had to be a literal choir boy that she murdered after invading his home, of course.

On top of this, it sounds like he was found sitting on his couch eating ice cream (per NPR). How was he a threat that was coming towards her? And why did she feel the need to go from 0 to 11 when there were so many other options?

[Larry of the Lawn]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

On top of this, it sounds like he was found sitting on his couch eating ice cream (per NPR). How was he a threat that was coming towards her? And why did she feel the need to go from 0 to 11 when there were so many other options?

She also said that she knew someone was inside - she didn't even have to go in there, could have called the police and waited outside.

[BigFatCoward]

Why do you all think police should be held to a higher standard?  If these threads have taught me anything its that the police in America are so totally fucking clueless, that they should be held to a lower standard. 

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Why do you all think police should be held to a higher standard?  If these threads have taught me anything its that the police in America are so totally fucking clueless, that they should be held to a lower standard. 

 

Well maybe we could just start with a "close to the same standard" because this last case is one of the few times an American cop has even had legal consequences for murdering someone.

[DanteGabriel]

6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Why do you all think police should be held to a higher standard?  If these threads have taught me anything its that the police in America are so totally fucking clueless, that they should be held to a lower standard. 

 

Because with great power comes great responsibility?

American cops are too often fearful, biased against minorities, trigger-happy, and poorly trained -- like Guyger. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a lot from people who have a legal monopoly on violence and lethal force.

[HexMachina]

9 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Why do you all think police should be held to a higher standard?  If these threads have taught me anything its that the police in America are so totally fucking clueless, that they should be held to a lower standard. 

 

Should be held to a higher standard because, in theory at least, they aught to be more prepared for these kinds of situations than average Joe off the street. Their job requires (again, theoretically at least) that they are able to act calmly and rationally in response to "perceived threats" (I use that term very sceptically in this case). 

This is of course an ideal/what should be the case. As you correctly point out though, something is broken and the higher standard is not being reached. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be held up to it though

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:08 AM, Maithanet said:

Now, OBVIOUSLY, she acted with criminal negligence, which is why she's going to prison for murder.  But I don't see a 10 year sentence as a slap on the wrist, that is a significant portion of her life. 

Hmm, I see your point. I would not give this woman life. But 7 years given the carelessness of her conduct post-shooting still seems far too low. 

On 10/3/2019 at 7:13 AM, Tywin et al. said:

Do judges normally pray with a hug someone they convict of murder?

I wonder how differently this all goes if a black man enters the wrong apartment and shoots a white woman who is a cop……    

To the bolded: Bigger question: why does this Judge feel praying with the convicted is a appropriate thing to do given she’s still acting as government official in a official capacity? Like this seems really inappropriate regardless of the case in question.

The Freedom from religion foundation  has put up a complaint against her over this and asked for further investigation. It’d be disturbing to see if this type of behavior is a trend. It looks like those conservatives who cry about religious freedom are prepared to stand up for this Judge’s right to preach in court. They would not do this if the book was the Quran, or book of satan, Avesta or even just a book detailing the virtues of Buddhism. If any judge did that they would cry such an action an attack on Christianity. Religious freedom truly does only mean Christian supremacy to these types. They literally  Won’t be satisfied until a Judge could legally begin minute part of a trial asking/demanding everyone say a small prayer to the Judeo-Christian god and finding anyone who doesn’t do just that in contempt.Then Christians will truly be free. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Hey now, us Jews get some religious freedoms too, but that's only because they need us to control Israel so their master plan of not existing anymore works swimmingly. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Hey now, us Jews get some religious freedoms too, but that's only because they need us to control Israel so their master plan of not existing anymore works swimmingly. 

It always baffles me when Evangelicals who preach about  how America must support Israel pretend to be friends with Religious Jews. When the mission of these ultra-Conservative Christians efforts is literally trigger the apocalypse where all these Jews would be killed and sent to Hell. Like, imagine if a woman said she loved her husband but only married him so she could slowly poison him to cash in on a life insurance claim. That’s the type of “love” these have for Jews. Bonkers.

Oh  and the types recognize the God the Jews worship is the same guy they worship. So long as you’re praising the Judeo-Christian god in ways that conform enough to their beliefs you’re religious freedoms are limitless.  

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

Joshua Brown, Botham Jean's neighbor and a key witness for the prosecution in Guyger's case, murdered yesterday in Dallas.  

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/10/05/man-fatally-shot-apartment-complex-near-dallas-medical-district-suspect-loose/

Assuming this is a cop revenge killing?

[BigFatCoward]

44 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Joshua Brown, Botham Jean's neighbor and a key witness for the prosecution in Guyger's case, murdered yesterday in Dallas.  

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/10/05/man-fatally-shot-apartment-complex-near-dallas-medical-district-suspect-loose/

Assuming this is a cop revenge killing?

Well that is quite the leap. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Well that is quite the leap. 

Family's lawyer is also reporting that he was shot in the mouth.

[DireWolfSpirit]

I wonder how many years I would get if I "accidentally" went into my neighbors house, blew his brains out while he's eating fuckng ice cream on the couch and then did nothing to administer aid ?

Also the star witness is assassinated by a driveby hitsquad days after the trial, you have got to be kidding me. The shot in the mouth aspect is a flat out brazen message not to be a narc and shows the perps probably realize they aren't going to be touched for this crime.

This is some real "wiseguy goons" stuff going on.

[BigFatCoward]

4 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 

Also the star witness is assassinated by a driveby hitsquad days after the trial, you have got to be kidding me. The shot in the mouth aspect is a flat out brazen message not to be a narc and shows the perps probably realize they aren't going to be touched for this crime.

This is some real "wiseguy goons" stuff going on.

If it was a drive by, then he wasnt shot in the mouth on purpose. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

14 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Well that is quite the leap. 

Why? It's not unheard for some those in LE to use violence against those who dare speak out against a peers ill behavior. 

Especially when speaking out leads to a "good" cop being sent to prison. 

The shooting could be totally unrelated. But the guy so far hasn't been reported to have any enemies in his private life that would/could kill like this

Curious to see how far this guy will be Demonized by those who'd want to keep negative attention from the Police. I imagine ideas are already being floated that this guy was again ganbanging drug dealer and was killed by a fellow gang. The evidence of he was basically any of that? Basically none. But who cares.   

24 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

If it was a drive by, then he wasnt shot in the mouth on purpose. 

Where he was shot is in dispute. The fact he was clearly the target isn't. 

[BigFatCoward]

7 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

The shooting could be totally unrelated. 

 

Where he was shot is in dispute. The fact he was clearly the target isn't. A

First point, Exactly. There is literally no evidence at this stage this had anything to do with a police revenge attack. Maybe hold off for some more info, before the big leap to 'the police did it'. 

Second point, the implication was that he was shot in the mouth as a message to people to keep their mouths shut, if he wasnt shot in the mouth then clearly that wasnt the message. If he was shot in the mouth from a moving car it wasnt on purpose as that's not a possible shot.

That being said, American police or at least a significant minority, appear to be fucking lunatics, so it wouldn't surprise me.  

[Varysblackfyre321]

44 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

First point, Exactly. There is literally no evidence at this stage this had anything to do with a police revenge attack. Maybe hold off for some more info, before the big leap to 'the police did it'. 

True. 

44 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

That being said, American police or at least a significant minority, appear to be fucking lunatics, so it wouldn't surprise me

Also true. My only point contention of with your statement was that it seemed to imply even the possibility of the police doing this was unrealistic. Apologies.