Alternate wife for Robert baratheon

[Mrstrategy]

What are some alternate wife's for Robert baratheon instead of cersei lannister?

[Arthur Peres]

Lysenne Hightower comes to mind.

[HexMachina]

On 12/22/2019 at 3:54 AM, Arthur Peres said:

Lysenne Hightower comes to mind.

Why the youngest daughter?

[Arthur Peres]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Why the youngest daughter?

Mostly because we know for sure that she wasn't married, this cannot be said about the others, but she is also described as beautiful, she enjoyed tournaments and feats and didn't care much about monogamy, becaming the mistress of a merchant prince. 

This personality seems to fit nicely with Robert's own tastes.

[James Steller]

4 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Mostly because we know for sure that she wasn't married, this cannot be said about the others, but she is also described as beautiful, she enjoyed tournaments and feats and didn't care much about monogamy, becaming the mistress of a merchant prince. 

This personality seems to fit nicely with Robert's own tastes.

I agree. Lynesse Hightower would have been an ideal choice. A Hightower as queen would remind the Tyrells that they can be replaced, so there’s no need for Stannis to marry Selyse Florent either.

[John Suburbs]

2 hours ago, James Steller said:

I agree. Lynesse Hightower would have been an ideal choice. A Hightower as queen would remind the Tyrells that they can be replaced, so there’s no need for Stannis to marry Selyse Florent either.

 

On 12/21/2019 at 10:54 PM, Arthur Peres said:

Lysenne Hightower comes to mind.

The problem with this is the Hightowers are bannermen to the Tyrells, which makes them loyalists. Tywin was late coming to Robert's cause, but Aerys might not have fallen without him, so it would have been a huge slap in the face not to wed Cersei and would have produced a rift in the realm at a time when the dynasty was barely on its feet.

Also, at this time, Lynesse was, what, 10? 12 maybe?

Cersei was the only maid of suitable standing and the right age. 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

22 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

The problem with this is the Hightowers are bannermen to the Tyrells, which makes them loyalists. Tywin was late coming to Robert's cause, but Aerys might not have fallen without him, so it would have been a huge slap in the face not to wed Cersei and would have produced a rift in the realm at a time when the dynasty was barely on its feet.

Also, at this time, Lynesse was, what, 10? 12 maybe?

Cersei was the only maid of suitable standing and the right age. 

Lynesse definitely wasn't an appropriate age for Robert given his proclivities. And agreed, Cersei is pretty much the only verifiably single woman of an appropriate age. Arianne Martell is another option but we know why that wouldn't happen. The only other woman I can think of who is highborn and single at the time is Lady Dustin and she was recently widowed.

[frenin]

55 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

The problem with this is the Hightowers are bannermen to the Tyrells, which makes them loyalists. Tywin was late coming to Robert's cause, but Aerys might not have fallen without him, so it would have been a huge slap in the face not to wed Cersei and would have produced a rift in the realm at a time when the dynasty was barely on its feet.

Also, at this time, Lynesse was, what, 10? 12 maybe?

Cersei was the only maid of suitable standing and the right age. 

The more reason to tie them to Robert,  the more loyalist the rebes could tie to him the better and it's not like Tywin had Robert's hand in mind when he made his move. Robert needed to marry his House with the Hightowers imo, which is why i found odd the Florent match.

Malora Hightower is a much better option than Lynesse imo, the problem here being that we're only told about

[Arthur Peres]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

 

The problem with this is the Hightowers are bannermen to the Tyrells, which makes them loyalists. Tywin was late coming to Robert's cause, but Aerys might not have fallen without him, so it would have been a huge slap in the face not to wed Cersei and would have produced a rift in the realm at a time when the dynasty was barely on its feet.

 Also, at this time, Lynesse was, what, 10? 12 maybe?

Cersei was the only maid of suitable standing and the right age. 

 

Tywin tied himself to Robert when he butchered the Targeryan family, it was a point of no return so Robert does not need to repay him anything, Tywin came later than Walder to Robert...

The fact that the Hightowers are vassals of the Tyrells does not mean much, like we saw during the dance and the blackfyre rebellion they took diferent sides from their liege, they are wealth like the Lannisters and their support would weaken even more the support for the dragons.

[Arthur Peres]

47 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Lynesse definitely wasn't an appropriate age for Robert given his proclivities. And agreed, Cersei is pretty much the only verifiably single woman of an appropriate age. Arianne Martell is another option but we know why that wouldn't happen. The only other woman I can think of who is highborn and single at the time is Lady Dustin and she was recently widowed.

Robert could always wait a few years before marrying himself, and given that he was the best match at that point, he should have waited. Lynesse was 10 by the end of the rebellion, if Robert waited 6 years he would be fine, the Tyrells considered Margeary for him and the age gap is much larger.

 

23 minutes ago, frenin said:

 Malora Hightower is a much better option than Lynesse imo, the problem here being that we're only told about

If the goal is to avoid a Cersei 2.0 better not go with someone know as "Mad Maid". If Leyla and Alyssane aren't married yet they could also be a option, but Lynesse personality at least for me, fits well with Robert behaviour.

[frenin]

17 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

If the goal is to avoid a Cersei 2.0 better not go with someone know as "Mad Maid". If Leyla and Alyssane aren't married yet they could also be a option, but Lynesse personality at least for me, fits well with Robert behaviour.

As long as she doesn't have sex with her twin brother everything would be fine,  Malora is called the mad mai now, we don't know how she was 15 years before and as far as i know she was the only maien Hightower 

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

Robert could always wait a few years before marrying himself, and given that he was the best match at that point, he should have waited. Lynesse was 10 by the end of the rebellion, if Robert waited 6 years he would be fine, the Tyrells considered Margeary for him and the age gap is much larger.

 

Right if he was willing to wait, there were plenty of options. However given how he came into his thrown he needed to consolidate his power relatively quickly. Marrying Cersei was the "best" way to do it. If something had happened to Robert in the intervening years before he had a child, Stannis would have become king and the realm would have not been happy about it.

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Robert could always wait a few years before marrying himself, and given that he was the best match at that point, he should have waited. Lynesse was 10 by the end of the rebellion, if Robert waited 6 years he would be fine, the Tyrells considered Margeary for him and the age gap is much larger.

 

If the goal is to avoid a Cersei 2.0 better not go with someone know as "Mad Maid". If Leyla and Alyssane aren't married yet they could also be a option, but Lynesse personality at least for me, fits well with Robert behaviour.

Surely this is an argument against the marriage seeing as Robert managed to beggar the realm without a wife who demanded so great a price as Lynesse seems to of Jorah. Because you just know that whatever she asks for Robert is going to give, treasury accounts be damned

[Endymion I Targaryen]

After reading ASOIAF I think the best wife is Catelyn Tully. She is proud, honorable,honest, peaceful, clever,cunning plus she has embraced her Tully words : "Family, duty, honor". It would be easier for Robert to love her and although he wouldn't stop sleeping around, Catelyn would have stayed loyal to her royal duty: raising the king's children. 

If Hoster married Lysa to Jon and has Catelyn unmarried for the rest of the war, i think she would have been prefered than Cersei. Hoster was one of the first to declare for Robert. Cersei would get Ned or Stannis.

[Arthur Peres]

4 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Surely this is an argument against the marriage seeing as Robert managed to beggar the realm without a wife who demanded so great a price as Lynesse seems to of Jorah. Because you just know that whatever she asks for Robert is going to give, treasury accounts be damned

I honestly feel that the realm going bankrupt is part on Littlefinger dealing with the finances, Tyrion not understanding the book with the acounts, the prison Jaime visits having more guards than prisoners and LF being very wealth while the realm goes broke kind of show this.

Lysnesse was too much to handle for Jorah, a lord of the poor bear island, and he dealed with it for years, Robert would be much more wealth, and Cersei probably spended just as much as Lynesse.

[Arthur Peres]

2 hours ago, Endymion I Targaryen said:

 If Hoster married Lysa to Jon and has Catelyn unmarried for the rest of the war, i think she would have been prefered than Cersei. Hoster was one of the first to declare for Robert. Cersei would get Ned or Stannis.

Stannis and Cersei would be a match made in hell that I would love to read about their dynamics, seems like the plot of a dark comedy.

[John Suburbs]

9 hours ago, frenin said:

The more reason to tie them to Robert,  the more loyalist the rebes could tie to him the better and it's not like Tywin had Robert's hand in mind when he made his move. Robert needed to marry his House with the Hightowers imo, which is why i found odd the Florent match.

Malora Hightower is a much better option than Lynesse imo, the problem here being that we're only told about

No. When your enemy bends the knee, you let them keep their heads and even restore them to their original titles, but you take lands and/or children as punishment and to ensure future loyalty. You don't raise their daughters to be queen over the daughters of loyal bannermen who supported your cause. This is how it went for Balon Greyjoy, Jonos Bracken, Tytos Blackwater, Edmure Tully and too many other defeated rebels to count.

So no Tyrells, no Hightowers, no Redwynes -- it had to have been a Stark, Arryn, Tully or Lannister, only one of which had a viable candidate.

A Florent for Stannis was actually a pretty good move. It raised the Florents in comparison to other Reach houses and peeled some support away from Highgarden in the bargain. It was a calculated move to weaken those who still considered Robert a usurper.

[John Suburbs]

9 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Tywin tied himself to Robert when he butchered the Targeryan family, it was a point of no return so Robert does not need to repay him anything, Tywin came later than Walder to Robert...

The fact that the Hightowers are vassals of the Tyrells does not mean much, like we saw during the dance and the blackfyre rebellion they took diferent sides from their liege, they are wealth like the Lannisters and their support would weaken even more the support for the dragons.

Yes, Tywin made up for his lateness by taking the city for Robert and removing the future re-claimants to the throne. That kind of support should be rewarded. If there was an Arryn, Stark or Tully daughter, Robert could have gone with one of them, but there wasn't. Choosing a Hightower or any other loyalist daughter over Cersei would have all but crippled Robert's reign before it even started. At minimum, Tywin would have packed up has army and gone home -- the only intact army on the rebel's side at this point -- opening him up to attack by either Highgarden or Sunspear or both, and perhaps Casterly Rock if Tywin was in a real wroth.

Being vassals to the Tyrells means everything. The Hightowers did not take different sides from their liege; they supported both House Tyrell and the Iron Throne. There wealth is immaterial because now that they have accepted the new king's peace, a portion of that wealth belongs to Robert regardless of who his queen is.

There is no upside for Robert marrying a Hightower, only a potentially huge downside. There is no downside to marrying Cersei (other than Cersei herself, but he doesn't even have to see her if he doesn't want to) and a huge upside by bringing stability to an unstable realm.

[frenin]

5 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

No. When your enemy bends the knee, you let them keep their heads and even restore them to their original titles, but you take lands and/or children as punishment and to ensure future loyalty. You don't raise their daughters to be queen over the daughters of loyal bannermen who supported your cause. This is how it went for Balon Greyjoy, Jonos Bracken, Tytos Blackwater, Edmure Tully and too many other defeated rebels to count.

So no Tyrells, no Hightowers, no Redwynes -- it had to have been a Stark, Arryn, Tully or Lannister, only one of which had a viable candidate.

A Florent for Stannis was actually a pretty good move. It raised the Florents in comparison to other Reach houses and peeled some support away from Highgarden in the bargain. It was a calculated move to weaken those who still considered Robert a usurper.

You do, especially when you want to make sure those men aren't going to support the people you have just overthrown, the examples you've given don't really add up, not only the context is very different but the Reach are simply too powerful to be just dismissed and just their support meant that the Targs had a very strong powerbase,  taking the Hightowers from them, practically destroys every chance of a future rebellion, since there can be a rebellion against Robert without the Reach and every Reach lord would think thrice before running to a Targ knowing where the power of Olftown stood.

The only reason Tywin would get to be first would before the Sack, when the rebels needed to know where he stood. 

 

9 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

At minimum, Tywin would have packed up has army and gone home -- the only intact army on the rebel's side at this point -- opening him up to attack by either Highgarden or Sunspear or both, and perhaps Casterly Rock if Tywin was in a real wroth.

Why?? Tywin sacked KL with no intention of getting a royal marriage,  only to prove himself a rebel, you're giving him a motivation he himself didn't have.

[James Steller]

12 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Stannis and Cersei would be a match made in hell that I would love to read about their dynamics, seems like the plot of a dark comedy.

I’d be very interested in how that relationship would work. On the one hand, Stannis is a cold man who isn’t great talking to women, and Cersei would have definitely hated that, not would she appreciate his dry wit. Plus he’s not as handsome as Jaime or as skilled at fighting. One the other hand, Stannis wouldn’t be sleeping around or getting drunk like Robert, and he certainly wouldn’t have hit her or whispered another woman’s name in bed. Plus he is also an accomplished general who is just as calculating and shrewd as Tywin, and for a woman with such daddy issues as Cersei, she’d be familiar with a lot of Stannis’ unsmiling manner and disposition. It’s not just me saying that either, Tyrion compares Stannis and Tywin at least once or twice IIRC. Maybe Cersei would have been bizarrely attracted to Stannis? Though she would have hated living on Dragonstone.