Dany's pit stop at Lys

[Falcon2909]

Let's imagine Dany liberates the slaves of Volantis and she's on her way to Pentos by sea. Let's also imagine Jorah is with her. 

Do you think Dany will stop at Lys or Jorah will convince her to stop at Lys?

Jorah's ex-wife Lynesse is in Lys serving as the chief concubine of a merchant prince called Tregar Ormollen. 

Do you think Jorah will have a chat with Lynesse? Possibly something more?

[Vaith]

I hope she does have time to stop at Lys. It is basically Yunkai with a pretty coat of paint -- a place where child sex slaves are trained, where slaves are forced to breed "beautiful" children. Yet it has managed to claim to be some beautiful paradise because it has nice gardens and silver-haired people.

I don't think she has enough time, to be honest, but setting things right there would be pretty cool. I'm not sure if anything much would happen between Jorah and his estranged wife, though.

[Darth Sidious]

1 hour ago, Falcon2909 said:

Do you think Dany will stop at Lys or Jorah will convince her to stop at Lys?

No.  I do not think the Targaryen forces will stop at Lys.  There is no need to take the fleet to Lys for one man to see his ex-misses.  Jorah can go to Lys on his own.  The Lyseni will have their hands full when refugees from Westeros start making their way across the Narrow Sea.  They don't have time to entertain and play host to an armada.  

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

Jorah has moved on.  He has other things on his mind now.  There is no purpose in this visit.  Lynesse is not interested in fighting slavery.  I would not think she has any interest in the politics of the 7 kingdoms.  It is Tyrion who still holds feelings for his old love. 

[Tyrion1991]

8 hours ago, Falcon2909 said:

Let's imagine Dany liberates the slaves of Volantis and she's on her way to Pentos by sea. Let's also imagine Jorah is with her. 

Do you think Dany will stop at Lys or Jorah will convince her to stop at Lys?

Jorah's ex-wife Lynesse is in Lys serving as the chief concubine of a merchant prince called Tregar Ormollen. 

Do you think Jorah will have a chat with Lynesse? Possibly something more?

 

Thank you for giving me license to talk about this. 

Well, she’s meant to be this stunningly beautiful blonde woman from the most powerful family in Westeros and even the merchant princes wife lives in fear of her. You even have a name which is clearly Lioness with a few words changed. “She sounds like an interesting woman”, to quote Dany.

I think Sam Last Wish Tarly being in Oldtown and Jorah being married to a Hightower seems like a very convenient coincidence. 

The how is pretty clear. Sams W route to Oldtown learns that one of the Hightower brothers is en route to “that whore of a sister” to get ships. Now, you have a powerful house struggling to deal with ships and they’re actively looking for allies in Essos rather than to the Crown. It’s not a huge leap that they would go ask, for example, the girl with all the dragons to come help them. Especially after Euron tried to steal them.

Plus, from Volantis it seems to be common knowledge that Jorah was with Dany. So perhaps Lynesse can use that as a way in to Danys court. If she’s, a competent younger Cersei as is implied then she’ll try to do that.

Theres three situations I can envisage because we don’t know when people are meeting up if at all:

Dany on her own:

This is straight forward and pure politics. Lynesse will ask for help for her family. I imagine there would be some discussion about Jorah here possibly. Maybe Dany is curious about why she abandoned him or why she married him in the first place. Lynesse might be curious about this. I think it’s an extreme. Either they’ll be best friends and she’ll try to set herself up as some kind of quasi mother figure to her. Mirroring Jorah. Although I am slipping into the Witcher here a little. Or, they’ll despise eachother. She’s a apparently if we believe the She Bears a very vain woman. She might also hold it against Lynesse for having left Jorah. I could imagine her becoming a notable female presence in Danys council.

Basically she’s a convenient bridge to introduce Dany into the conflict at Oldtown.

Dany and Jorah:

Now, I could do a whole topic on just how these two do or do not resolve things. I don’t think you can separate this from how this might play out with Lynesse. Let’s just assume that they’re reunited but more distant than they were. I am not convinced they will reunite until the final book FYI. But if this happens then he is a way for her to get into Danys inner circle. Suddenly, Jorah is a catch again. So she might try to seduce Jorah. You could do a lot of funny character bits, think role swapping how Jorah didn’t like her swooning for Dario. Pointing out how that woman is bad news. But, from his POV, Dany doesn’t want to be with him and surely showing that he’s moved on could only be a good thing? My pet theory on this is that it might be connected to Jorah being branded. Perhaps Dany is not going to be visibly sympathetic (formal court) or maybe not even know about it allowing Lynesse to swoop in and be all “my bear what have they done to your face”. itAlternatively, you have it where Lynesse and Dany form the anti Jorah club and start poking fun at him.

Jorah/Tyrion on his own:

Now this ones a wildcard. Let’s assume Dany and Tyrion have not met. They’ll make their way with what forces they have. Dany can go overland to Pentos. They would be going by sea. It could be that Lynesse uses her influence with Jorah to divert these forces to Oldtown. This would ostensibly be in Danys name but almost a third party. I think this makes some sense since Tyrion wants the Rock. Vic wants Euron dead. 

I think with Jorah. You’ve got to think that he’s a character torn between love and duty. Leaving aside the duty to his family which he may not know about. He does have a duty to Dany as his Queen. However the conflict isn’t apparent because he also loves her. So if you introduce a seductress type character to lure him away from the path. Which very much feels like a Hightower thing. The irony being of course that, you know, it’s his wife. It’s almost a reverse Iliad where it’s a bad thing to come back to your wife and take out the trash.

Plus, Lynesse being physically a copy if not more beautiful than Dany (something she’s not encountered before) would be a good way to answer the question of if Jorah cares about Dany for who she is or what she looks like. If he runs off with silver tongued Lynesse then he’s only acting out of lust. If he decides to still help Dany then he’s choosing his duty to Dany over potentially rekindling what was an intoxicating relationship. 

My only worry is that George will make cuts and not do anything with the Hightower’s. Jorah simply learns about his Dad being dead and wanders off to the wall. Fading from the story. Thus choosing his duty to home over his love for Dany. Which is boring because you could do a lot of fun drama stuff with Lynesse and House Hightower. Because he’s already left Dany I can’t see how she could see that as a betrayal or how her not forgiving him could play into the story. 

 

 

 

[Lollygag]

I don't think we'll see Lys just for lack of time. I'm more inclined to think we'll see Valyria and get a pit stop in Braavos with Dany getting some sort of relationship with the IB going and Aegon I did the same.

I do think it's possible that we'll see Lynesse again. She's a Hightower and it seems like they'll factor prominently in the next books, at least much more so than they have up to this point. I'm convinced that her mother is a Lannister. She's the only non-Lannister character described as having spun-gold hair, she met Jorah at the Lannisport tourney, her name sounds like Lioness, and she has that money/whore thing so common to Lannisters. Jorah is a symbolic Lannister in that he fell so hard for a whore. And then their relationship centered around gold, or the lack thereof. She's also risen to a position of power in herself. There's a lot of openings to enter the story in the next books, but in Westeros. I can also see her enter the story through Arya's storyline which seems to veering into dealing with courtesans.

We have this passage about Lannisters in the North and how it doesn't always work out well in parallel to the Jorah/Lynesse situation.

AGOT Eddard I

By then the others were dismounting as well, and grooms were coming forward for their mounts. Robert's queen, Cersei Lannister, entered on foot with her younger children. The wheelhouse in which they had ridden, a huge double-decked carriage of oiled oak and gilded metal pulled by forty heavy draft horses, was too wide to pass through the castle gate.

[Tyrion1991]

8 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I don't think we'll see Lys just for lack of time. I'm more inclined to think we'll see Valyria and get a pit stop in Braavos with Dany getting some sort of relationship with the IB going and Aegon I did the same.

I do think it's possible that we'll see Lynesse again. She's a Hightower and it seems like they'll factor prominently in the next books, at least much more so than they have up to this point. I'm convinced that her mother is a Lannister. She's the only non-Lannister character described as having spun-gold hair, she met Jorah at the Lannisport tourney, her name sounds like Lioness, and she has that money/whore thing so common to Lannisters. Jorah is a symbolic Lannister in that he fell so hard for a whore. And then their relationship centered around gold, or the lack thereof. She's also risen to a position of power in herself. There's a lot of openings to enter the story in the next books, but in Westeros. I can also see her enter the story through Arya's storyline which seems to veering into dealing with courtesans.

We have this passage about Lannisters in the North and how it doesn't always work out well in parallel to the Jorah/Lynesse situation.

AGOT Eddard I

By then the others were dismounting as well, and grooms were coming forward for their mounts. Robert's queen, Cersei Lannister, entered on foot with her younger children. The wheelhouse in which they had ridden, a huge double-decked carriage of oiled oak and gilded metal pulled by forty heavy draft horses, was too wide to pass through the castle gate.

 

I think silver gold hair is a Hightower thing.   Sansa meets a Hightower in Storm of Swords and describes her as basically having Danys hair. Yes that Ian her sister but hair colour seems to go by House in the series.

Yeah. Time is the only issue. It would be very tempting for George to simplify things. Euron destroys Oldtown and Sam gets what he needs. Then Jorah takes the black and Dany never meets Lynesse.

Like I think it would be very interesting conversation between Dany n Lynesse. Especially if George wants to bring that Dance with Dragons animosity into it. 

[Vaith]

Alerie Hightower's silver hair could very well just be a poetic way of saying "grey hair", not saying that all Hightowers have Valyrian features based off that.

I find that a "Dance of the Dragons animosity" would be extremely unlikely. 170 years have passed and the event is well past living memory.

[Tyrion1991]

5 hours ago, Vaith said:

Alerie Hightower's silver hair could very well just be a poetic way of saying "grey hair", not saying that all Hightowers have Valyrian features based off that.

I find that a "Dance of the Dragons animosity" would be extremely unlikely. 170 years have passed and the event is well past living memory.

But that’s boring. I mean my pet theory is that they’re actually a more ancient and noble line than the Targaryens (maybe descended from AA), which is why they have been involved in many plots against the Targaryens. 

But More in the sense of history repeating itself. Danys own view in Clash is that the Hightower’s were loyal to her family; with Gerold Hightower on the Kingsguard.

 I mean, blacks and greens does match the colours of Targaryen and Mormont. Who she happens to be married to. They could be friends. I might be totally off.

Again I find it fascinating because it could go a few different ways. Dany hasn’t really had to deal with another woman on the team who isn’t a servant and the Green Grace isn’t truly within the inner circle. Plus there’s the personal link with her being Jorahs wife. Who gets mentioned an awful lot in the story, pops up in Jon, Catelyn, Sam, Tyrion and obviously Dany chapters. So George has reminded us of this character and it would be pretty easy to introduce her; if the Oldtown plot goes somewhere.

It wouldn’t surprise me if she was introduced like Cleopatra. Clandestine meeting with Daenerys to make an alliance. She is basically from Alexandria. 

[frenin]

Since that is where Edric is yes. 

[Vaith]

7 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

But that’s boring. I mean my pet theory is that they’re actually a more ancient and noble line than the Targaryens (maybe descended from AA), which is why they have been involved in many plots against the Targaryens.

"Boring" is realistic. There's nothing in the text to make me consider that they are descended from Azor Ahai, nor is it necessary to keep the Hightowers an interesting house: we know they are an ancient First Men house, that they are in league with the Citadel, that the Mad Maid practices magic, so the addition of "those First Men were actually some other important people" doesn't do anything but make their origin more complicated than it is right now.

I would not say that they have been involved in many plots in recent history. The Peakes have been a pretty rebellious house, and their last act of defiance was more recent, yet I doubt we will see anything significant happen at Starpike.

24 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

But More in the sense of history repeating itself. Danys own view in Clash is that the Hightower’s were loyal to her family; with Gerold Hightower on the Kingsguard.

 I mean, blacks and greens does match the colours of Targaryen and Mormont. Who she happens to be married to. They could be friends. I might be totally off.

Again I find it fascinating because it could go a few different ways. Dany hasn’t really had to deal with another woman on the team who isn’t a servant and the Green Grace isn’t truly within the inner circle. Plus there’s the personal link with her being Jorahs wife. Who gets mentioned an awful lot in the story, pops up in Jon, Catelyn, Sam, Tyrion and obviously Dany chapters. So George has reminded us of this character and it would be pretty easy to introduce her; if the Oldtown plot goes somewhere.

It wouldn’t surprise me if she was introduced like Cleopatra. Clandestine meeting with Daenerys to make an alliance. She is basically from Alexandria. 

In the years after the Dance, the Targaryens didn't really see themselves as "the Blacks", though. I mean they still follow the official record of Rhaenyra not being an official monarch while Aegon II is. So I am not sure Dany would grow angry about something nearly 2 centuries ago.

Lynesse doesn't seem the type to be into these grand conspiracies, either. She's a woman who seems to like luxurious stuff, not a scholar like her elder sister. 

I don't actually remember her being mentioned by name in Jon and Sam's chapters; Tyrion and Dany were talking to Jorah directly so his personal life cropped up, and Catelyn was talking to Maege, and the point is a parallel/contrast between Lynesse's place at Bear Island and Catelyn's place at Winterfell.

16 minutes ago, frenin said:

Since that is where Edric is yes. 

Not sure if that's reason enough for Dany to go, and Edric might just show up again when the plot requires it.

[Lollygag]

12 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 

I think silver gold hair is a Hightower thing.   Sansa meets a Hightower in Storm of Swords and describes her as basically having Danys hair. Yes that Ian her sister but hair colour seems to go by House in the series.

Yeah. Time is the only issue. It would be very tempting for George to simplify things. Euron destroys Oldtown and Sam gets what he needs. Then Jorah takes the black and Dany never meets Lynesse.

Like I think it would be very interesting conversation between Dany n Lynesse. Especially if George wants to bring that Dance with Dragons animosity into it. 

Lynesses' hair is specifically described as "spun gold", not silver gold in the books. Only Lannisters outside of Lynesse get that description.

ASOS Cateylyn V

"My nephew Jorah brought home a proper lady once," said Lady Maege. "He won her in a tourney. How she hated that carving."

"Aye, and all the rest," said Dacey. "She had hair like spun gold, that Lynesse. Skin like cream. But her soft hands were never made for axes."

[frenin]

5 hours ago, Vaith said:

Not sure if that's reason enough for Dany to go, and Edric might just show up again when the plot requires it.

I think it is tho, there is a reason why he was sent there. 

[Lord Varys]

Lys and Tyrosh and Myr all have to be crushed to destroy slavery. In Volantis chances are good that a revolt by the slaves themselves might be successful, but in the Three Daughters there are fewer slaves on every free person, and they do not rely on slave soldiers but have their own standing military as well as sellswords from the free companies. They could use both to crush any attempts of the slaves to free themselves and overthrow the old order.

Not to mention that all three cities will fear that Dany and her people will come to free the slaves in their lands, meaning they will decide to attack her. Even if she wanted to ignore them she most likely won't be able to.

Lys especially isn't just a place where Lynesse Hightower hangs out but also the place where Edric Storm and his protectors hide. Not to mention that it is the home of Salladhor Saan. Those are all plot threads that won't be just left hanging forever.

[The Grey Wolf]

@Lord Varys

Doesn't TWOIAF say that the ratio is lower than in Volantis but that slaves still outnumber freemen?

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Lys especially isn't just a place where Lynesse Hightower hangs out but also the place where Edric Storm and his protectors hide. Not to mention that it is the home of Salladhor Saan. Those are all plot threads that won't be just left hanging forever.

For this reason alone, Dany will most likely stop at Lys.

Also, let's not forget that Lys has become involved in certain events. Sallador Saan was hired by Stannis and is now hiding in the Stepstones. Lyseni slavers are in the way to Harthome to catch some wildings. The Hightowers are trying to hire some Lyseni sellsails to fight Euron forces. Yes, Lys will burn.

 

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@Lord Varys

Doesn't TWOIAF say that the ratio is lower than in Volantis but that slaves still outnumber freemen?

It is 3:1, not 5:1 as in Volantis. But Volantis will have its revolution first, and one imagines the Three Daughters then react the way the European powers did after the French Revolution and do anything in their power to prevent 'the disease of liberty to spread'.

Keep in mind FaB gave us a rather interesting view of the inner machinations of Lys with all the offices we heard mentioned (the gonfaloniere, for instance). We do know they have their own military of free men and they have sellsails and sellswords. Unlike Volantis - who are at the mercy of the slave soldiers - the people of the Three Daughters are not.

45 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

For this reason alone, Dany will most likely stop at Lys.

Also, let's not forget that Lys has become involved in certain events. Sallador Saan was hired by Stannis and is now hiding in the Stepstones. Lyseni slavers are in the way to Harthome to catch some wildings. The Hightowers are trying to hire some Lyseni sellsails to fight Euron forces. Yes, Lys will burn.

Well, I'm not so sure about it being burned, but rather that it might be defeated and sacked. I imagine Euron forging a great coalition with the Three Daughters assembling a huge armada to challenge Daenerys. After their sea battle the power of the Three Daughters will be broken and slavery will be abolished.