Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
James Steller

Who else could Stannis have married?

Recommended Posts

I posted earlier that I wish Stannis had been married to someone other than Selyse Florent. But then that made me wonder who was an available bride-to-be at the time. I know the wedding happened in 286 or 287, but I can’t remember everyone who would have been eligible to marry the younger brother of the king and Master of Ships (I bring that up to point out his status as a bachelor, I doubt he’d be ignored as an option). 
 

Lynesse Hightower would have likely been old enough to marry Stannis in 286/287. There’s also Jonelle Cerwyn, Dacey Mormont, Shiera Crakehall, anyone else? Surely there was a better option than the daughter of a minor branch of House Florent...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of women would have been availabe, inside and outside Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, James Steller said:

I posted earlier that I wish Stannis had been married to someone other than Selyse Florent. But then that made me wonder who was an available bride-to-be at the time. I know the wedding happened in 286 or 287, but I can’t remember everyone who would have been eligible to marry the younger brother of the king and Master of Ships (I bring that up to point out his status as a bachelor, I doubt he’d be ignored as an option). 
 

Lynesse Hightower would have likely been old enough to marry Stannis in 286/287. There’s also Jonelle Cerwyn, Dacey Mormont, Shiera Crakehall, anyone else? Surely there was a better option than the daughter of a minor branch of House Florent...

This doesn't make sense. If Stannis was married in 286/287, he would have been old enough to choose a bride for himself. Why would you assume that it was out of his control?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

This doesn't make sense. If Stannis was married in 286/287, he would have been old enough to choose a bride for himself. Why would you assume that it was out of his control?

You cannot convince me that Stannis would have chosen Selyse Florent as a bride. Stannis can’t stand her, and even for a man who is nervous around women, he seems incredibly hostile towards her. I wouldn’t be surprised if Robert and Jon Arryn basically persuaded Stannis to marry Selyse as a matter of duty to the realm. Robert then adds insult to injury by drunkenly ruining his brother’s marriage bed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There weren't many brides available that we know of, so unless we go for child brides...

I don't know why no one ever attempted, read as force, having blood ties with the Hightowers. Stannis marriage is just a naked threat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frenin said:

There weren't many brides available that we know of, so unless we go for child brides...

I don't know why no one ever attempted, read as force, having blood ties with the Hightowers. Stannis marriage is just a naked threat.

House Hightower had a daughter that Stannis could have married. Lynesse would have been a woman by Westerosi standards, and she’d have appreciated being at King’s Landing with Stannis. Or maybe she gets sick of his introverted nature and his gloomy seat at Dragonstone. 
Frankly, Stannis and Lynesse would have made just as bad of a couple as Jorah and Lynesse, just in a different manner. Shireen wouldn’t exist but someone else might, or more than one, and they’d be caught up in the situation between their parents. But having Stannis marry a Hightower would be good on a political level. Unlike House Florent, the Hightowers are a credible threat to House Tyrell: they used to be kings, they command a large number of troops, and they’re as rich as House Lannister. More rich, in fact, because the Hightowers have a city, a prosperous bank, and the capital of the Andal faith. Throw in a close tie to the ruling house, and House Hightower gets an incredible boost in power and prestige.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, James Steller said:

House Hightower had a daughter that Stannis could have married. Lynesse would have been a woman by Westerosi standards, and she’d have appreciated being at King’s Landing with Stannis. Or maybe she gets sick of his introverted nature and his gloomy seat at Dragonstone. 

Lynesse was still a woman child during the Tourney at Lannisport. She was without doubt a child when Stannis married Selyse. And i don't really know if they would get along well, nor is their happiness interesting to me.

 

Quote

Unlike House Florent, the Hightowers are a credible threat to House Tyrell: they used to be kings, they command a large number of troops, and they’re as rich as House Lannister. More rich, in fact, because the Hightowers have a city, a prosperous bank, and the capital of the Andal faith. Throw in a close tie to the ruling house, and House Hightower gets an incredible boost in power and prestige.

They are the same threat, the Florents have a great claim to Highgarden and they would be supported by the crown.

Marrying a Hightower is not to be considered a threat, but an attempt to make the Tyrells, Baratheons and Hightowers one big family and thus breaking the alledged nest of Targ loyalist in the Reach. 

When Stannis married Selyse, Robert message was far too aggresive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

This doesn't make sense. If Stannis was married in 286/287, he would have been old enough to choose a bride for himself. Why would you assume that it was out of his control?

Stannis is under Robert's rule and usually heads of the Houses choose their family's brides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

If he was just a second son of a lord, his options would have been limited, but as a lord of Dragonstone himself and brother of a king (even his heir for years ), he can have a pick. Problem arrise when it's turns out that there were not a lot of available brides :

  • Most powerfull Reach houses are mostly intermarry between themself. Although, there is Malora Hightower... What? She is from powerful and ancient family, not to mention that Stannis likes crazy girls.
  • Dorne, for obvious reasons, is out.
  • Riverlands... Freys, maybe? Rich and powerful, plus they have a lot of brides to choose from. Even Lannisters gave their own bride to one of them.
  • Crownlands. Lollys Stokeworth, match made in heaven. At least she would give Stannis a few heirs. Also, she isn't more unattractive or stupier then Selyse.
  • Westerlands. Not sure anyone would want to increase influence of Lannisters on the royal family.
  • North. After a war there was a lot of widows, so there is a lot of options. But I can't remember even one.
  • Iron Islands. Hmm.
  • Vale. Maybe one of the nieces of Jon Arryn, which were still available. Perhaps even a widow of Denys Arryn, if she was alive at that point.
  • Stormlands. Probably should have been a priority, Any lord from there would gradly give his daughter for a Baratheon.
Edited by Malgoth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be the Crusader Kings in me talking but I'd wait a few years for Asha Greyjoy.  He doesn't need to marry right away and it will help keep Balon on a tighter leash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One problem when trying to figure this out is that we do not know all wives or adult sisters of lords, so while there are likely more women in Stannis's age range, they haven't been relevant to the story so far.

  • In the North, I suppose there would be Barbrey Dustin, a young widow at that time. But Barrowton might not really be important enough for the king's brother, and I don't know if Barbrey would want to leave the castle that she'd begun to rule, anyway.
  • Asha is indeed a possibility, but there are a few factors stacking against her. She is a child, and the Greyjoys are the most frowned down upon of the great houses. The Greyjoys dallied in the war, so it would neither reward an ally, nor make an alliance with the loyalists who had bent the knee.
  • The only unwed Riverwomen known to be of an age with Stannis are the lesser Frey daughters. Maybe the Fair Maid of Harrenhal was still alive at this time? That'd really be one of the few non-Tully Riverlands houses worth considering. 
  • The only women in the Vale who might be of an age with Stannis are the nameless daughters of Lady Waynwood. Given Harry the Heir's age, it seems that all of Alys Arryn's daughters would have been married off by the war's end.
  • The westerlands probably aren't considering because you're putting all your alliance eggs in the same basket, given Robert's marriage to Cersei.
  • In the Reach, yes, Lynesse Hightower is really the only possible option who hadn't already been married. 
  • In the Stormlands, perhaps Ravella Swann had not wed Lord Smallwood yet. However, that option may be seen as insular and not expanding the new royal house's connections to the whole realm.
  • In Dorne, perhaps Ynys Yronwood would be a suitable possibility.

So the main candidates are Ynys Yronwood, Lynesse Hightower, Selyse Florent or Ravella Swann. 

I am guessing that for whatever reason Robert and his advisors thought an alliance with a Reach house would be the best to mend grievances with the loyalists, but perhaps not add to the problems with the Tyrell-Hightower balance of power, and thus Selyse was chosen, even as a mere niece of a lord.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are Lannisters and Tyrells around a plenty for Stannis, also Hightowers, and most likely plenty of women from cadet branches of the great houses.

While chances are good that Robert chose Selyse for Stannis, we should not discount the possibility that their father brokered the deal and they only went through with it years later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

It might be the Crusader Kings in me talking but I'd wait a few years for Asha Greyjoy.  He doesn't need to marry right away and it will help keep Balon on a tighter leash.

There's something almost Ironborn about that. Marrying your daughter off to the military leader who destroyed your finest fleet. Though given Asha's personality, she would have hated that marriage, given that Stannis wouldn't want her to be anything but a southern lady, and she would probably cheat on him just like Cersei was cheating on Robert. Hopefully the kids would take after their mother, since Stannis wouldn't suspect anything amiss if the kids have black hair. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, James Steller said:

You cannot convince me that Stannis would have chosen Selyse Florent as a bride. Stannis can’t stand her, and even for a man who is nervous around women, he seems incredibly hostile towards her. I wouldn’t be surprised if Robert and Jon Arryn basically persuaded Stannis to marry Selyse as a matter of duty to the realm. Robert then adds insult to injury by drunkenly ruining his brother’s marriage bed. 

To be fair, Stannis seems uncomfortable around women in general. And the moments we see him being hostile towards Selyse is when she tries to get him to sacrifice Edric, or throws herself at his feet and clutches his leg and so on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

To be fair, Stannis seems uncomfortable around women in general. And the moments we see him being hostile towards Selyse is when she tries to get him to sacrifice Edric, or throws herself at his feet and clutches his leg and so on. 

He seems perfectly fine having sex with Melisandre. And don't tell me that it's religious fervour, he doesn't actually believe in any gods. I'm not even a big Stannis fan and I still know that the fans overplay his zealotry big time. Even Mel herself knows that Stannis doesn't actually believe any of it, he's just being a pragmatist, using any advantage that he can find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

He seems perfectly fine having sex with Melisandre. And don't tell me that it's religious fervour, he doesn't actually believe in any gods.

And I won't tell you that, because at it's very core, him banging Mel makes very little sense to me, even if he's trying to use her to his advantage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

And I won't tell you that, because at it's very core, him banging Mel makes very little sense to me, even if he's trying to use her to his advantage. 

Makes perfect sense to me. He's the forgotten, overshadowed brother stuck between the flashy, charismatic Renly and the conquering hero Robert, grinding his teeth while he's living in their shadows with nothing but a dreary home and a loveless marriage. You're telling me that a guy like that wouldn't jump at the chance for a gorgeous sorceress when she claims that he's secretly a hero? That's the part of Stannis that his fans don't like to acknowledge. He's a thirsty, desperate man with a fragile ego. He wants the glory that Robert got. He's done all the right things - winning battles, gaining impressive titles - but nobody likes him. So instead he goes the opposite direction that Robert did, trying to ban prostitutes from King's Landing for "moral" reasons until an attractive woman actually does show him some attention. If Stannis was in our world, we'd be mocking his internet comments and calling him an incel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Makes perfect sense to me. He's the forgotten, overshadowed brother stuck between the flashy, charismatic Renly and the conquering hero Robert, grinding his teeth while he's living in their shadows with nothing but a dreary home and a loveless marriage. You're telling me that a guy like that wouldn't jump at the chance for a gorgeous sorceress when she claims that he's secretly a hero? That's the part of Stannis that his fans don't like to acknowledge. He's a thirsty, desperate man with a fragile ego. He wants the glory that Robert got. He's done all the right things - winning battles, gaining impressive titles - but nobody likes him. So instead he goes the opposite direction that Robert did, trying to ban prostitutes from King's Landing for "moral" reasons until an attractive woman actually does show him some attention. If Stannis was in our world, we'd be mocking his internet comments and calling him an incel.

Wow. I finally found a take on Stannis that’s actually worse than the “religious maniac” angle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Wow. I finally found a take on Stannis that’s actually worse than the “religious maniac” angle.

Well, it's true. Stannis is insanely jealous of his brothers, he was always overshadowed by them and he very much lusts for Meli, even Davos can see the difference in treatment Selyse and Meli get from him.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, frenin said:

Well, it's true. Stannis is insanely jealous of his brothers, he was always overshadowed by them and he very much lusts for Meli, even Davos can see the difference in treatment Selyse and Meli get from him.

 

There’s a difference between stating facts and using them to spin a narrative. It’s clear which one Canon Claude is doing. Stannis is NOT an incel just because he’s a forgotten middle child with an awkward social manner. If anything, Stannis is a progressive by Westerosi standards. How many other leaders in that universe geld their own followers for raping women? This is a world where the queen of the Seven Kingdoms had to make a long argument to her husband in order to remove First Night rights. And for the record, Stannis trying to ban brothels doesn’t necessarily make him an incel. A prude, sure, but I also have a feeling that his animosity with Petyr Baelish was a big motivator for that as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...