Jump to content
Quoth the raven,

Stannis and Roose. Cut from the same cloth.

Recommended Posts

What separates these two men is parchment thin.  Both are cruel and ruthless.  They are both strong, capable battle leaders.  Stannis can keep people just as quietly as Roose can.  They are both extremely harsh to those whom they feel denied them their lord's entitled rights.  Stannis burns while Roose flays.  I say, Stannis beat Aerys in the burn-your-enemies department.  The Boltons flayed people but that custom started because their main rivals were equally vicious skinchangers.  Inflicting mind-breaking pain on the host might reveal who the skinchanger around them is.  The Boltons didn't see the Starks as people but rather like the game they hunted in the forests.  Roose betrayed the Starks but if we look back in history, Stannis betrayed the King of the Seven Kingdoms, Aerys II. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While you draw some interesting conclusions and similarities between Stannis and Roose there is the matter of motive between them.  Stannis really is King where Roose is a treacherous usurper.  Stannis campaigns because it is his duty to the realm (and he's got an certain sibling rivalry axe to grind) where Roose is simply an opportunist, vicious prick.  Stannis is hard and may well prefer beheading to burning for all we know because we do know that he has little faith in R'hllor.  Stannis allows burning to appease the bewitching Melisandre where Roose merely enjoys torture.  Honestly, who throws off comments about the inadequacy of human skin versus animal to his weird child as a means of curtailing said son's desire to kill an ally?  Stannis will kill people because he feels it is a suitable punishment that happens to satisfy 99% of his follower's sacrificial lust.  More of an ends justifying the ends rather than the means, which does seem to be specific to his people's desire.  Stannis performs his husbandly duty to Selyse twice a year begrudgingly where Roose is a violent rapist.  Stannis is a pretty open book and easily read from his cover.  While many know and detest Roose, I wonder how many of his "followers" know about his midday rides through his lands that involve the murder of his own people so he can claim his right to first night.  There is something to be said for alliances each has made.  Those behind Stannis do seem to believe in his claim where Roose' alliances seem dependent upon fear.  

I don't discern any hatred in your post, but I do pick up on some misunderstanding of Stannis as a character.   He isn't likeable and his cause is completely futile as no one wants this guy to be in charge.  But Davos loves him and that speaks well to some closed small portion of his character.  While neither character is a categorically good guy there are levels of wrong in your comparison because they are not cut from the same cloth.  A guy like Stannis wouldn't go down in the annals of history where youtube would be on fire with lurid expose' on someone like Bolton.  

Not that I go in for killing anyone ever for any reason I think it is important to dilineate some rationality to your obvious horror at burning human beings.  In Stannis' camp this is an extension of their worship.  (Yes, I need a shower, too, now).  Aery's burned people because he enjoyed the exercise.   It's not the same, Friend.  Doesn't make Stannis or his people right, just makes it a different sort of horror.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes skinchangers "vicious?" As opposed to merely having a skill? Isn't that a little like calling blacksmiths "brutal?" Why is skinchanging equally as bad as flaying?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

What makes skinchangers "vicious?" As opposed to merely having a skill? Isn't that a little like calling blacksmiths "brutal?" Why is skinchanging equally as bad as flaying?

 

I'm assuming he means skinchanging humans which we've seen to be brutal for the person being skinchanged

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

I'm assuming he means skinchanging humans which we've seen to be brutal for the person being skinchanged

Right, but again, skinchangers don't all skinchange other humans. Bran doesn't know not too (which isn't an excuse for his actions btw, merely an explanation for them) and Varamyr is an entitled, arrogant sociopath who believes he has the right to invade other people. They aren't the only skinchangers, just the ones who use their skills for the wrong reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Right, but again, skinchangers don't all skinchange other humans. Bran doesn't know not too (which isn't an excuse for his actions btw, merely an explanation for them) and Varamyr is an entitled, arrogant sociopath who believes he has the right to invade other people. They aren't the only skinchangers, just the ones who use their skills for the wrong reasons.

The Starks of old used skin changing to help defeat their enemies.  It would be stupid not to but at the same time it is understandable why the Boltons would consider it a threat which must be dealt with in as brutal of a way.  But yeah, not all of them were strong enough to rape the minds of others but even the ones who skin changed animals were savage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

What separates these two men is parchment thin.  Both are cruel and ruthless.  They are both strong, capable battle leaders.  Stannis can keep people just as quietly as Roose can.  They are both extremely harsh to those whom they feel denied them their lord's entitled rights.  Stannis burns while Roose flays.  I say, Stannis beat Aerys in the burn-your-enemies department.  The Boltons flayed people but that custom started because their main rivals were equally vicious skinchangers.  Inflicting mind-breaking pain on the host might reveal who the skinchanger around them is.  The Boltons didn't see the Starks as people but rather like the game they hunted in the forests.  Roose betrayed the Starks but if we look back in history, Stannis betrayed the King of the Seven Kingdoms, Aerys II. 

It is a thin line.  Roose roasted his own men for cannibalism.  I guess he conveniently forgot that he put them in that desperate situation to start with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2020 at 6:38 PM, Quoth the raven, said:

What separates these two men is parchment thin.  Both are cruel and ruthless.  They are both strong, capable battle leaders.  Stannis can keep people just as quietly as Roose can.  They are both extremely harsh to those whom they feel denied them their lord's entitled rights.  Stannis burns while Roose flays.  I say, Stannis beat Aerys in the burn-your-enemies department.  The Boltons flayed people but that custom started because their main rivals were equally vicious skinchangers.  Inflicting mind-breaking pain on the host might reveal who the skinchanger around them is.  The Boltons didn't see the Starks as people but rather like the game they hunted in the forests.  Roose betrayed the Starks but if we look back in history, Stannis betrayed the King of the Seven Kingdoms, Aerys II. 

I disagree with that and I'd imagine that  nearly everyone in Westeros would as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/22/2020 at 12:38 AM, Quoth the raven, said:

What separates these two men is parchment thin.  Both are cruel and ruthless.  They are both strong, capable battle leaders.  Stannis can keep people just as quietly as Roose can.  They are both extremely harsh to those whom they feel denied them their lord's entitled rights.  Stannis burns while Roose flays.  I say, Stannis beat Aerys in the burn-your-enemies department.  The Boltons flayed people but that custom started because their main rivals were equally vicious skinchangers.  Inflicting mind-breaking pain on the host might reveal who the skinchanger around them is.  The Boltons didn't see the Starks as people but rather like the game they hunted in the forests.  Roose betrayed the Starks but if we look back in history, Stannis betrayed the King of the Seven Kingdoms, Aerys II. 

Stannis isn't cruel:

Quote

No, the old maester thought, this is not you, not your way, you were always just, always hard yet never cruel, never, you did not understand mockery, no more than you understood laughter.

I also doubt that Stannis would propose slitting Selmy's neck when he was wounded at the Trident like Roose did.

Though they are indeed strong, capable leaders and I feel Roose is much greater threat than Ramsy would ever hope to become.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...