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Widowmaker 811

Hatching Dragons

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Posted (edited)

The first attempt of the modern Targaryens to hatch dragons ended in failure. Aegon V died, family, and KG died. No eggs hatched. He had all of the ingredients and failed.

Daenerys successfully hatched her three dragon eggs on the Dothraki Sea.  Her brother, husband, and son died shortly before the dragons arrived.  She was the right chef with the correct ingredients at the right time. Azor Ahai, Dany, was the person fated to bring back the dragons.  This was the third attempt.  
 

I believe there was an attempt between these two events. The third worked. The previous two attempts failed. This second attempt most likely took place at the Tower Of Joy. Rhaegar had an egg.  He tried to hatch the egg and failed.  Edard would have found the egg. A little burnt but still intact.  It’s probably buried with Ser Gerold Hightower.
 

 

Edited by Widowmaker 811

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4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The first attempt of the modern Targaryens to hatch dragons ended in failure. Aegon V died, family, and KG died. No eggs hatched. He had all of the ingredients and failed.

Not sure what purpose the word modern serves, but I can tell you that Aegon V wasn't the first to try to hatch dragons. Targaryens were trying to do it during he reign of Aegon III for a long time, then Baelor tried it too, after him during Aegon IV's reign too. Given how obsessed Aerys I was with his scrolls about prophecies, he might have tried it too.

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Posted (edited)

One little problem with your theory is that there were more than three tries at hatching eggs. Like @Daeron the Daring said, Aegon III tried, Baelor tried, Aegon IV probably tried, Aerys might've tried, and then you have the TaS. Oh, and the Mad King was obsessed with it too.

6 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Targaryens were trying to do it during he reign of Aegon III for a long time

Before that too, with Aegon II's purple and gold turd, as Mushroom colorfully puts it. And six others, of course. And Rhaenyra was probably going to try hatching an egg or three.

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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I can definately see Rheagar leaving an egg at the Tower of Joy. He probably wouldn't have burned it, though. The Targaryens used to leave eggs with their infants in hopes that they would hatch and they'd have a new rider, so Rheagar may have hoped to do the same for baby Jon when he was borne. Then Ned finds the egg, and takes it North with him and buries it with Lyanna.

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18 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The first attempt of the modern Targaryens to hatch dragons ended in failure. Aegon V died, family, and KG died. No eggs hatched. He had all of the ingredients and failed.

Daenerys successfully hatched her three dragon eggs on the Dothraki Sea.  Her brother, husband, and son died shortly before the dragons arrived.  She was the right chef with the correct ingredients at the right time. Azor Ahai, Dany, was the person fated to bring back the dragons.  This was the third attempt.  
 

I believe there was an attempt between these two events. The third worked. The previous two attempts failed. This second attempt most likely took place at the Tower Of Joy. Rhaegar had an egg.  He tried to hatch the egg and failed.  Edard would have found the egg. A little burnt but still intact.  It’s probably buried with Ser Gerold Hightower.
 

 

The bottom line, the eggs did not hatch for Egg and Rhaegar because they are not Azor Ahai.  They hatched for Dany because she is Azor Ahai.  I don't know if the other stuff even mattered.  

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We actually have pretty good reason to believe that Rhaegar Targaryen didn't have a dragon egg. Aerys II tried to hatch dragon eggs after Duskendale. It failed, but he had to look for dragon eggs on Dragonstone and could only find eggs so old they had already turned to stone. That doesn't indicate he or his son had any cradle eggs left.

In fact, one imagines that if Aerys II and Rhaella had cradle eggs they were destroyed at Summerhall with the seven eggs Aegon V tried to hatch ... just as the egg they intended to give to Rhaegar might have been.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In fact, one imagines that if Aerys II and Rhaella had cradle eggs they were destroyed at Summerhall with the seven eggs Aegon V tried to hatch ... just as the egg they intended to give to Rhaegar might have been.

Not sure if the fire at Sumerhall was hot enough to melt dragoneggs turned into stone. They might still be there somewhere. It might not matter anymore, tho.

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23 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Not sure if the fire at Sumerhall was hot enough to melt dragoneggs turned into stone. They might still be there somewhere. It might not matter anymore, tho.

I'd expect they cracked not that they melted - either by the heat of the wildfire or by the collapsing Summerhall palace.

In any case, I expect those dragon eggs were lost. If they weren't lost then Viserys III and Daenerys would have had dragon eggs of their own. In fact, they could have taken their eggs plus their mother's egg with them into exile. Even more importantly, Robert and his brothers would also have had dragon eggs among the treasures he captured when his forces took KL and Dragonstone.

There might still some dragon eggs on Dragonstone somewhere, hidden in some forgotten caverns and stuff - but Stannis and Mel seemed to have looked nearly everywhere, so any remaining eggs must have been hidden very well.

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10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd expect they cracked not that they melted - either by the heat of the wildfire or by the collapsing Summerhall palace.

In any case, I expect those dragon eggs were lost. If they weren't lost then Viserys III and Daenerys would have had dragon eggs of their own. In fact, they could have taken their eggs plus their mother's egg with them into exile. Even more importantly, Robert and his brothers would also have had dragon eggs among the treasures he captured when his forces took KL and Dragonstone.

There might still some dragon eggs on Dragonstone somewhere, hidden in some forgotten caverns and stuff - but Stannis and Mel seemed to have looked nearly everywhere, so any remaining eggs must have been hidden very well.

Yea, it might be that they cracked due to the collapsing. If not, they might still be somewhere where people were unable to find them. Either way, they are either lost, broken or stolen, which, as I said before, might not even matter since we have living dragons.

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On 4/14/2021 at 5:14 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Such a nice theory. With all those text clues is not a surprise how well supported it is.

Such salt! I love it!

 

Actually on the subject of hatching dragons from fossilised eggs, one thing that set Dany apart from all the Targaryens and sorcerers that tried before is that she was a woman. And more, a pregnant women  - she only began to feel heat in the eggs after she conceived. The sacrifice she made to give the life to the dragons was the life of her unborn child - hence why the stillborn baby was described as dead for years.

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3 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said:

The sacrifice she made to give the life to the dragons was the life of her unborn child - hence why the stillborn baby was described as dead for years.

Disagree, the life for life was MMD. In addition, we know that "only death can pay for life". With the extreme heat of wildfire, and all the people getting killed, shouldn't the eggs have hatched?

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1 hour ago, Buried Treasure said:

Actually on the subject of hatching dragons from fossilised eggs, one thing that set Dany apart from all the Targaryens and sorcerers that tried before is that she was a woman. And more, a pregnant women  - she only began to feel heat in the eggs after she conceived. The sacrifice she made to give the life to the dragons was the life of her unborn child - hence why the stillborn baby was described as dead for years.

You know after my most recent pass through Fire and Blood I suspect that the 'blood of the dragon' or the targ gene or what have you is in the female side of the line not the male, I don't even see any evidence that contradicts the theory that Aegon the Conqueror could have even infertile. Rhaenyra's blood was why the Strong's dragons hatched. Laenor or Harwin had nothing to do with it... If you look at the Targ marriages outside of the line - Valeryons, Baratheons, Martels a targ woman was married into that clan and then her daughter was married back into the Targs. Everything got sloppy after the Lysene Spring though. It would be interesting to try and rewrite the whole Targ bloodline matrilinearilly (?) and see what's hidden. 

Anyway, to get back on topic, it wouldn't seem inconsistent if Dany's being a woman was relevant to the rebirth of dragons given that whatever affinity exists between Targaryens and dragons seems to be carried in the Targ women.  

If this is true it may add another layer to Illyrio's 'The Blackfyre's are all dead in the male line' bit since the male line was only carrying the name Blackfyre, not anything essentially Targaryen.

There were 3 dragons hatched, perhaps 3 lives were sacrificed? I count MMD, Rhaego and possibly Dany herself, but I'm still on the fence as to whether or not she died in that fire. In retrospect, she probably shouldn't have snuffed out Drogo and saved him for the sacrifice, but she was operating without instructions and she probably didn't see any value in immolating him alive at the time.  Anyway I'm pretty sure that Dany and the Pyre are another thread or 200 in here somewhere.

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

We actually have pretty good reason to believe that Rhaegar Targaryen didn't have a dragon egg. Aerys II tried to hatch dragon eggs after Duskendale. It failed, but he had to look for dragon eggs on Dragonstone and could only find eggs so old they had already turned to stone. That doesn't indicate he or his son had any cradle eggs left.

In fact, one imagines that if Aerys II and Rhaella had cradle eggs they were destroyed at Summerhall with the seven eggs Aegon V tried to hatch ... just as the egg they intended to give to Rhaegar might have been.

If The Prince that was Promised Prophesy mirrored The Rebirth of Azhor Ahai prophecy, isn't it possible that Rhaegar may have tried to hatch petrified dragon eggs?  

After all since both TPTWP and AA dealt with red stars bleeding, and a rebirth in salt and smoke.  Isn't it possible then that the Prince that was Promised Prophesy also dealt with waking dragons from stone?

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1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

If The Prince that was Promised Prophesy mirrored The Rebirth of Azhor Ahai prophecy, isn't it possible that Rhaegar may have tried to hatch petrified dragon eggs?  

After all since both TPTWP and AA dealt with red stars bleeding, and a rebirth in salt and smoke.  Isn't it possible then that the Prince that was Promised Prophesy also dealt with waking dragons from stone?

A lot of stuff is theoretically possible but what we know indicates Rhaegar didn't even have dragon eggs. So chances for something like that happening are not very high.

If George were to suddenly reveal Aerys II, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Viserys, and Rhaegar's children all had dragon eggs - or some of those people - then this would technically be possible. But so far there is none of that. In fact, Viserys III actually wanting to sell Dany's eggs indicates that he never had a dragon egg of his own and never had the kind of emotional bond to his egg Viserys II developed ... and one imagines many of the later Targaryens also had (like Elaena, Egg, Aerion, etc.).

There is also no indication that Rhaegar was interested in dragons ... instead we hear that his father tried to hatch eggs after Duskendale. At a point in time where father and son were already estranged. So Rhaegar likely had no part in Aerys' attempts to hatch dragon eggs.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

A lot of stuff is theoretically possible but what we know indicates Rhaegar didn't even have dragon eggs. So chances for something like that happening are not very high.

If George were to suddenly reveal Aerys II, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Viserys, and Rhaegar's children all had dragon eggs - or some of those people - then this would technically be possible. But so far there is none of that. In fact, Viserys III actually wanting to sell Dany's eggs indicates that he never had a dragon egg of his own and never had the kind of emotional bond to his egg Viserys II developed ... and one imagines many of the later Targaryens also had (like Elaena, Egg, Aerion, etc.).

There is also no indication that Rhaegar was interested in dragons ... instead we hear that his father tried to hatch eggs after Duskendale. At a point in time where father and son were already estranged. So Rhaegar likely had no part in Aerys' attempts to hatch dragon eggs.

My post was in reply to your original post which I assume came from this passage in the Worldbook:

Quote

In the wake of Duskendale, the king also began to display signs of an ever-increasing obsession with dragonfire, similar to that which had haunted several of his forebears. Lord Darklyn would never have dared defy him if he had been a dragonrider, Aerys reasoned. His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however.

Which means that there were dragon eggs on Dragonstone, some stone, some not.  If Aerys had access to them, I don’t see why Rhaegar, the Prince of Dragonstone would not also have had access to them.

And we can extrapolate from Rhaegar’s interest, perhaps obsession, with Summerhall and the Prince that Was Promised prophecy that Rhaegar probably also had an interest in hatching dragons:

Quote

“It was the shadow of Summerhall that haunted him, was it not?”
“Yes. And yet Summerhall was the place the prince loved best. He would go there from time to time, with only his harp for company. Even the knights of the Kingsguard did not attend him there. He liked to sleep in the ruined hall, beneath the moon and stars, and whenever he came back he would bring a song. When you heard him play his high harp with the silver strings and sing of twilights and tears and the death of kings, you could not but feel that he was singing of himself and those he loved.”

Quote

“This talk of a stone dragon … madness, I tell you, sheer madness. Did we learn nothing from Aerion Brightfire, from the nine mages, from the alchemists? Did we learn nothing from Summerhall? No good has ever come from these dreams of dragons,”

Quote

“No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought … the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet.”

Quote

“The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.”

So assuming that Aemon and Rhaegar shared certain beliefs in how TPTWP prophecy needed to be fulfilled, and assuming that Rhaegar died believing his son to the prince that was promised, then presumably Rhaegar must have believed his son needed dragons.

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12 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

My post was in reply to your original post which I assume came from this passage in the Worldbook:

Which means that there were dragon eggs on Dragonstone, some stone, some not.  If Aerys had access to them, I don’t see why Rhaegar, the Prince of Dragonstone would not also have had access to them.

Rhaegar was the Prince of Dragonstone but until his wedding he lived in KL, not on the island. Aerys II search for dragon eggs on Dragonstone predate Rhaegar's wedding, meaning the eggs Aerys found and experimented on were found and (presumably) moved to KL before Rhaegar had a chance to look for eggs on the island.

12 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

And we can extrapolate from Rhaegar’s interest, perhaps obsession, with Summerhall and the Prince that Was Promised prophecy that Rhaegar probably also had an interest in hatching dragons:

So assuming that Aemon and Rhaegar shared certain beliefs in how TPTWP prophecy needed to be fulfilled, and assuming that Rhaegar died believing his son to the prince that was promised, then presumably Rhaegar must have believed his son needed dragons.

He should have thought about dragons because they apparently feature in the promised prince prophecy. But so far there is no textual evidence that he did think about them ... or even had a dragon egg. I mean, he believed he himself was the prince for a time, yet he apparently never had the means to wake dragons from stone.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Rhaegar was the Prince of Dragonstone but until his wedding he lived in KL, not on the island. Aerys II search for dragon eggs on Dragonstone predate Rhaegar's wedding, meaning the eggs Aerys found and experimented on were found and (presumably) moved to KL before Rhaegar had a chance to look for eggs on the island.

He should have thought about dragons because they apparently feature in the promised prince prophecy. But so far there is no textual evidence that he did think about them ... or even had a dragon egg. I mean, he believed he himself was the prince for a time, yet he apparently never had the means to wake dragons from stone.

It would have been after his wedding when he conceived Aegon, and apparently when the red comet passed overhead.  So presumably he could have had access to dragon eggs.  I mean we're kind of assuming that Aerys exhausted the supply of dragon eggs on the island, and there isn't really any indication of that.

In fact we may learn early on from the end result of Loras' storming of dragonstone what treasures remained.

I think the issue with Rhaegar is he was very secretive.  Even members of the Kingsguard like Barristan was kept at arms length.  So, once again presumably, Rhaegar's secrets may have been kept to a very small circle of friends.  Arthur most probably, and most probably Elia as well.  Outside of that who knows.

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2 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

It would have been after his wedding when he conceived Aegon, and apparently when the red comet passed overhead.  So presumably he could have had access to dragon eggs.  I mean we're kind of assuming that Aerys exhausted the supply of dragon eggs on the island, and there isn't really any indication of that.

There is, by the simple fact that Robert and Joffrey/Tommen do not have dragon eggs ... and neither does Stannis.

If Rhaegar or Aerys II had left any islands in the vaults of the citadel or the Red Keep then Stannis/Mel and Robert's people would have found them after the respective castles fell to the rebels. After all, any eggs given to Rhaegar's children would have been with Elia and the children at the end, no?

And we also do know that Viserys and Dany didn't take any dragon eggs with them into exile.

2 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

In fact we may learn early on from the end result of Loras' storming of dragonstone what treasures remained.

Apparently, nothing. Or rather - whatever remains is so well hidden that nobody found it so far.

 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There is, by the simple fact that Robert and Joffrey/Tommen do not have dragon eggs ... and neither does Stannis.

If Rhaegar or Aerys II had left any islands in the vaults of the citadel or the Red Keep then Stannis/Mel and Robert's people would have found them after the respective castles fell to the rebels. After all, any eggs given to Rhaegar's children would have been with Elia and the children at the end, no?

And we also do know that Viserys and Dany didn't take any dragon eggs with them into exile.

Apparently, nothing. Or rather - whatever remains is so well hidden that nobody found it so far.

 

Unless the whole practice of giving dragon eggs to young Targaryens stopped.  Either because it was fruitless.  Or perhaps because of the events of Summerhall.  It seems like Summerhall was a fairly traumatic event for the Targaryens, and it may have been traumatic enough for the Targaryens to put away their eggs and their dragon dreams.  At least for a time.

My guess is there had to be at least one egg in King's Landing at the time of the Sack.  I think Aerys belief in King's Landing as a funeral pyre with him emerging as a dragon was probably based on more than complete delusion.  I think Aerys believed that lighting up Kings Landing might hatch one of his precious dragons, and perhaps transfer his spirt/consciousness into the dragon.

Edited by Frey family reunion

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