Dogs III - the return of the furbaby thread

[Derfel Cadarn]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

 

Just out of curiosity, how much does a lab retriever puppy eat a day?

If I remember correctly, Loki was having somewhere in 200-250 grams per day.

Dry.

Recommended 500g per day of dry

For wet, 8 pouches. 
That’s minimum

[Which Tyler]

37 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Recommended 500g per day of dry

For wet, 8 pouches. 
That’s minimum

That's insane.
My Nimue is a whole 1 day younger than yours, same size as yours (hell, half the same breed as yours), and is 200g per day!
That's the same for both brands we've got in for her.

Are you sure you're reading it for her current weight, not expected? or reading "170g per day" and thinking it was per meal, so 3x170g?

ETA: I've just checked my bags, they can get up to 500g... once they've reached 12 months and 40kg

FTR: she was on Arden Grange when she came to us, so it's that, and the other is Core Wellness - both far posher than she'll be on once grown.

All brands will publish their recommendations - both on the packet, and online; and you adjust within those recommendations for your pup's actual size and activity level (and whether you can see all the ribs, or you're taking it on trust that ribs exist somewhere, deep down in there).
Can I ask what brand you're using? both wet and dry?

 

ETA2: Just checked what I feed the adult dogs - they get 400-450g per day, and they weight 42 and 39 kg (and obviously, not still growing).

8 pouches seems much more reasonable quantity - mine say 6 for the size of my puppy, so within the margin of error.

 

ETA3: The other thing to mention is that eating that much dry food, will be sucking water out, she'll be needing to drink a tonne of the stuff to get healthy.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Which Tyler

[Ran]

The daily recommendations are guidelines, as well -- you really need to look at your puppy and try to guess if it's looking like a butterball or emaciated and adjust the food amounts accordingly. Purina has a good checklist for how to judge, with some particular notes about puppies.

[Derfel Cadarn]

It’s strange. For the dry, you crossrefer expected adult weight with puppy’s actual age. I’m at vets to weigh her, will ask because i don’t want to over or under feed.

it recommenda 400g a day for a dog expdcted to be approx 20kg, and aged 1-3 months

Edited September 19, 2023 by Derfel Cadarn

[Which Tyler]

Good luck at the vets - hope you get one who knows what they're talking about. Let us know how it goes.

Are you using the same food she was used to before coming to you? If so, were they feeding her 500g too?

Edited September 19, 2023 by Which Tyler

[baxus]

I need to go back and correct the amount Loki used to it. He was around 170-180 grams per day at 6 months or younger. Nowadays, we feed him around 200g per day. The recommended range is insane, 150-250 grams. Probably due to what Ran said, and one size not fitting all.

27 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

it recommenda 400g a day for a dog expdcted to be approx 20kg, and aged 1-3 months

Shouldn't labs grow up to be in 30-40kg range?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I don't think I've ever measured the amount of food I've give my dogs and they've all been healthy. Just basically do want Ran said. 

[Which Tyler]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don't think I've ever measured the amount of food I've give my dogs and they've all been healthy. Just basically do want Ran said. 

Once they've stopped growing, then absolutely; at the 8-week mark though, it's changing all the time.
I don't think I'd ever looked at the recommendations for adults until this today.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Which Tyler

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

God damn it.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4177294-majority-of-us-dog-owners-now-skeptical-of-vaccines-including-for-rabies-study/amp/

Quote

Additionally, 37 percent were concerned that vaccines could cause “cognitive issues” in dogs and may lead them to develop autism, a theory not backed up by scientific evidence.

 

[JGP]

10 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

God damn it.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4177294-majority-of-us-dog-owners-now-skeptical-of-vaccines-including-for-rabies-study/amp/

 

30 to 40 percent seems to be the universal proportion of hapless rubes, anywhere on planet Earth.

Edited September 19, 2023 by JGP

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, JGP said:

30 to 40 percent seems to be the universal proportion of hapless rubes, anywhere on planet Earth.

No. They’re getting dumber.

I’m not a person that looks back with rose coloured glasses. Most people confuse nostalgia for “the good old days” with nostalgia for their youth. Things were simpler back then because *they* were simpler back then. 

This is not that. Use your hypothetical Time Machine to go back to 1990. Go to a dog park and as the dog owners if they’re concerned about vaccines and canine autism. Half of them would slap you silly for mouth words that  confuse and infuriate them. 

[JGP]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

No. They’re getting dumber.

I’m not a person that looks back with rose coloured glasses. Most people confuse nostalgia for “the good old days” with nostalgia for their youth. Things were simpler back then because *they* were simpler back then. 

This is not that. Use your hypothetical Time Machine to go back to 1990. Go to a dog park and as the dog owners if they’re concerned about vaccines and canine autism. Half of them would slap you silly for mouth words that  confuse and infuriate them. 

I wasn't disagreeing re: context, just making a general, more or less obvious observation. :p

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

God damn it.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4177294-majority-of-us-dog-owners-now-skeptical-of-vaccines-including-for-rabies-study/amp/

 

Well, we all know that the next pandemic starts with Paris Hilton's Chihuahua. I mean I always suspected that those talent free c-listers would be the end of mankind. I just didn't mean it literally.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, JGP said:

I wasn't disagreeing re: context, just making a general, more or less obvious observation. :p

No worries. I’m just getting very very intolerant with this anti-vax nonsense. 

[Which Tyler]

9 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It’s strange. For the dry, you crossrefer expected adult weight with puppy’s actual age. I’m at vets to weigh her, will ask because i don’t want to over or under feed.

it recommenda 400g a day for a dog expdcted to be approx 20kg, and aged 1-3 months

How is she?

[Derfel Cadarn]

37 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

How is she?

Took her back to vet and they kept her in for 6 hours to rehydrate her and take blood. Seemed toneat ok there, and they gave a couple tins of dog food designed for upset stomachs. 

She was active enough when i got her home and ate more food. Chilling now next to my leg.

I’ve to take her back to vet on Thurs for check-up (is a wee bit anemic), and to take samples of her stools for next few days.

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Took her back to vet and they kept her in for 6 hours to rehydrate her and take blood. Seemed toneat ok there, and they gave a couple tins of dog food designed for upset stomachs. 

She was active enough when i got her home and ate more food. Chilling now next to my leg.

I’ve to take her back to vet on Thurs for check-up (is a wee bit anemic), and to take samples of her stools for next few days.

Hope you all get t the bottom of it, good luck pup-twin

[Derfel Cadarn]

She’s been more active this morning.

Does anyone have any tips re training her not to bite?

When she’s got a lot of energy and wants to play, she keeps going for hands and feet, mouthing and biting. She’s being ‘playful’ but it’s something I need to put a stop to, especially as we’ve got a 5 year old.

I’ve looked online but the advice I’ve seen (yelp sonshe knows its sore, make hand go limp so she lets go, go away and refuse to play with her if she bites) but none of it works. Fending her off just gives her another hand to go for.

I’ve found a trainer but she’s on holiday and I’ll probably need to wait until Oenny’s had her second vaccine

[Ran]

8 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Does anyone have any tips re training her not to bite?

When she’s got a lot of energy and wants to play, she keeps going for hands and feet, mouthing and biting. She’s being ‘playful’ but it’s something I need to put a stop to, especially as we’ve got a 5 year old.

It can be very tough for puppies in particular to begin with, because mouthing things is kind of a major way for them to explore and feel their environment as they're growing.

Labs are fairly "soft" dogs, so if she's mouthing at you, yeah, try making a yelp or cry sound and see if that gets her to break -- and then praise her when she does do so. It will take awhile for her to understand, so you need patience, and I'd suggest limiting your daughter's play with her until  you've got a handle on it. She can snuggle her and so on, but as soon as the puppy starts trying to mouth her just part them.

Sometimes, that hyperactive behavior is a sign of an over-tired puppy, too, so sometimes it makes sense to just leave her alone and see if she conks out. (Of course, it can also be a sign of an understimulated puppy! If it just woke up from a nap, yeah, it has a lot of energy to burn. If it's been awhile since it napped, it probably will do so if opportunity for amusement is reduced.)

Also, besides the hand going limp, it's more important to not turn getting at your hand/feet into a game -- don't just jerk away, she'll just try and chase after it as if it were a toy. Consider offering an alternative -- a chew toy or something, a rope toy that you can play some tug of war with if she wants -- as another approach.

Finally, you mention going away doesn't work -- you could always have a pen or something for her, but try to use it sparingly as a solution, rather than as the default for whenever she misbehaves. Treat it as a brief time out, like you'd do for a child.

 

 

[Which Tyler]

35 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

She’s been more active this morning.

Does anyone have any tips re training her not to bite?

When she’s got a lot of energy and wants to play, she keeps going for hands and feet, mouthing and biting. She’s being ‘playful’ but it’s something I need to put a stop to, especially as we’ve got a 5 year old.

I’ve looked online but the advice I’ve seen (yelp sonshe knows its sore, make hand go limp so she lets go, go away and refuse to play with her if she bites) but none of it works. Fending her off just gives her another hand to go for.

I’ve found a trainer but she’s on holiday and I’ll probably need to wait until Oenny’s had her second vaccine

As Ran says, mouthing is a pup's way of exploring the world. You've already found most of the advice, so it's mostly a case of persisting, and remembering to reward neutral behaviour*.

Over-react as if in pain, remove any and all attention (and the nipped finger/toe - calmly and pointedly) for like 3-5 seconds, and with double the attention as a "reward" for not biting whilst she didn't have the chance - and probably over-react and remove again 1-2 seconds later.
Keep repeating this, and she'll learn. And accept that it'll take time - like several months, because she'll have to relearn each day.

The other thing is to distract - get out her favourite toy** - let her know that it's okay to bite that as much as she likes.

Fending her away is making a game of the bite, and a reward for doing so.

 

 

 

* I take it Penny is your first dog?
One of the most important behaviours to reward, especially for something like a Lab, is "settle". When she's nice and calm, awake, but just not doing anything - casually and calmly, drop a treat near her nose - say "settle" when she notices it and gobbles it up.

** On which, the best toys at this age would be:
1. Straight Kong - which she can munch on as much as she likes, especially if you've put some cheese, peanut butter or pouch etc in there; this gives her some calm time as well. These can really help with "settle" too, and is always our go-to when we need to pay attention to the trainer at puppy school.
2. Home-made rope toy - any old fleecey type rug or throw; cut into 1-2" wide strips, full length, and then braid them together. Nice and soft for her mouth, dirt cheap, easily replaced, and brilliant interaction for you and her.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Which Tyler