Daeron the Daring Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 6:54 AM, Jaenara Belarys said: POLYGAMY: Polygamy hasn't been done since Maegor the Cruel, and I'm sure that Rhaegar didn't want that parallel coming about Well, if you assume Rhaegar aimed to have the 3 heads of the dragon as his own children, then poligamy certainly wasn't a problem, as he planned to marry both his daughters to his son anyway. I tend to believe Jon is legitimate in the sense that he is the product of a poligamious union. Not because I want Jon to be the true heir to any titles and lands, but because he hates being a bastard, and always wanted to be legitimate. As of who would see such an union a valid one is up to debate? Daenerys? Most likely. Anyone else? Not really. The guy would be a child from a poligamious union (where such a thing isn't usual), and a follower of the Old Gods. In no way he would be a logical option to any southron lord or peasant. But I'm okay if it only matters to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 9 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: Clearly not because Jon/Arya is the one true ship! Oh my God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 8 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Never, traitor! Jonerys is the only way forward! Jonerys who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said: Well, if you assume Rhaegar aimed to have the 3 heads of the dragon as his own children, then poligamy certainly wasn't a problem, as he planned to marry both his daughters to his son anyway. we don't know if Rhaegar wanted his children to marry. as far as we know he thought 3 dragons were needed to do something and play a part in something. even the fact that these dragons should be siblings is an assumption of Dany and us . Jon's hatred of being a bastard stems from his belief that Ned and in his mind his mother were ashamed of him and that he has no real place . if he'd be Rhaegar and Lyanna's bastard those two will be solved : he would realize that Ned wanted to protect him and that's why he never talked to him about his mother. and he would know that his real father not only wasn't ashamed of having him but he effectively had planed to have another child and had an important role for that child in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Jonerys who? Whaddaya mean "Jonerys who"? Jon and Daenerys, that's who! 7 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said: Well, if you assume Rhaegar aimed to have the 3 heads of the dragon as his own children, then poligamy certainly wasn't a problem, as he planned to marry both his daughters to his son anyway. Which would have still been a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thandros Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I'm pretty sure R+L=J is true. Every other possibility just strikes me as way too unlikely. The details are uncertain and I suspect to a point we'll never find out exactly what happened and why it did for the simple reason that everyone who might have known is dead. Howland Reed is likely the only living soul with even part of the picture and even then he likely doesn't have a clue about why Rhaegar did it. It doesn't appear to be the most intelligent decision but we're missing most of the details so we can't even say what the truth even was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Which would have still been a mess. No doubt. 7 hours ago, EggBlue said: Jon's hatred of being a bastard stems from his belief that Ned and in his mind his mother were ashamed of him and that he has no real place . if he'd be Rhaegar and Lyanna's bastard those two will be solved : he would realize that Ned wanted to protect him and that's why he never talked to him about his mother. and he would know that his real father not only wasn't ashamed of having him but he effectively had planed to have another child and had an important role for that child in the future. Jon's hatred of bastardhood comes from the nature of bastardhood. He had a pretty good life as a bastard, he surely could've had even better, but he doesn't hate being a bastard because he doesn't know his mother's name but because he is stripped of everything others around him naturally have. Noone would want to be a bastard when he could be a legitimate child as well. If, let's say, Eddard was to tell Jon his mother's name or anything about her, wouldn't Jon still want to be legitimate? That knowledge doesn't give him any more than ehat it actually is, no matter how much it may mean. It could definitely mean a lot to someone who never knew it, but it doesn't give him back anything bastardhood takes away. Just as he wanted to accept Stannis' offer to become Lord of Winterfell. He didn't offer him his mother's name or the characteristics of the woman, just a life where he could live how he always wanted to. That he didn't accept the offer tells much about him, but doesn't make it any less charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 3:54 AM, Lord Lannister said: Clearly not because Jon/Arya is the one true ship! On 10/26/2021 at 4:13 AM, Jaenara Belarys said: Never, traitor! Jonerys is the only way forward! Please no, these are abominations, specially the Jonerys. This makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 21 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Whaddaya mean "Jonerys who"? Jon and Daenerys, that's who! You're being serious? I thought you were joking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: You're being serious? I thought you were joking! Pretty sure @Jaenara Belarys was joking. I know I was. Though Jonerys, Jonsa and Jarya are all things with some fans. Which was what we were poking fun at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Willam Stark said: Please no, these are abominations, specially the Jonerys. 4 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: You're being serious? I thought you were joking! I do actually want Jon x Daenerys, so yes I was serious. Kind of. 2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: Pretty sure @Jaenara Belaerys was joking It's @Jaenara Belarys, . I misspelled the last name wrong when I was signing up, so...no "e". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 39 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: It's @Jaenara Belarys, . I misspelled the last name wrong when I was signing up, so...no "e". Apologies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said: Apologies! 'Tis fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 22 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said: Jon's hatred of bastardhood comes from the nature of bastardhood. He had a pretty good life as a bastard, he surely could've had even better, but he doesn't hate being a bastard because he doesn't know his mother's name but because he is stripped of everything others around him naturally have. Noone would want to be a bastard when he could be a legitimate child as well. If, let's say, Eddard was to tell Jon his mother's name or anything about her, wouldn't Jon still want to be legitimate? That knowledge doesn't give him any more than ehat it actually is, no matter how much it may mean. It could definitely mean a lot to someone who never knew it, but it doesn't give him back anything bastardhood takes away. yes that is partly hatred of the nature of bastardhood but his very initial problem was with Ned and his shame.. so the way I see it his feelings could largely be resolved by knowing his parents and the status his real father had in mind for him. of course my opinion towards this certain part of the story might be a bit biased. you see I have this utter hatred towards polygamy even in a fantasy world that makes me hope Jon is not legitimate even though he is one of my favorite characters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, EggBlue said: yes that is partly hatred of the nature of bastardhood but his very initial problem was with Ned and his shame.. so the way I see it his feelings could largely be resolved by knowing his parents and the status his real father had in mind for him. of course my opinion towards this certain part of the story might be a bit biased. you see I have this utter hatred towards polygamy even in a fantasy world that makes me hope Jon is not legitimate even though he is one of my favorite characters! Do you mind if I ask you where are you from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 58 minutes ago, Willam Stark said: Do you mind if I ask you where are you from ? Iran... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northern_amnesia Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I don't think he is, I'm positive that he wanted to start a war with the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 36 minutes ago, EggBlue said: Iran... I was thinking about Saudi Arabia, I guess I'll sleep less silly tonight, thanks for sharing. Anyways the polygamous marriages are forbidden in the Faith of Seven or the Religion of The Old Golds, so this wouldn't work if Rhaegar wanted to make Jon his legitimate child and Lyanna his legitimate wife. Besides Lyanna is not the kind of woman who would like to share her husband with another woman, a lovestruck prince is perfectly capable to set aside the wife he doesn't love for the woman he loves. It is a dumb and dangerous move, but as far as I'm concerned, Rhaegar is not a great schemer, it shouldn't surprise anyone if it happened that way. I'm not saying it's a fact of course, but this is what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Willam Stark said: the Religion of The Old Golds Beyond the Wall there are polygamous marriages. 7 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: I do actually want Jon x Daenerys, so yes I was serious. Kind of. Why do you hate Jon? 8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: Pretty sure @Jaenara Belarys was joking. I know I was. Though Jonerys, Jonsa and Jarya are all things with some fans. Which was what we were poking fun at. At least you were joking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Why do you hate Jon? Why do you think I hate Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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