Larry of the Lawn Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 When Biden was picking a VP everyone made a big deal out of how this VP had to be someone you were really ok with being president, because Biden is, you know, really really old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: George W. Bush won his office on a wing and a prayer, yet he governed with all the powers of the president. Trump lost the popular vote, was impeached twice, and he did the same. Kamala Harris would have no less a mandate than they had. As much as I personally dislike 43 and 45. They both actually ran for that office, and actually got for whatever reason tens of millions of votes to be president. So how many people did vote for Harris to be President? A couple of hundred write ins? So I disagree with your assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: As much as I personally dislike 43 and 45. They both actually ran for that office, and actually got for whatever reason tens of millions of votes to be president. So how many people did vote for Harris to be President? A couple of hundred write ins? So I disagree with your assessment. Literally everyone who voted for Biden voted for Harris. I dislike the idea of Biden running with the intention of resigning early but the idea that the VP isn't elected in that scenario is demonstrably false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, 1066 Larry said: Literally everyone who voted for Biden voted for Harris. I dislike the idea of Biden running with the intention of resigning early but the idea that the VP isn't elected I'm that scenario is demonstrably false. I don't know which former VP described that post as the most useless one in American political system, but that's pretty much it, more of an afterthought to the office of POTUS. Harris happens to actually have some political use, as she gets to be the tie-breaker in the senate, if Manchin ever gets his head out of his ass. The campaign was pretty much decent guy Joe vs the crazy orange fascist. Harris against the lord of the fly (singular) didn't really play much of a role on the campaign. Fun test for you at home. There are now 46 US Presidents. I am sure you could name likesay 40 of those without breaking a sweat (yes, I am sure you could name all of them if you put some thought into it but that's not the point). Can you name as many VPs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, 1066 Larry said: Literally everyone who voted for Biden voted for Harris. I dislike the idea of Biden running with the intention of resigning early but the idea that the VP isn't elected in that scenario is demonstrably false. It was a big point against McCain, too. Palin as President was a really scary notion. And this was pre-Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 5 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said: It has happen fictionally on the West Wing 3 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said: Yeha, sorry, this is what I meant IheartlheartTesla--that Kamala couldn't be fired (so to speak). Of course, there is a West Wing quote that specifically addresses this. From the first season episode "20 Hours in LA" when VP Hoynes is threatening to cast a tiebreaking vote against the president's preference on an ethanol bill: Quote BARTLET: I'm running out of reasons not to fire him, Leo. LEO: Well, when you run out of reasons, the last reason is that you can't fire the Vice President. BARTLET: I can ask for his resignation, and don't be a smartass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: I don't know which former VP described that post as the most useless one in American political system John Nance Garner, FDR's first VP, described is as "not worth a bucket of warm piss." My favorite VP quote, though, is Daniel Webster's when he turned it down (also cited on West Wing) - "I do not propose to be buried until I am dead." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: As much as I personally dislike 43 and 45. They both actually ran for that office, and actually got for whatever reason tens of millions of votes to be president. So how many people did vote for Harris to be President? A couple of hundred write ins? So I disagree with your assessment. Mandates in politics are like talking about momentum in sports. They’re fun constructs, but they don’t really mean that much. Anyone in elected office through a legal avenue has a mandate to govern, however, what that mandate means is difficult to say. If Harris became president due to Biden stepping down she could pursue whatever policies she wanted. She just couldn’t argue that the people voted her into office to do X, Y and Z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Palin as President was a really scary notion. And this was pre-Trump. i like how corey robin's reactionary mind had an original subtitle 'conservatism from edmund burke to sarah palin,' but changed it to 'conservatism from edmund burke to donald trump' after he was elected for the second edition, as those two are the relevant latter bookends from their respective decades. Mandates in politics are like talking about momentum in sports. yeah, it's similar to the term 'common sense,' normally invoked when it allegedly is missing. mandates typically matter to no one except losers of elections in denying that the winner has earned one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, sologdin said: 'conservatism from edmund burke to sarah palin,' but changed it to 'conservatism from edmund burke to donald trump' That is a long, strange, and dark trip. Comparing Trump or Palin's conservatism to Burke is... I remember during my dissertation defense one of my advisors described my intro as "almost Burkean." The dissertation was on the bureaucracy and how their expertise impacts policymaking - which indeed is Burkean in regards to institutionalism and duty - but rather fundamentally anathema to Palin (figuratively) and Trump (literally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 To be clear, Harris wouldn't win in this environment or anything close to this environment. And there's a pretty reasonable chance that she wouldn't win in an actual election, either. She was one of the least popular candidates running in 2020 and has all the fun things of being not particularly progressive on crime, not being male or white, and not having a crazy amount of charisma. Her having a 'mandate' wouldn't matter, as most politicians of either side wouldn't support her on anything because it'd be political suicide to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 long, strange, and dark trip. that particular text is, yes. it lacks rigor at times, more a collection of observations than a rigorous history that covers that entire period. that said, i am unimpressed by burke's reflections. his ideas are feeble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, DMC said: That is a long, strange, and dark trip. You should see how many slightly modified dead quotes you can cram into a lecture sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, 1066 Larry said: You should see how many slightly modified dead quotes you can cram into a lecture sometime. LOL, challenge accepted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, DMC said: LOL, challenge accepted! Like Michael Keaton and TLC lyrics in that Will Ferrell cop movie but instead of "don't go chasing waterfalls" it's "drinking champagne from your boot for a taste of your elegant pride" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 minute ago, 1066 Larry said: Like Michael Keaton and TLC lyrics in that Will Ferrell cop movie but instead of "don't go chasing waterfalls" it's "drinking champagne from your boot for a taste of your elegant pride" It's gonna be tough to work in "we can share the women, we can share the wine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mance Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, DMC said: It's gonna be tough to work in "we can share the women, we can share the wine." Just pass if off as a Matt Gaetz quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Mance said: Just pass if off as a Matt Gaetz quote. Casey Jones has a number of quotes that could fit with that frat bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said: I don't know if the VP can be replaced until the next election. Biden could choose a different running mate at that time. This is definitely a weird story though. The President doesn’t have the power to remove a VP if that’s what you mean, however, the precedent set by Ford’s nomination and confirmation as Vice-President after Spiro Agnew’s resignation established that a VP can be replaced if they resign from office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: the precedent set by Ford’s nomination and confirmation as Vice-President after Spiro Agnew’s resignation established that a VP can be replaced if they resign from office. Well, it was established by Section 2 of the 25th. Ford's nomination and confirmation is just the first precedent of it actually being enacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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