Pat Rothfuss XVII: Games, Bets, and Minecraft

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

If he was innocent, he wouldn't be wracked by guilt as he is now. 

Precisely.  I think Kvothe’s story is the story of an antagonist… from the antagonist’s point of view.  So much of the story and the stories in the story involve the point of view of the storyteller.  I think that is the point of the entire story.  

I suspect the Beta readers haven’t liked it… and… that’s the cause of the delay.

[Ser Not Appearing]

I think the narrative has set up pretty well for Kvothe to do something rash and bullheaded without thought and probably on bad information and using powers he isn't allowed to ... only he won't get away with it because the stakes get ever higher.

He's a Lanre (Skarpi story version) far more than anything.

[Ser Not Appearing]

... of course, none of that matters if we don't get an end to the story and there's plenty of reason to question if we will.

I can deal with not getting any end to the story. It lowers him as an author in my eyes. And by a great amount. I'll be frustrated because I don't think it's entirely true or fair to say that authors owe nothing. There is a social contract that is made when you start a series and promise an end (and starting a series always promises and end to some degree) ... but I also agree with him not owing us something enough to be okay with it. He had his reasons, I move on. It'll be among the bigger literary disappointments I'll experience in my lifetime but ... that happens.

In the other hand, I think it's complete trash not to follow through on commitments you made to raise money for charity, however. That's quite shocking and hard to respect in any way, shape or form.

That said - I didn't donate so my take on it is ancillary at best. And I don't think he would care even if I had donated. It's all just a bit of hot air; important to me in that it plays a strong role in forming my own opinion ... but that's about it.

All in all? Same as it ever was.

[Gaston de Foix]

Yes, but not so long ago (a mere decade), Tor (who are not even his publishers) devoted tens of thousands of words by a Hugo and Nebula winning author to an obsessively detailed re-read and analysis of his books: https://www.tor.com/series/patrick-rothfuss-reread/

His books are like icebergs, there's a hell of a lot going on underneath the surface.  They reward rereading.  That's why, 11 years on, we are still arguing about him.  

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

suspect the Beta readers haven’t liked it… and… that’s the cause of the delay.

Ser Scott, why do you say that? Is there any info in the public domain?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

59 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Ser Scott, why do you say that? Is there any info in the public domain?

Nope personnal suspsion… nothing more.

[Rhom]

13 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Yes, but not so long ago (a mere decade), Tor (who are not even his publishers) devoted tens of thousands of words by a Hugo and Nebula winning author to an obsessively detailed re-read and analysis of his books: https://www.tor.com/series/patrick-rothfuss-reread/

His books are like icebergs, there's a hell of a lot going on underneath the surface.  They reward rereading.  That's why, 11 years on, we are still arguing about him.  

Ser Scott, why do you say that? Is there any info in the public domain?

I came late to the series and just read it a couple years ago.  I then immediately jumped into the reread you mention.  It was kind of sad to me to read her anticipation knowing where things stood regarding publishing.

[Gaston de Foix]

On 11/21/2022 at 10:09 AM, Rhom said:

I came late to the series and just read it a couple years ago.  I then immediately jumped into the reread you mention.  It was kind of sad to me to read her anticipation knowing where things stood regarding publishing.

If he never finishes the books, it's an interesting question what (a) continued literary merit of the books will be (unfinished books being almost a genre in themselves); (b) whether anyone will ever write a "fan-fic" ending for the story. 

I suspect that fantasy fans will not be reading the books 20-30 years from now because there is rarely a high demand for fantasy books published 20-30 years ago and because anyone who reads large doorstopper fantasies is almost by definition an obsessive reader with little patience for a story that goes nowhere.  There's also a lot of choice out there, and that initial enthusiasm for Rothfuss has dwindled and died.  Booksellers used to leave handwritten notes, telling us how much they enjoyed the books. 

That said, if he publishes a good third volume tomorrow or next year, I'm sure sales will pick back up!

[Kyll.Ing.]

Happy one-year anniversary of this thread, and by extension Rothfuss' Tweet!

Wait, not happy. The other thing.

[Ninefingers]

Looks like his annual fundraiser died a silent death too. 

It's always underway by December 1st, but total radio silence on that front this year. 

[Myrddin]

Even his blog has been quiet (since June). 

There's no distraction from his video games now!

ETA: I think I'd have more respect for him if he just up and announced he's retired. He's pretending to be writing. Everyone knows he's been pretending. He might as well just take his earnings and do what he wants (and is doing) anyway.

Who knows. Maybe without the pressure to produce, he might just find his muse again.  

Edited December 5, 2022 by Myrddin

[Ninefingers]

21 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Even his blog has been quiet (since June). 

 

Between this and the fundraiser, maybe we're actually seeing evidence that he's ashamed of his actions?

[Kyll.Ing.]

5 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

Between this and the fundraiser, maybe we're actually seeing evidence that he's ashamed of his actions?

Even if he was approaching it from an entirely cynical perspective, he'd probably assume that it'd be really bad PR to pretend everything was normal and start a new fundraiser without having delivered on the goals of the last one. Not only would the fans be in a frenzy, this would be the sort of thing that would receive media attention. So I guess the strategy is to lay down low, regardless of whether shame is part of it or not.

For the record, though, I think he's ashamed. It was a very high-profile announcement, of something that wouldn't seem like it would be hard to do (I mean, coughing up one chapter of a book he has ostensibly been writing for ten years?), and yet he failed. That's gotta be a real smack in the confidence right there.

[Gaston de Foix]

41 minutes ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Even if he was approaching it from an entirely cynical perspective, he'd probably assume that it'd be really bad PR to pretend everything was normal and start a new fundraiser without having delivered on the goals of the last one. Not only would the fans be in a frenzy, this would be the sort of thing that would receive media attention. So I guess the strategy is to lay down low, regardless of whether shame is part of it or not.

For the record, though, I think he's ashamed. It was a very high-profile announcement, of something that wouldn't seem like it would be hard to do (I mean, coughing up one chapter of a book he has ostensibly been writing for ten years?), and yet he failed. That's gotta be a real smack in the confidence right there.

Perhaps the more interesting question is why he failed? I assume that he's got a number of chapters written of Book 3 in at least draft form, and publishing a chapter wouldn't restrict him from revising it in the future.  GRRM's revealed chapters from TWOW are not great, and one of them contains a minor error IIRC. 

So it is only understandable, I think, as a reflection of anxiety/neuroses about public reception towards that chapter.  Crippling, self-defeating anxiety. 

I'm not a therapist, but if I were in that situation I would try to mitigate the effects of that anxiety by sharing that chapter with my editors/beta readers/friends and asking them whether the chapter was good enough to be published, and how it might be improved.  I might set a deadline for myself and promise that I would publish it on that date no matter what.  And then I would use the time in-between to revise as best I could.  I would try to take small, concrete steps that helped meet my target.  I guess my question is, why isn't Rothfuss doing any of this?

[Lord Patrek]

Imagine for a moment whether or not Lackey was right and the manuscript has gone to his editor, and he can't deliver the promised extract because the novel is going through the editing process.

Quite a stretch, I know. But I did contact Betsy a few weeks ago about something else and mentioned that deep in my heart I hoped that Lackey was right, and she never got back to me.

So. . . You never know.

[Gaston de Foix]

10 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

Imagine for a moment whether or not Lackey was right and the manuscript has gone to his editor, and he can't deliver the promised extract because the novel is going through the editing process.

 

That's...an amount of hopium I'm not quite prepared to inject into my veins. 

I defer to you on the book publishing process, but don't you think the commercial pressure on Rothfuss, on Ms. Wollheim, on the publishers, is such that there would be an announcement if they had a manuscript that they felt could be sufficiently revised within x number of months? 

[Ser Not Appearing]

While there's cause to be cynical, I think not starting a new fundraiser is actually praiseworthy. It means that he's aware of and self-conscious of the missing deliverables. It adds a bit of humanity back to the mix. And (from the outside) that had been bleeding off little by little over time.

All else equal, which as far as we know it is, not doing another fundraiser is a positive development.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[Werthead]

51 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

That's...an amount of hopium I'm not quite prepared to inject into my veins. 

I defer to you on the book publishing process, but don't you think the commercial pressure on Rothfuss, on Ms. Wollheim, on the publishers, is such that there would be an announcement if they had a manuscript that they felt could be sufficiently revised within x number of months? 

Apparently there was a semi-complete manuscript with beta readers as long ago as 2013, so we can only assume it was so terrible or functionally incomplete that he had to embark on some kind of massive rewrite of the whole thing, maybe from scratch. Maybe they're worried about the same thing happening again, so are saying nothing?

[Lord Patrek]

Remember that Scott Lynch turned in a manuscript years ago and we have yet to see that novel. Could that Wert is right and that the current ms needs so much work that they're not about to commit to a timeframe for publishing it.

[Werthead]

The Lynch situation is different in that the manuscript was submitted and apparently the revisions completed or almost so, and Scott then suffered health issues that prevented him from pushing the button on sending it, basically, and he's recently taken medication steps to try to resolve that issue and get both the book and various short stories and novellas he's been sitting on out the door as well.

The situation with Rothfuss has always been somewhat more inexplicable.

[Ninefingers]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:17 AM, Ser Not Appearing said:

While there's cause to be cynical, I think not starting a new fundraiser is actually praiseworthy. It means that he's aware of and self-conscious of the missing deliverables. It adds a bit of humanity back to the mix. And (from the outside) that had been bleeding off little by little over time.

All else equal, which as far as we know it is, not doing another fundraiser is a positive development.

I largely agree, although his reasoning behind the cancellation (which we can't know) is the real key here. If it's:

A. "I need to cancel this year's fundraiser because it would be ridiculous to aske people to buy in on more promises after my actions"

then I agree, it's overwhelmingly positive. But if it's more:

B. "I need to cancel because the jerks on twitter will be relentless and ruin things because I'm a little late."

then I'm not sure things have improved.