Wolfcrow Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 According to ironborn legend, Nagga was the first sea dragon, able to feed on krakens and leviathans and drown islands when angry. The Grey King, helped by the Drowned God, managed to slay her on the shores of the island Old Wyk and built there his hall out of her bones. Her jaws became his throne and her teeth made his crown. He warmed his hall with her living fire. However, when the Grey King died, the Storm God drowned out her fire and the sea took the throne. Only her bones that made the pillars and beams remain. The thing, if she was a sea dragon, why fire? We have been said that ice dragons spit ice, the dragons we know are connected with fire and they spit fire, so why Nagga had fire? And how was she drowning islands if she had fire? This is where I first thought of Grey ghost. Grey Ghost was a wild dragon that dwelt in a smoking vent high on the desolate eastern side of the volcano called Dragonmont. He was a pale grey-white, the color of morning mist. He was a notably shy dragon who avoided men and their works for years at a time. He preferred to feed on fish and was often glimpsed flying low over the narrow sea, snatching prey from the waters. If they hadn't see a dragon before, but knew stories about them, when they saw Naggs were like: "Oh, a sea dragon!". We already know that Hightowers and other figures from the Reach had slayed dragons so in this part of Westeros at this point of the timeline for sure we had dragons. The second question came after though, why there? Nagga, maybe, like Grey ghost was shy and didn't like people and up to this point iron islands didn't have humans or other creatures, but we know there were other dragons in this part of the world, why? Wild dragons, tend to go in volcanoes. Canibal, Sheepstealer and Grey Ghost was in Dragonstone, in fourteen flames again there were dragons even before Valyrians. Other stories say about Asshai and islands on the jade sea and again it makes sense, Marahai is an island there and it has two volcanoes, so why there are so many Legends about dragons in Western Westeros? The dragons killed in Tarth and in Craclaw it's logical, Dragonstone is really close and the dragons were flying there too. We know that Nagga, most likely, was visible from sea dragon's point, thus she was flying over the sea and areas around, so we don't need many places for them to stay, we need one that is easy for them to fly either North (since she was visible there when she was flying over the sea and eating), but also to be close to Reach (since many dragons were killed there). Iron Islands is a place like that, and we know that Nagga was killed there, so she probably was living there. Now, a small fact about me, is that I am greek from a place close to Methana and the first thing I thought, when I was watching the map was: "Oh Great Wyk and Old Wyk look like Thyra and Nea Kameni", but it didn't hit me there. It hit me after some time, when I had a "wait a goddamn second" moment, Nisyros and Kos and Milos with the islands around it, also look like that and all of them are volcanic islands. In general, the horse shoe shape it's pretty often (not necessary, but common) in volcanic islands and GRRM had done it in another island inside the AWOIAF, Marahai. Marahai is a crescent-shaped island in the central Jade Sea and within its curvature are two small volcanic isles which often emit smoke and flame, so Martin is familiar with this concept. Back on iron islands, windy hills and cruel black mountains make up much of Old Wyk and Nagga's hill is located on it. Like in Santorini (nea kameni) and in Nisyros (in Nysiros and not in Kos) and in Marahai in our story, the Volcanoes are in the smaller island inside or close to the arc. The places the volcanos are located are rocky and many times the rocks found around them are darker coloured (obviously it depends on the volcano and geographical place, the geology of the ground etc etc, but it's common), Nea Kameni looks like this and Nisyros like this, even not as black, the moutains are harsher with minimal plant life around it, so combine these two and you have hills and cruel black mountains. If they never knew the activity of the volcano and it's not active for thousand years (the one in Nisyros is walkable, you can enter the crater and there are no fumes etc etc.) it'spossible they don't even know the islands are volcanic ones. But the dragons could ,99%, sence it and that is why they were there. And it makes sence on why ,they never had children and giants there and they thought it cursed. This is it, just a small thought I had and I found interesting. Edit: As I said in the comments, I think Nagga's bones are the weirwood longship too, but I believe there was a dragon at some point, bc we have many dragon stories in general in these areas. Through time the stories, kinda, mushed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said: According to ironborn legend, Nagga was the first sea dragon, able to feed on krakens and leviathans and drown islands when angry. The Grey King, helped by the Drowned God, managed to slay her on the shores of the island Old Wyk and built there his hall out of her bones. Her jaws became his throne and her teeth made his crown. He warmed his hall with her living fire. However, when the Grey King died, the Storm God drowned out her fire and the sea took the throne. Only her bones that made the pillars and beams remain. The thing, if she was a sea dragon, why fire? We have been said that ice dragons spit ice, the dragons we know are connected with fire and they spit fire, so why Nagga had fire? And how was she drowning islands if she had fire? This is where I first thought of Grey ghost. Grey Ghost was a wild dragon that dwelt in a smoking vent high on the desolate eastern side of the volcano called Dragonmont. He was a pale grey-white, the color of morning mist. He was a notably shy dragon who avoided men and their works for years at a time. He preferred to feed on fish and was often glimpsed flying low over the narrow sea, snatching prey from the waters. If they hadn't see a dragon before, but knew stories about them, when they saw Naggs were like: "Oh, a sea dragon!". We already know that Hightowers and other figures from the Reach had slayed dragons so in this part of Westeros at this point of the timeline for sure we had dragons. The second question came after though, why there? Nagga, maybe, like Grey ghost was shy and didn't like people and up to this point iron islands didn't have humans or other creatures, but we know there were other dragons in this part of the world, why? Wild dragons, tend to go in volcanoes. Canibal, Sheepstealer and Grey Ghost was in Dragonstone, in fourteen flames again there were dragons even before Valyrians. Other stories say about Asshai and islands on the jade sea and again it makes sense, Marahai is an island there and it has two volcanoes, so why there are so many Legends about dragons in Western Westeros? The dragons killed in Tarth and in Craclaw it's logical, Dragonstone is really close and the dragons were flying there too. We know that Nagga, most likely, was visible from sea dragon's point, thus she was flying over the sea and areas around, so we don't need many places for them to stay, we need one that is easy for them to fly either North (since she was visible there when she was flying over the sea and eating), but also to be close to Reach (since many dragons were killed there). Iron Islands is a place like that, and we know that Nagga was killed there, so she probably was living there. Now, a small fact about me, is that I am greek from a place close to Methana and the first thing I thought, when I was watching the map was: "Oh Great Wyk and Old Wyk look like Thyra and Nea Kameni", but it didn't hit me there. It hit me after some time, when I had a "wait a goddamn second" moment, Nisyros and Kos and Milos with the islands around it, also look like that and all of them are volcanic islands. In general, the horse shoe shape it's pretty often (not necessary, but common) in volcanic islands and GRRM had done it in another island inside the AWOIAF, Marahai. Marahai is a crescent-shaped island in the central Jade Sea and within its curvature are two small volcanic isles which often emit smoke and flame, so Martin is familiar with this concept. Back on iron islands, windy hills and cruel black mountains make up much of Old Wyk and Nagga's hill is located on it. Like in Santorini (nea kameni) and in Nisyros (in Nysiros and not in Kos) and in Marahai in our story, the Volcanoes are in the smaller island inside or close to the arc. The places the volcanos are located are rocky and many times the rocks found around them are darker coloured (obviously it depends on the volcano and geographical place, the geology of the ground etc etc, but it's common), Nea Kameni looks like this and Nisyros like this, even not as black, the moutains are harsher with minimal plant life around it, so combine these two and you have hills and cruel black mountains. If they never knew the activity of the volcano and it's not active for thousand years (the one in Nisyros is walkable, you can enter the crater and there are no fumes etc etc.) it'spossible they don't even know the islands are volcanic ones. But the dragons could ,99%, sence it and that is why they were there. And it makes sence on why ,they never had children and giants there and they thought it cursed. This is it, just a small thought I had and I found interesting. I like the idea that Nagga was a Weirwood boat that's been overturned and used as a Long Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2909 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: I like the idea that Nagga was a Weirwood boat that's been overturned and used as a Long Hall. I thought that was Ygg the 'demon tree'/Nagga's ribs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcrow Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: I like the idea that Nagga was a Weirwood boat that's been overturned and used as a Long Hall. I am pretty sure Nagga's bones are the Weirwood longship, but I also believe that Nagga was real too and the stories kinda mushed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcrow Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 Just now, Falcon2909 said: I thought that was Ygg the 'demon tree'/Nagga's ribs I am pretty sure Nagga's bones are the Weirwood longship, but I also believe that Nagga was real too and the stories kinda mushed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Falcon2909 said: I thought that was Ygg the 'demon tree'/Nagga's ribs Yea I took Ygg to be who was struck by Lightening and carved up into a ship. This being a clue to some one birthing fire magic from the magic of the Trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcrow Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Yea I took Ygg to be who was struck by Lightening and carved up into a ship. This being a clue to some one birthing fire magic from the magic of the Trees If their longships are like viking one and they had curved dragons, they must had seen a dragon at some point, this is why I think both stories are real and mixed together. Vikings had dragons on their mind, bc they were not real, but in asoiaf they are. So, you have seen one if you are able to curve one out of wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said: If their longships are like viking one and they had curved dragons, they must had seen a dragon at some point, this is why I think both stories are real and mixed together. Vikings had dragons on their mind, bc they were not real, but in asoiaf they are. So, you have seen one if you are able to curve one out of wood. Why would the Iron born being like the Vikings? Wouldn't the Andals (Vandals) be closer to the Vikings? Im not sure just because Vikings had dragons on their ships mean that pirates in ASOIAF have to have dragons on theirs. They may have, but that rational isn't something I would use as evidence towards it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 I like the connection to volcanoes. I have had the thought that a lot of weirwood sites seem to be on small islands, that perhaps were meteor impact sites. Maybe they're linked to the volcanoes as well... https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3171-earths-volcanism-linked-to-meteorite-impacts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said: I like the connection to volcanoes. I have had the thought that a lot of weirwood sites seem to be on small islands, that perhaps were meteor impact sites. Maybe they're linked to the volcanoes as well... https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3171-earths-volcanism-linked-to-meteorite-impacts/ Yes, I think sea dragons are volcanic mounts. Possibly caused by meteor impacts. Dragonstone is such a place and I think Braavos is as well. The Smoking Sea could be a large impact site. Or a super-volcano like Yellowstone. Planetos is certainly geologically active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcrow Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said: Why would the Iron born being like the Vikings? Wouldn't the Andals (Vandals) be closer to the Vikings? Im not sure just because Vikings had dragons on their ships mean that pirates in ASOIAF have to have dragons on theirs. They may have, but that rational isn't something I would use as evidence towards it. I am pretty sure GRRM has said at some point ironborn ships are inspired by viking ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2909 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said: I am pretty sure Nagga's bones are the Weirwood longship, but I also believe that Nagga was real too and the stories kinda mushed together. Yes, Nagga's ribs are the remains of a weirwood longship - and this longship was made from Ygg the demon tree (giant weirwood) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcrow Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 58 minutes ago, Falcon2909 said: Yes, Nagga's ribs are the remains of a weirwood longship - and this longship was made from Ygg the demon tree (giant weirwood) Actually, I think the weirwood was in Sea dragon point and it was Ygg, but the actual name of the ship was Nagga. And that would explaine why the story got mixed it's Nagga's (ship) boning, not Nagga's (dragon) bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egged Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I think Ygg was the original Hightower, made of timber, so it may have been made of weirwood timber. Hightower's sigil is a white tower with red flames above, which is weirwood-ish. Uthor of the Hightower, Hugor of the Hill, fourty four masts on Nagga's hill, Hugor's four four mighty sons armored in iron plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Settle it right here and now. What color are the ribs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egged Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 59 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: Settle it right here and now. What color are the ribs? Quote On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. Also there is a precedent for it: Quote The burning gods cast a pretty light, wreathed in their robes of shifting flame, red and orange and yellow. Septon Barre had once told Davos how they'd been carved from the masts of the ships that had carried the first Targaryens from Valyria. Over the centuries, they had been painted and repainted, gilded, silvered, jeweled. "Their beauty will make them more pleasing to R'hllor," Melisandre said when she told Stannis to pull them down and drag them out the castle gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 The point of Nagga is just symbolism for Dany's dragon Drogon being second lifed and "turned" by Euron. Each part of the story has a specific symbolic point, for example the bones becoming the great stone hall (the ribs are arches basically) is a parallel of Euron's soul taking residence inside Drogon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 9 hours ago, Egged said: Also there is a precedent for it: There you go--it's weirwood trees. Dragon bone is black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Naw, Nagga was a ship built from wierwoods. Those ribs of hers are the petrified remains of the ancient hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcrow Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Curled Finger said: There you go--it's weirwood trees. Dragon bone is black. I have a tinfoily theory about the dragonbone btw. The bones we have it's ship skeleton not Naggas, for sure. Actually it makes perfect sense to name the ship after Nagga symbolicaly and the story mushed together after. It was Nagga's (ship) boning, not Nagga's (dragon) ribbs. If the stories about the crown and the hall are true, i am guessing they were black. House Greyiron's sigil is a depiction of the sea king and tbh, im betting it's Grey king before he turned fully grey and he has a black crown, not a white one. And the living fire it's kinda sus for a sea dragon. For these I am quite sure. But now please be open minded and put your tinfoil hat on. Quote "And when battle was joined upon the shores, mighty kings and famous warriors fell before the reavers like wheat before a scythe, in such numbers that the men of the green lands told each other that the ironborn were demons risen from some watery hell, protected by fell sorceries and possessed of foul black weapons that drank the very souls of those they slew." "Dragonbone is black because of its high iron content, the book told him. It is strong as steel, yet lighter and far more flexible, and of course utterly impervious to fire." If they had the skeleton, i think, they put it in a good use and made weapons. They still use dragonbone for this purpose, Dothraki use it in their bows and it's expensive as shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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